posted on January 19, 2004 11:16:38 PM new
Edited to take foot out of mouth.
It's probably Sheila's daughter.
I do not think the seller intended this to be "pornographic."
This thread should be closed, Mark,it's not going to be a good one.
J
[ edited by Japerton on Jan 19, 2004 11:19 PM ]
posted on January 19, 2004 11:17:07 PM new
Yellowstone, why don't you report them? Many of his listings should be in the mature audience category at the very least. I did not think full male frontal nudity was allowed in standard categaries.
And yes, I think this guy is pushing the child porn envelope as much he hypes "Child" and "youth" nudes in his titles.
Maybe he should be turned into the FBI site for that sort of thing.
posted on January 19, 2004 11:23:22 PM new
I don't want to report him to Ebay just yet.
I am seriously thinking about reporting him to the proper authorities first so they can at least see the auction and the images before they are pulled by Ebay.
posted on January 19, 2004 11:27:18 PM new
God! I think I know pornography when I see it. Pushing the envelope is right.
___________________________________
"I have resolved to allow my friends their peculiarities." -- Samuel Johnson
posted on January 19, 2004 11:55:15 PM new
You are going to report him to the FBI for selling a 13 year old coffee table book?
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
posted on January 19, 2004 11:59:11 PM new
While we are on the subject. This week local police in Callaway Florida arrested a guy for child porn. He had taken his system in for repair and the tech saw nude child images on his hard drive and turned him in.
I'm glad the pervert is off the streets, but I wonder what privacy laws were broken by the tech reporting this to the police and if the charges will hold up in court?
posted on January 20, 2004 12:20:55 AM new
We can go back and forth forever discussing what is art and what is pornography and no one is ever going to come to an agreement, we all know that.
I don't like that the seller is using the picture of the child to market his auction. The words "naked girls" in the title of the auction are meant to draw attention. I'm sure that those aren't the keywords that the average person looking to buy art or a coffee table book is going to punch into search. The seller also had other pictures to show besides the nude female but he chose the naked child.
I'm not a prude but I think some of these auctions should be in the adult section of ebay.
posted on January 20, 2004 07:44:02 AM new
Is it a 13 year old coffee table book or a book containing images of 13 year olds??
If the authors intent was to conjure deep thoughts from it's readers, well I can surely say that it had the desired effect on me. Looking into the face of this child I do not see happiness, joyfulness or glee. But rather I see unhappiness, sadness and embarrassment. She is obviously not happy with having her picture taken in the state of being unclothed or naked.
THIS IS NOT ART AND IT SHOULD BE DESTROYED. Nothing good can possibly come from photography that depicts children in an alluring and/or sexual manner. Instead it promotes a whole range of disgusting and heinous behaviors against them.
Look at what he wrote in another auction titled; Gymnasium gay yng male semi-nude boys rare
This is one of the most beautiful books I have ever gotten my hands on. It represents years of work by Smalley photographing young males, shirtless, in athletic, homoerotic situation. "Boys will be boys", is what he says in the introduction to his work as well as describing the essence of boyhood in which he tried to capture. This book is beautifully printed and chuck full of images. The guys are absolutely delicious.
If he feels that This is one of the most beautiful books he ever got his hands on then I have to wonder what his own personal collection must contain, the books that he isn't selling.
His location is Albuquerque, this is just a hop, skip and a jump away from where I live. I have family in Albuquerque, nieces, nephews and friends that have children there. This guy could be one of their neighbors and I just hate that thought.
Once you look at that page, the images are stored on your computer's hard drive. Thus you now posses kiddy porn, a felony.
dcpent
You are of course right about these images being stored on your hard drive, however, you can easilly delete them.
ed to fix UBS and to say that I do not beleive that just because I viewed his auction{s} and now those images are stored on my hard drive constitutes a felony because I didn't actively save these images to my hard drive on my own or to any other such storage device, floppy, zip disc, etc.
[ edited by yellowstone on Jan 20, 2004 07:54 AM ]
posted on January 20, 2004 08:20:01 AM new
While the auction description is lascivious and I believe so much so that the auction, as described, should be relegated to an"adult" category; I am actually more alarmed by absolute certainty of yellowstone's remedy:"THIS IS NOT ART AND IT SHOULD BE DESTROYED".
Such thin ice...The Sistine Chapel warrants destruction under this assumption, so too every National Geographic or Sears Catalog(for you old enough to remember) that intentionally or not promoted "a whole range of disgusting and heinous behaviors".
I might quote a passage from Robert Bolt's play, A Man for All Seasons, regarding the law & the devil. The exchange is between Thomas More & a young, ambitious Roper:
"Roper: So now you'd give the Devil benefit of law!
More: Yes. What would you do? Cut a great road through the law to get after the Devil?
Roper: I'd cut down every law in England to do that!
More: Oh? And when the last law was down, and the Devil turned round on you - where would you hide, Roper, the laws all being flat? This country's planted thick with laws from coast to coast - man's laws, not God's - and if you cut them down - and you're just the man to do it - d'you really think you could stand upright in the winds that would blow then? Yes, I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake.
Roper: I have long suspected this, this is the golden calf; the law's your god!
More: Oh, Roper, you're a fool, God's my god....But I find him rather too subtle....I don't know where He is or what He wants.
Roper: My God wants service, to the end and unremitting; nothing else!
More: Are you sure that's God? He sounds like Moloch. But indeed it may be God - And whoever hunts for me, Roper, God or Devil, will find me hiding in the thickets of the law! And I'll hide my daughter with me! Not hoist her up the mainmast of your seagoing principles! They put about too nimbly!
"I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to other people and I require the same from them."- John Wayne/The Shootist"(from the novel by Glendon Swarthout)
[ edited by pandorasbox on Jan 20, 2004 08:21 AM ]
[ edited by pandorasbox on Jan 20, 2004 08:23 AM ]
posted on January 20, 2004 08:37:58 AM newThe Sistine Chapel warrants destruction under this assumption, so too every National Geographic or Sears Catalog
You are not exactly correct about that. The Sistine Chapel, National Geographic and Sears Catalog do not depict children in a sexual manner. They are images of children depicted in their natural state or advertisements for underwear.
The images of children in the books in this guys auctions are displayed along side images of adults depicted in an alluring and sexual manner, thus carrying over the sexual descriptiveness from the adult images to the child images.
Plus some of his own descriptions of the imagery in his books are quite graphic; homoerotic situations, The guys are absolutely delicious
Show me where in National Geogrphic or Sears catalogs where this type of descriptive language is used or in the Sisteen chapel for that matter.
posted on January 20, 2004 09:06:15 AM new
I agreed with you re the description:
"While the auction description is lascivious and I believe so much so that the auction, as described, should be relegated to an"adult" category..".
The two parts of the issue deal with the work itself and the auction writer's description.
The description is lurid and should be in the adult category. You seem at odds with the work itself and that is where we part company.
The leap to destroying books based upon its description or association to other descriptions in other auctions is tenuous at best.
We protect the devil for our own good sake.
"I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to other people and I require the same from them."- John Wayne/The Shootist"(from the novel by Glendon Swarthout)
posted on January 20, 2004 10:36:37 AM new
IOW: yer fave flick AIN'T Louis Malle's "Pretty Baby"?
In typical feeBay cranialanial idiocy, they ended my auction for this VHS tape with the adviso that NO nude children are allowed on feeBay (Brooke was 12 at the time) -- although about 20 other copies were not ended!
My title was NOT prurient -- I didn't even allude to her "au nat" state in either description or title
posted on January 20, 2004 01:27:51 PM new
::Is it a 13 year old coffee table book or a book containing images of 13 year olds??::
It is a 13 year old coffee table book (published in 91) filled with a variety of images captured by photographer Sheila Metzner.
The problem is that is being marketed to the lowest common denominator by the seller.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
posted on January 20, 2004 05:03:57 PM new
I must say, I've seen Greek & Roman statues as well as Renaissance paintings that are more "pornographic" than the pictures shown by this seller.
It's sad that, in our culture, the simple naked body doing nothing at all lewd, is considered "pornographic."
edited to replace an "i" with an "e"
Censorship, like charity, should begin at home; but unlike charity, it should end there --Clare Booth Luce
[ edited by bunnicula on Jan 20, 2004 05:14 PM ]
posted on January 20, 2004 05:49:17 PM new
Yellowstone,,,You hear the calling. Sometimes One, can accomplish what Many, never will. You may be the chosen. Best o' luck. We can't,,,, Save the whole world but some of us keep trying. Change comes with continual trying. Don't Give up. You see what you see and OTHERS see what they see. Most never see everything from the same angle.
MY Powersellers logo.
Annnnnnd,,,,,,The beat goes on...yeah the beat goes on,,,,,
posted on January 20, 2004 08:14:25 PM new
Yea I hear ya Jack, but I have to say that I post what I post and I give as much detail as I possibly can to put forth my point{s} and if others do not read my posts in their entirety then I can't do anything about that. It is obvious, to me at least, that this is what happened here. Such is life and the way of things.
posted on January 20, 2004 08:45:31 PM new
It's a book. A pretty poor choice of pictures for the auction IMHO, but still none the less, it's a book.
Get over it and move on with life.
posted on January 20, 2004 08:56:21 PM new
yellowstone, I hope you don't think I was ignoring you over at the RT. I did read what you said and I understand your concerns. Like I said, the pic isn't offensive to me but I don't care for the marketing because "girls" and "boys" are used in the titles.
The first is child pornography. CHILD PORNOGRAPHY IS ILLEGAL, and the possession or sale of such materials violates the law in many countries, including the United States. To protect our users, recognizing that images of nude children often raise legal concerns, eBay has made a policy decision that it will not permit the listing of any item that depicts nude minors (under 18 years of age). Listings of such material, even if described as nude "teens," "children," "youngsters," or "nudist," are not permitted.
I don't think this book is considered pornography though.
posted on January 21, 2004 01:12:07 PM new
It's gone. Yellowstone did you get his user ID to see if the other ones are gone also. Check and see then come and tell us. Don't put the user ID on here. It would be interesting if the seller was NARU.
posted on January 21, 2004 04:34:41 PM new
Has Yellowstone raised a valid issue? Yes. Do I think Yellowstone should be put back in his cage? Yes.
The exploitation of any child is horrendous. But, God save me from being protected by the likes of Yellowstone.
Hey, dude, If you want to tilt at a windmill; do something about Monica Lewinsky being accepted as part of the current events landscape. Finish THIS sentence, "Monica Lewinski's claim to fame is....."
Until you fix THAT, don't even try to tell me or anyone else what we can or cannot read. While you are busy burning books, Your sweet innocent children are out there knocking each other up. Don't try to control the rest of the world, control yourself and yourn.
Now where DID I put those pills......
posted on January 21, 2004 07:40:02 PM new
Parklane64-I think you missed the point.The point is the AGE were talking about.What Monica Lewinsky did has nothing to do with
taking nude photos of under age children.
