posted on March 12, 2004 05:48:50 AM new
Hi...a few months ago I suggested we were starting to use the no snipe on our items.
After about four-five months, we found an overall increase in the dollars sold and the number of bids.
Two other points...many - at least three per week - emails from new and seasoned buyers thank us.
Others ask what is snipe bidding. We send them to some of the snipe programs.
Still to others, we explain what the eBay proxy bid is.
Many have said they dislike the idea of having to pay to bid.
From insights on the powerseller board, this comes up on a somewhat regular basis...maybe eBay is going to institute their own. It is in their best interest to show activity.
Anyway, just an update.
thanks from nyc
posted on March 12, 2004 09:31:27 PM new
Very interesting! Thanks for posting this.
___________________________________
Have you noticed since everyone has a Camcorder these days no one talks
about seeing UFOs like they used to?
posted on March 13, 2004 06:28:14 AM new
I tried to find your original posting on this subject but couldn't locate it through the archives. Can you please tell me what exactly this is and what you are doing? I'm fairly new to ebay (4 months). Thanks.
posted on March 15, 2004 11:34:12 AM new
Yes, I'd like to see the original thread, too.
bizzy: There is a theory floating around that sniping (the practice of bidding on an eBay auction at the last possible moment) is bad for business. Certainly it is quite discouraging to some bidders, especially those who can't be poised in front of a computer screen when an auction ends.
A few sellers have tried to discourage sniping by ending their auctions early if they receive no bids.
--
"Clearly, people want things that make their lives the way they wish they were." --John Peterman, `Peterman Rides Again'
posted on March 15, 2004 11:39:31 AM new
Hi...the original thread was several months ago.
We had been experimenting with our eBay sites with no snipe (blocking snipes) and the regular way.
Snipe is generally good for the buyer, and maybe not so good for the seller.
At any rate, as noted above, we've done some analysis and find the no snipe block software works to our advantage.
To the buyer who doesn't like that (and there are some), we've found it to our advantage to use the no snipe.
Ending dollars are higher, earlier bids, etc.
thanks
posted on March 15, 2004 11:47:04 AM new
Two or three years ago on this board there were many defenders of the no sniping gambit on auctions but these days there are very few of them. With so few bids or bidding wars ( 41% selling rate on ebay ) any and all bids are welcomed by most sellers, including snipe bids.
-------------- sig file ----------- *There is no conclusive evidence that life is serious*
posted on March 15, 2004 12:04:15 PM new
Here is the original thread. Your results don't mean much to me because you've mentioned that you sell a variety of antiques and collectibles and the last 4 or 5 months would have shown an increase in sales for them anyway, compared to the summer months. It's always been that way on ebay.
posted on March 15, 2004 02:25:35 PM new
Hi...Kiara..you are correct, we haven't done this through the summer months when it slows down.
So we'll see how it goes..
thanks
posted on March 15, 2004 02:50:40 PM new
Thanks, Fluffy, I had a feeling that's what it meant. I went back and read the original thread (thanks to Kiara) and I have some observations of my own.
Yes, snipers can really discourage new bidders, but there is a way to use snipers to our (sellers) advantage. I think if we explain ebay's proxy bidding in our listing, it may help the newer bidder to win the item in the end even if a sniper is lurking. It may also increase the amount of the item's final sale.
I remember when I started to bid, I didn't know what I was doing and would have welcomed the information right in the listing as ebay can be quite daunting to a new bidder. It was to me. I didn't know where to begin so I jumped in (like most) with both feet.
I also agree that most of the bidding occurs within the final hour or so of the listing. However, I don't agree with shorter listings. Why? Because I have found that through cross promoting my items, I have increased the number of hits on each of my items. I also spend the extra quarter and put a gallery picture (most don't do that in my field). By changing the way I listed, as well as really working my cross promotions, I have increased the number of bids and as well as the amount of each auction at closing.
posted on March 15, 2004 03:57:27 PM new
Bizzy: Do you have the wording for a brief desc. of how proxy bidding works, for an auction description? I think it's a good idea but hate to add more verbiage to my descriptions than is already there. I'd welcome a good sentence about it, to use.
___________________________________
Have you noticed since everyone has a Camcorder these days no one talks
about seeing UFOs like they used to?
posted on March 15, 2004 06:30:40 PM new
Roadsmith: This is what I came up with. It's longer than a sentence but perhaps with some tinkering you can shorten it. If so, please do share. I'm open to all suggestions.
HOW TO OUTSMART SNIPERS: A sniper is a bidder who comes in during the last 30 seconds or so of the auction and can snatch this item away from you. Take advantage of Ebay's proxy bidding system. Simply enter the HIGHEST AMOUNT you are willing to pay for this item. Every time a new bid is placed, Ebay will automatically up your bid each time until it reaches the proxy amount you entered. Don't let a sniper snatch this item from you!
posted on March 15, 2004 08:29:23 PM new
Bizzy: I like what you've written. Did you write it yourself or get it from an Ebay site?
I'm thinking that a link to that information, titled How to Outwit Snipers would bring people there who want the information but not clutter up my description page too much.
Now--somebody tell me how to do the link! I've forgotten. . . .
___________________________________
Have you noticed since everyone has a Camcorder these days no one talks
about seeing UFOs like they used to?
posted on March 16, 2004 04:24:54 AM new
Hi Bizzy...that's nicely done...There are so many new people on eBay, many confused by the sniping. Also, some simply don't like to pay for sniping.
Some buyers won't like it.
If you check out the powersellers board, this topic comes up frequently.
posted on March 16, 2004 05:08:12 AM new
Here's a way to link with a "click here". Put the url where the *** are. You can change font size etc.
<center><font size=+1><a href="http:// ****>Click here to learn how to outwit auction "snipers"</a></font></center>
I should add that I personally don't mind snipers - the more the merrier! Would love to add to my auctions: "bid early, bid high and bid often"
[ edited by neglus on Mar 16, 2004 06:15 AM ]
posted on March 16, 2004 05:55:47 AM new
I can't remember all the details as it was appr one year ago I put a line in my auction description that said something like "many bidders are now using bidding sniper software to win auctions in the final seconds so you may want to put in your highest proxy bid"....something like that.
I then received an email from eBay stating that I could not say that in my auctions; even though I did not mention any Sniper sites by name. I suppose someone must have complained about my auction or something; anyway ebay told me to take that verbage out or my auction would be cancelled. I have no idea if that is still accurate or not. But it did happen to me.
posted on March 16, 2004 07:01:02 AM new
Roadsmith: I wrote that myself, but please feel free to use it if you like it.
ThePriest: Thanks. To address your statement that some sellers may not like it, I've learned one very valuable lesson in life (especially being in the sales industry for years), you can't please 'em all!
Neglus: I'm not saying that I don't like snipers, but I would like to use it to my advantage. By instructing new bidders on how to bid by proxy, I can perhaps increase the sales of each of my items.
If ebay has anything to say about the verbiage, I will ask them how I should word it for the newer bidders. If they insist, I will then remove it. For now, though, it stays and I'm going to monitor my auctions to see how they turn out. I've noticed a bit more sniping going on recently, maybe I can use it to my advantage.
posted on March 16, 2004 07:05:30 AM new
One other thing that I wanted to mention -- Last night I placed a bid on an item that I really wanted. I put in a proxy bid for such an outrageous amount (but one that I could afford to pay) that I knew I would win it. I watched a sniper come in and try to snatch it from me. Although the final amount didn't come anywhere near the proxy bid I placed, I'm sure that the seller is very happy indeed! And I am, too, because I got what I wanted.
posted on March 16, 2004 07:08:03 AM new
Hi Biz...that's true...can't please them all.
There's been a little buzz that eBay is reviewing the snipe situation.
It affects their bottom line, plus is a frustration to new and some established buyers.
We know, and have been told, that certain buyers won't shop our sites. I guess we have to accept that...our stats show an overall increase in the number of bids, final dollar amounts...
Thank you for that url piece...good thinking.
posted on March 16, 2004 09:49:23 PM new
Before everyone runs off and thwarts last minute bids, consider this: Sniping, whether done manually or electronically, is simply another way of placing a proxy bid. It is not the last bid that wins, but the highest bid no matter how late it was placed. No one knows what the highest ebay proxy is--snipers have no advantage in that. There is no advantage of being one or 2 or 3 seconds faster or later except that a person gets to place a proxy late enough that no one else has time to see it and dink around with it--they have to have bid higher already or planned to snipe higher already--and both of those drive bid amounts up for the sellers. The disadvantage for snipers is that they only have one bid and if they lose they don't get a second chance, so it behooves them to bid high.
I can manually snipe just as well as if I use a sniping service, but I don't have to be at the computer if I use a service. I can set my bid days in advance and log on to see if I won or not after everything is over. Often I set my bid before there are even any bids on the item and I don't come back to look until the auction is over. That is hardly "stealing" an item, there weren't even any bidders around when I set my bid. Many times I do not win but the seller significantly increased or even doubled their earnings because of my snipe--the winning bid is 50 cents or a dollar over my snipe amount rather than at 50 cents or a dollar over a quarter or half that amount that was the going rate.
For instance, if the going bid is $25 but the secret ebay proxy value is $75 and it sells like that, the seller will never see a penny of the money between $25 and $75. If it is worth $75 to one bidder, it is probably worth more than $25 to others. Any last minute bids that come in over $25 but under $75 means that the seller gets a higher percentage of the $75 proxy even if the sniper doesn't win. If a sniperer comes in and happens to bid more than the unknown $75 secret ebay proxy amount, it sells for the $75 or more rather than the $25--and rightfully so.
If sellers decide they don't want last minute bids, they lose not just the sniper's business and money, but the extra money from the non-sniping winning bidder's proxy (because the sniper sniped higher than the going bid amount before the snipe even though it was not enough to win). They also lose higher proxies from the ebay bidders who know there may be snipers their proxies will have to weather.
Snipers don't "steal" items, they win them because they bid the highest, and if their bid is not the highest the seller can still benefit from the snipe. I lose lots of auctions because my snipe was not as high as the standing ebay proxy, but the seller gets more money because I bid. If people are discouraged they don't win, they are not bidding high enough. A high proxy will always win over those who bid less, snipers or not.
posted on March 16, 2004 10:30:25 PM newIf people are discouraged they don't win, they are not bidding high enough.
Oh please, not this again.
Look. Let's pretend I am Susie Homemaker and an auction for a Peruvian feather duster is about to end. I am high bidder 1 day before closing, one hour before closing and one minute before closing. I get sniped in the last few seconds.
How was I supposed to magically divine what was "high enough"? I was high bidder, dammit. That's what the screen says. The screen does NOT say, "Sure, Susie, you're high bidder now, but you'd better up that bid anyway if you want to make sure you won't get sniped."
Here's my proposed solution to the sniper issue:
Change the bidding increment in the last three minutes.
If the increment is 25 cents, make it $2.50.
If it's $5, make it $50.
If it's $25, make it $250.
You claim the sniper gets the item because he's willing to pay more? Let's make sure he really pays more if he wants it that badly.
Crazy, you say? Not at all. Live auctions don't have linear bidding increments through the course of the auction; the auctioneer can and often does increase the amount that the next raise in the bidding must be. (Otherwise some auctions would drag on all night.)
A ten-fold increase in the bidding increment in the last three minutes. Give it some thought, eBay. Run the numbers. As a seller, I like it and as a bidder, I like it even more.
"Clearly, people want things that make their lives the way they wish they were." --John Peterman, `Peterman Rides Again'
posted on March 16, 2004 10:36:47 PM newHow was I supposed to magically divine what was "high enough"? I was high bidder, dammit. That's what the screen says. The screen does NOT say, "Sure, Susie, you're high bidder now, but you'd better up that bid anyway if you want to make sure you won't get sniped."
Actually, it does say something to that effect. When you place a bid, there is a big notice at the top of the auction stating you are currently top bidder (if you bid enough) but that that is liable to change if others bid. That's not the exact wording, but it is the gist of it. It's a very clear notice that if you're not on your toes you can be outbid.
******
Censorship, like charity, should begin at home; but unlike charity, it should end there --Clare Booth Luce
posted on March 17, 2004 01:06:56 AM new
After Susie gets outbid a few times she will figure it out for herself. Stopping snipe bidding is the stupidest thing I have ever heard of. If you want to make sure you get less for your items sell them at a fixed price and leave all of us that want to make money with the snipe bidders that we love.
posted on March 17, 2004 10:50:29 AM new
No, but you are making unsubstantiated claims.
Instead of such vague comments as “At any rate, as noted above, we've done some analysis and find the no snipe block software works to our advantage,” please provide the details of your analysis. I assume you did a controlled study, using a null hypothesis, and confirmed your results statistically using a t-test or a similar generally accepted analytical approach. We can do the interpretation. Just present the facts.
What “no snipe block software” are you referring to?
“There's been a little buzz that eBay is reviewing the snipe situation.” Please provide your authoritative source for this statement.
[ edited by ArtNouveau on Mar 17, 2004 10:51 AM ]
[ edited by ArtNouveau on Mar 17, 2004 12:29 PM ]
posted on March 17, 2004 11:05:00 AM new
Hi...thanks for your input auction.
These are substantiated via our analysis. To put a spreadsheet here would not only be confusing but also probably contains info not for public viewing.
Our first reviews were simple...a few of the same items on different sites...with snipe and without snipe. We noticed an average of 3 more bids (early bids...not last minute) and a higher rate.
Thinking this could just be an anomaly, we did it with more items...now, this is a little challenging because we deal in vintage and antique items. We do have a selling and bid history of many of similar type, patterns, etc. So, we then used just one site with a larger number of items against the historical data...(about a year's worth) Again...increases in final dollar and number of bids, and earlier bids as well.
We kept layering it in so to speak, now it is on all the sites.
As to the buzz...it comes up at times on the powerseller board.
I agree with many, sniping is good for the buyer and its also good for the seller. We've simply found that for us...what we deal with...we gain more and earlier bids, with a final higher dollar.
thanks
posted on March 17, 2004 07:24:36 PM new
A true cure for the controversy would be to have all auctions that receive a bid in the last 5 minutes of an auctions end, is for the auction to get extended by another 5 minutes. Then the snipers could get their bids in and sellers could see the highest return on their item.
[ edited by stonecold613 on Mar 17, 2004 08:36 PM ]
posted on March 17, 2004 09:46:34 PM new
thepriest: your thread isn't a 'stupid' thread--it is a great thread! I posted because not everything about sniping always has to come out bad for buyers and sellers, and it seemed no one was contributing anything to that regard. I would never bid or snipe on a site that didn't welcome all bids so I would never be a troublemaker for those who didn't want snipers. Actually I bid all different ways depending on the item--sometimes I am the earliest ebay bid, sometimes a later ebay bid, sometimes a manual last minute bid and sometimes a snipe, ether manual or electronic. I also sometimes enter bids by more than one way on the same item at different points in the auction.
The problem I see is that lots of folks don't understand proxy bidding. They tacitly acknowledge that there is a proxy, but they bid and respond to wins and losses as if it is a live non-proxy auction. What no one can control in proxy bidding is either how much the bidder is willing to bid the truly maximum amount they would be willing to pay, or what reasons give the item its value for that bidder. Things start revolving instead over whether a person is outbid in the visible going price instead of the value of the item that others are willing to pay, and then people start taking it personally.
Some of that can be avoided if folks do what ebay suggests--set their proxy however they bid by the maximum amount they would be willing to pay. At that point any win is great and any loss should be welcome. But people often set their proxy very close to the visible bid thinking that they can up their proxy any time they wish if they are outbid later. Then if they don't get the chance to do that, they feel cheated or like someone was trying to "steal it out from under them" when the problem was they were not using and timing their proxy bidding effectively.
Fortunately in my niche all the serious bidders are extremely savvy bidders and very knowledgeable in the wholesale and retail value of the items, regardless of how they bid. Who wins is merely a matter of what the person's budget is for whatever combination of reasons, which item they have their eye on or not, and what they are willing to pay--it rarely relates to the type of bid for the really quality items.
Many of us email to congratulate each other on outbidding us saying if we were going to be outbid it couldn't have gone to a nicer person, and if they are ever in a position to sell it later to email us. Winners and losers also sometimes share among themselves after the auction if we know any leads on the retail market for another item that is identical or similar--sometimes for less than we won the auction for if the factor that is different is a premium for them but relatively worthless to us. Not all snipers are greedy "Simon L'Grees" out to steal the merchandise and ruin websites' bids for their bidders.
If a site operates on a small profit margin selling known low ticket items, it is easy to see how snipers would definitely not be an advantage. Discouraging early bids for a difference of 50 cents on an under $5-10 item isn't a good idea. But for higher ticket unique items, the seller makes more if there is a pool willing to front the high proxies for items that are really worth it to some of the bidders.
Thank you very much for the opportunity to input. I have learned lots from all the posts in this thread.
posted on March 18, 2004 04:43:39 AM new
Hi ... many thanks for your input.
We view this as a discussion...thoughts of a possibility.
Since this is our fulltime business, it requires constant analysis.
We buy off eBay also...sniping is great for that.
This sniping is a double edge sword it can work both ways.
Because of the transparency of eBay and of competitors and strategies, its quite fluid.
We've had items that we've relisted three times (one just closed this morning). The first two times, not a bid. It just closed with 14 bids at an amount way beyond our expectations.
What is stupid to one seller or buyer, could be smart for another.
Re: eBay... for a second put yourself in their place...their view of the bottom line and overall activity.
What is better...a - control bidding from in-house or within the eBay site. b - maybe a reserve 'proxy' type bid program c - what are the benefits...my guess is that items will close higher, with more bids. d - thus greater revenue.
What maybe a stupid strategy to one, might be wise for another.
Its simply a discussion. Food for thought - one can do with information what they want to...
thanks
posted on March 18, 2004 07:06:13 AM new
This is the 2nd and maybe 3rd thread thepriest has started about stopping snipe bids and still no proof. If you are so happy about how this is working for you prove it is working with a link to your auctions.
I am not afraid to say that snipe bidding works for me both buying and selling. I am toolhound on eBay as well as vendio.
