posted on December 21, 2001 12:58:04 PM new
I have recently set up the www.AboutPayPal.org website. I am a German journalist who has been using PayPal, which I have come to regret.
I now intend to write and publish more about PayPal, which is why the website I have created is named AboutPayPal.org.
For the benefit of the public, I would like to specifically report on court cases against PayPal.
Anybody who has initiated or, even better, won cases against PayPal is invited to send me as much information as ever possible.
My address details can be found on my web site: http://www.aboutpaypal.org/
posted on December 21, 2001 01:15:49 PM newAnybody who has initiated or, even better, won cases against PayPal
daniellu, seems you only want the worst cases, not the ones that sued and lost or the frauds against Paypal or the cases that were resolved amicably. Do you have an agenda? Doesn't seem that you are trying to be very objective.
posted on December 21, 2001 01:40:03 PM new
"Worst cases" from who's perspective?
I am definitely interested in cases where PayPal clients sued and lost.
Fraud against PayPal isn't so much the topic of my articles. I believe that PayPal, just as any other financial institution, are responsible to have in place a sensible fraud protection program.
Based on my own experience, the topic of my articles is .... well, please check my website: www.AboutPayPal.org
Of course PayPal would be much happier if I as a journalist were to write about how poor PayPal is victimized by gangsters.
But actually, PayPal themselves have very active PR staff who already take care that such information reaches the public. Are you one of them?
I want to write articles about court cases that have been brought against PayPal by presumably honest people who felt victimized by PayPal.
posted on December 21, 2001 07:20:51 PM new
Damon,
the mail from PayPal which triggered me to set up the website http://www.AboutPayPal.org did not say: “You had accessed from many countries we do not service, which does raise fraud flags in our system.”
It said: “Following an investigation, this account has been permanently locked
due to violations of our Terms of Use. This decision may not be appealed.”
Now, I’m neither a native speaker of the English language, nor a trained linguist. But to the best of my understanding the above two-liner informed me that PayPal had just confiscated my funds, and that I couldn’t even appeal.”
I did try to appeal by sending numerous emails. None, except the first one to you, were answered by a human being.
But for the moment, never mind my private case. This message board thread is about court cases against PayPal, and I don’t want it to degenerate into discussing my own problems with PayPal.
I have sent numerous mails to PayPal, and I have sent mail to you. I request that these mails are answered as replies to my email address, not as postings on AuctionWatch.
I assume you have my email address. It is included on my www.AboutPayPal.org website, together with information on my personal background.
As posting on AuctionWatch.com requires the registration of a credit card, not everybody who wants to may be able or willing to reply with a AuctionWatch message. Sending me email through my website does not require any form of registering.
I assume that people whom I request to give me information on court cases will also not necessarily post that information in a public forum. Again, my www.AboutPayPal.org domain includes the necessary information on how to contact me directly. There is also a published Privacy Policy.
posted on December 21, 2001 07:45:59 PM new
Damon, I have a question.
Some people have been getting e-mails (like in this case) that say that they have violated the Terms of Use and their accounts are permanently locked and the decision can not be appealed (even if they didn't violate the TOU). Do you then keep the money in those accounts forever?
posted on December 21, 2001 08:01:43 PM new
RIGHT ON ...daniellu..........if you gather any new info .... please pass it on to me....also visit "PAYPAL WARNING"....just copy that and paste it on a search engine......i use google search engine myself........the author of this site is also a reporter..........he is gathering info on the horrible expierences that international and domestic users have had with paypal ........spread the word ....around the world.....
posted on December 22, 2001 12:04:44 AM new
Andrew,
I think you raised an important question. The way I understand “permanently locked”, I (and others who received such mails) wont get any money back. After all, “permanently” means forever, and “locked” would have to be understood as meaning that there would be no more movement on the account.
My impression is that PayPal are proud of their terms of use. I am of this opinion because it seems that they believe they have covered any conceivable situation. Their Help directory is huge and based on their terms of use. Furthermore, their customer service replies read as if a corporate lawyer, not a person with a genuine interest to be of service, drafted them.
Alas, their Terms of Use (the version I downloaded after I received that famous two-liner from PayPal) contains no reference to permanently locking an account, and the letter sequence “appeal” is not found in the whole document (just use the Windows “Find on this Page” function; in my version of their Terms of Use, the letter sequence doesn’t occur).
I am currently writing an article on their attitude of permanently locking accounts. I would be interested to communicate with anybody who received email from PayPal that included the following wording (both phrases or either of them): “this account has been permanently locked…This decision may not be appealed.”
I would prefer email sent directly to me, rather than replies posted on AuctionWatch. Information on my background, my problems with PayPal, as well as my email address can be found on my website: www.AboutPayPal.org
posted on December 22, 2001 02:46:09 PM new
If you live in Germany I don't know how well this would work but I would suggest filing an insurance claim through Travelers's Insurance. If that doesn't work, if you can, I would suggest trying to arbitrate it in writing.
Traveler's Insurance is for unauthorized account access issues only. Please review the terms of the insurance program.
In addition, the reasons for an account restriction can be found in the terms of use. Account restrictions are entirely resolvable with the assistance of the user.
Daniellu,
Your issue has been referred to account management. There is (apparently) some misunderstanding about how the county access issue should have been handled.
posted on December 22, 2001 07:10:58 PM new
I have just included a new article on PayPal's Terms of Use on AboutPayPal.org. The exact URL is:
http://www.aboutpaypal.org/terms_use.htm
I have not seen a provision on "permanently locked" accounts in your Terms of Use.
posted on December 22, 2001 09:55:53 PM new
Well, it seems Damon is avoiding my question. Anyway, daniellu, if you don't end up getting your issue resolved, PayPal saying your account is permanently locked is basically saying that PayPal, without your authorization, withdrew your account balance for themselves. Its at least worth a try. Otherwise, if it is allowed, try to arbitrate your case in writing. Of course, these two options should only be used as a resort, I certainly hope Damon can assist you in resolving your problem within PayPal. If that doesn't happen, however, I would suggest at least filing a claim. Someone (or so I read) once had their account restricted, PayPal ignored all his e-mails, and he filed a claim (with traveler's). Suddenly, PayPal unrestricted his account. (It was restricted again after he sent a nasty e-mail to PayPal scolding them, but at least he had the oppertunity to get his money out.)
posted on December 22, 2001 10:16:16 PM new
Andrew, you mention "if it is allowed, try to arbitrate your case in writing."
In further articles, I do want to focus on legal steps that have been taken, and I would like to report on actual experience of people who have taken such steps.
posted on December 23, 2001 09:58:42 AM new
I've never arbitrated anything, so I wouldn't know. PayPal says you have to go to arbitration, it depends on the arbitrator or another person in the system whether or not you get to in writing. I got my information from the PayPalWarning website. I guess that since it would be impractical to fly to California for most people than they (the national arbitration organization or whatever) would sometimes let you submit your case in writing instead of you having to be there, but I can not say for sure, since I've never had to do it.
[ edited by andrew123s on Dec 23, 2001 09:59 AM ]
posted on December 29, 2001 09:06:05 PM new
Andrew,
did you have problems with PayPal? I still need information on law cases brought against PayPal. My website AboutPayPal.org is dedicated to such information.
posted on December 29, 2001 09:06:08 PM new
Andrew,
did you have problems with PayPal? I still need information on law cases brought against PayPal. My website AboutPayPal.org is dedicated to such information.
posted on December 29, 2001 10:55:22 PM new
No, I have not had problems with PayPal, since I rarely use them anymore. When I do I keep my account at 0 and never use it to sell. My friend has, however (smaller ones that were eventually fixed). I stopped using PayPal when I found all the information from many web sites and hundreds of posts on many forums about problems with PayPal.
posted on December 29, 2001 11:36:26 PM new
I have same problem with PayPal, my account was restricted
PayPal stole my money from my account and restricted my account.
I was verified PayPal user since 2 years ago (first group PayPal users)
PayPal reversed two transactions from my account; all are eBay auction’s payments (in same day).
One transaction is from verified PayPal user, I shipped to verified address (now is called “confirmed address”) with FedEx, this user is still active in eBay; other transaction is from PayPal fund (non-credit card) from another eBay buyer, I shipped with FedEx as well!
I send numerous emails and spoke to PayPal CSR numerous times.
Finally I got one email replied from PayPal, they said the money would put back in my account in three business days (it was in September). After couple months, still no money back in my account. My account still was restricted.
I did post this complaint in here (auctionwatch). Paypaldamon said that he would look at it. But no further info since then. PayPal never replies my email anyhow!
Now, my account is not only restricted, When I try to login, it says “Permanently locked!” need to send email to [email protected], but they never response my emails!
[ edited by cgigate on Dec 29, 2001 11:48 PM ]
posted on January 1, 2002 05:23:58 PM new
Damon, can you please let everyone here know what is going on with this? You said you referred this to Account Management. That was over a week ago. I understand this is a holiday but what could be a better reason to give the money back to the owner? Is this how you (PayPal) deal with all account restriction issues? Just let them sit for weeks and hope the message will go away in the boards?
[ edited by andrew123s on Jan 1, 2002 05:24 PM ]
posted on January 3, 2002 11:56:45 AM new
paypaldamon
Could you follow my case? I have sent couple emails to you ([email protected]) but no response (except first one).
posted on January 9, 2002 09:49:13 PM new
Dear Daniellu
If you would like to know what a lawyer will tell you it's simple--it's expensive. This company relies on the fact that most of their customers cannot afford to spend $20,000.00 to get $2,000.00 back. Also if you notice their TOU state that binding arbritration is the way of settling disputes. This will be taken care of SOON. They have instituted proceedings against me and I have counter sued. It has caused me to hire 2 attorneys (incidently I guess my case it so important to them that they have 3 attorneys doing their dirty work)and has caused me to go into extreme debt to prove myself as an honest person. Incidentally at 59 yrs old this is the first time that I have had to prove my honesty. Besides them stealing money from me they have slandered me and done the best to turn my customers against me.
This is a paste for an article done about me in salon.com
"While I doubt this person [Brody] is engaged with the Russian mafia, I don't think [he and other e-Gold merchants] are totally innocent either," Thiel says. "They certainly know that much of the money they're receiving is from suspicious sources."
http://salon.com/tech/feature/2001/02/23/pay_pal/print.html
By the way he made a lopsided retraction but never apologised to me.
I will tell you that after this arbritration is over we will meet again in a court room.
My hope is that someday soon they will cease holding honest peoples money hostage and go after the real bad guys. I challenge all hosest people that have been hurt by them to send letters to their officials and see that their regulated like they should be.
posted on January 9, 2002 10:11:46 PM new
Club1man,
I am working on a rather lengthy article on the practical side of sueing PayPal, as well as claims for damages and compensation. When ready, it will be included on my domain www.AboutPayPal.org. I will post a message here when the article is accessible.
If you'd like to share some details with me, you can contact me through my email address: [email protected]
I sent a registered "Demand Paypment Letter" To Paypal and it was received by your legal department on December 24th. That was 10 days ago! A law student studying internet law at Akron University told me I would have to send this to show good faith. Well I tried! I want my money before your company goes "belly up"! In your estimate how long will this take? ... to get my money that is. Do you think I'll have to send the sheriff in to confiscate computers etc if your bank accounts are dry? Remember....you guys are the "Judgement Debtors" and I am the "Judgement Creditor". -joe-
