posted on May 8, 2004 07:48:44 PM new
sparkz,
if it is under 250,you still need the dc to satisfy paypal seller protection policy,dc is trackable by paypal,insurance slip is trackable by usps employees only.
-sig file -------we eat to live,not live to eat.
Benjamin Franklin
posted on May 8, 2004 07:55:49 PM new
My last two e-mails to her:
"While you were busy filing fraud complaints with the USPS perhaps you should have inquired as to where the package is. I left eary this morning and stopped by the post office and they said there was no package for me there. I was at home in my office April 30 at 7:35am, 10 steps from my front door when, according to the USPS website, the post office delivered the package. No one rang the doorbell or knocked on the door. Before I left for my showroom at 8:30 am, I went out the front door as I do every morning to feed my fish. There was NO PACKAGE and NO DELIVERY NOTICE. As I stated before, my wife checked with our neighbors and nothing was left with them. This can only mean two things. Either they DID NOT come at 7:35 am as you claim, or they misdelivered it. The post office has had a standing order for THREE YEARS not to leave any packages outside my home. NO IFS, ANDS OR BUTS. I have had no attempt from the post office to contact me regarding a package and they say there is not one there. There is NOT ONE INDICATION from this end that there was ever a delivery attempt made. Now, it is YOUR responsibility to file a trace as the shipper as your end of the transaction has not been fulfilled, i.e. no package has arrived.
In my experiences as a seller on eBay I have occasional packages lost and misdelivered including some very unusual circumstances. In EVERY instance, I assumed my responsibility to follow the correct steps to locate the missing package nad not laying it as the responsibility on the customer. Every single one was resolved by either finding the package or the shipping company paying out on the insurance. You apparently want to skip these steps and file fraud charges. YOU ARE UNBELIEVABLE!!!
Now, while I have filed for a chargeback from PayPal, I have not been refunded ANY money and am out $539.39 AND my merchandise and am faced with a seller who REFUSES to follow through on her obligations and continues to take an arrogant and combative stance after REFUSING to answer e-mails or contact me in any way shape or form until I had filed a chargeback. YOU NEED TO TAKE A LONG LOOK IN THE MIRROR AND ASK YOURSELF "WHAT COULD I HAVE DONE BETTER TO AVOID THIS HOSTILE SITUATION THAT I CREATED?"
I have had NO contact from eBay or PayPal regarding this situation and at some time in the future you will find it incumbent upon yourself to take that littlle scrap of paper to the post office and filing a missing package claim. By the way, did you ACTUALLY buy insurance for $7.20 that I was charged or just charge me for it and buy delivery confirmation instead for forty cents? Maybe THAT'S why your so angry! I haven't seen ANY proof of insurance from you!
If and when eBay, the post office or PayPal contact me, I will continue to tell them EXACTLY what I told you.
P.S. "I have filed fraud complaints against you with the U.S. Postal Service, Ebay's Safe Harbor, talked to both Ebay and Paypal who concur that it is YOUR responsibility to retrieve the figurine, not mine."
Retrieve it from WHERE exactly?
AND
"I have spoken with a supervisor from the USPS who confirmed what I already knew but you choose to ignore. The tracking info only states the time and date the package arrived at the facility, not when it was actually delivered. Furthermore, IF you did INDEED purchase the required amount of insurance for $539.39, a signature would be required at delivery. So, IF you purchased insurance and IF the post office delivered the package, then they SHOULD have a signature. IF they do, I can guarantee 100% beyond a shadow of a doubt, it DOES NOT belong to myself or my wife.
On this note, you need to start a trace. IF you bought insurance, you're covered in any event. IF NOT, then YOU are the one has committed fraud since you CHARGED me for the exact amount required by the post office to insure the package.
Furthermore, IF you actually filed fraud charges without any proof to sunstantiate them, you are NOW committing libel and due to your surly nature, I WILL hold you accountable!
This SHOULD be clear. I assume since you can WRITE that you can also READ!
posted on May 8, 2004 08:10:10 PM new
now this seller is selling items belonged to elderly ,some are sick and disabled??
so who is shipping the lladro,the seller or the owner ??
now let me give you a scenario-
lets say buyer lives on 100 pine st,columbus,ohio,77890/
seller ships an empty box packed with newspaper labeled as resident,299 pine st,columbus ,ohio 77890 with no return address .
the dc got swiped at 77890 post office and postman delivered the package to 299 pine st.
resident opened the package and threw the whole thing away.
now it would look like your case,it arrived at the post office of 77890 and it was delivered by a postman ,it is not returned by the resident of 299 pine st so post office would never find it in the backroom.
there is no return addr and the resident at 299 pine seen no reason to complain to postman why someone sent an empty box ??
now this would have been a perfect crime if it is under 250 dollars.
-sig file -------we eat to live,not live to eat.
Benjamin Franklin
[ edited by stopwhining on May 8, 2004 08:11 PM ]
posted on May 8, 2004 08:13:21 PM new
ebayvet: once again, i guess i been under the mushroom too long...is a "paypal" chargeback initiated without one having to start the process with their own c/card carrier??? i guess what is confusing me is i read:: "then the chargeback will go your way."
posted on May 8, 2004 08:17:55 PM new
That's right, you can file with paypal and not your credit card company. I did it once, because I received no communication from the seller and 3 weeks had passed. The item was eventually delivered, and I canceled the dispute. Since they did not have Delivery Confirmation, if I was unethical I could have gotten away with it.
posted on May 8, 2004 08:22:09 PM new
Y ou file complaint with paypal,and you file chargeback with your credit card issuer.
paypal timeframe is 30 days,credit cards??
visa.mc is now 12 months,amex 6 months and discover 3 months
-sig file -------we eat to live,not live to eat.
Benjamin Franklin
posted on May 8, 2004 10:58:34 PM new
There is a couple of things that you should have done better.
First, never ever contact your seller through ebay's mail system. I get them so often and when I try to respond, they bounce back faster than a rubber ball.
Always contact them through your e-mail so they can respond back.
Second, taking the side of the seller for a second. I too as a seller, would have likely filed charges against you for fraud if I had something that stated the package was delivered and you simply started a chargeback without contacting me directly. Again, never contact anyone through ebay's screwed up e-mail system. I can understand why you were chewed up and down by this person.
This seller is as much of a victim as you are. Maybe a little consideration in the matter and an appology on your part should be forth coming to get the situation resolved.
posted on May 9, 2004 05:41:19 AM new
i would not apologise to any seller who called at 3 in the morning and screamed obscenity to my spouse.
This seller should know how paypal works and how USPS DC works before selling on ebay.
If the buyer files chargeback,the penalty fee is only 10 dollars,small price to pay for not doing her homework.
-sig file -------we eat to live,not live to eat.
Benjamin Franklin
posted on May 9, 2004 08:34:58 AM new
Stonecold the buyer said that the DC said the package was delivered to the facility at 7:30. No where did it say delivered to his address. The only thing this buyer can do is go to his post office and ask to see the packages that they have on hold. I know some Post offices will let you look. Even if the buyer said you can leave a package at my door this one couldn't be because it was over the limit and now it reequires signature of the buyer. The only problem I see is there was no insurance on this package and if the buyer purchased insurance and the seller didn't put it on then the seller is responsible for the total amount.
I would never touch an item from this seller. Her TOS turns me off. Even if she had the item I wanted I would wait until another person put another one on. It might not happen soon but sooner or later another one will show up.
posted on May 9, 2004 08:48:46 AM new
libra,
why do you say this package cannot be left at the door and require signature??
the only thing this package has is the DC,which requires no signature from buyer.
i looked at her auctions and that particular item-2 thai dancers??
they are 20 inches tall and this cannot be a small package.
may be it is stolen??
so now the seller will have to refund the money as she did not take out insurance altho she is being paid to do so,what kind of seller call buyer at 3 in the morning??is she nuts??
-sig file -------we eat to live,not live to eat.
Benjamin Franklin
posted on May 9, 2004 09:38:38 PM new
Stop I didn't say that what I said was:
Even if the buyer said you can leave a package at my door this one couldn't be because it was over the limit and now it requires signature of the buyer. The only problem I see is there was no insurance on this package
*This is from the USPS website.
For an insurance value of over $50 on domestic shipments or any international value, a numbered blue receipt is issued.
Items with insurance value over $50 (domestic or any international value) must be signed for at delivery (the delivery office maintains a delivery record for these insured items).
posted on May 9, 2004 10:12:33 PM new
There has to be insurance on this shipment. I can't visualize any seller being stupid enough to ship a $500.00+ item through the postal service without insurance that had been paid for by the buyer. If she did, just to make a couple of extra bucks, then she deserves whatever she gets. And even by the wildest stretch of the imagination, you do not owe this person an apology. Quite frankly, I would demand that she produce evidence that she actually shipped the statue (other than a worthless DC receipt) or I would be thinking about a grand theft complaint with her local PD.
A $75.00 solid state device will always blow first to protect a 25 cent fuse ~ Murphy's Law
posted on May 9, 2004 10:16:10 PM new
Stone Cold,
Sounds like you're the one who told her that this discussion is going on. NOW she is threatening a lawsuit for libel and defamation. I have only be dealing in facts so have at it honey. Also, I was not the one who identified her on this board so go after the right party.
In addition, I have used ebay's e-mail system many times without a problem. I have confirmations from eBay that these messages were sent so If her ISP or e-mail account has problems they are hers to solve. If eBay effed up, they owe both of us an apology, not me her. Your friend is refusing to own up to the facts that she has a serious problem.
You can not SERIOUSLY say that she is justified for her calling my wife at 3:45 am and screaming at her no matter what. She is on the wrong side of the line that separates humans from animals and is steadfast in her tenuous claims.
Once again, to clarify for all, for a package insured at a value over $50.00 USD, a signature is required at delivery. I spoke to clerk I know in person and spoke to a supervisor over the phone. THEY DON'T HAVE THE PACKAGE!!! Kapeesh?
Also, PayPal requires signature confirmation for packages over $250.00. So if she has a problem it is because either she didn't buy the insurance I paid her for or the post office effed up and left the package God knows where without obtaining the required signature. Now, since I haven't seen any indication that a package was attempted to be delivered to my address, she needs to get her lazy tush off the sofa and do her duty as a seller, as I have done many times as a seller when a package has gone AWOL, and file a trace and/or claim with the post office. I don't have the time to chase around for her. She thinks that since she mailed the package and has a DC slip to prove it she has fulfilled her end. Guess what? I don't have a package and I ain't doin' her job for her!
And by the way, if you're readings this Cheriegal, it's VENDIO, not VERIO! Sheesh, can't you get ANYTHING right?
posted on May 9, 2004 11:10:25 PM new
How many times does Fluffy have to proclaim that Delivery Confirmation is NOT tracking? How many times have we read posts on this board that sellers use DC for it's psychological effect to keep buyers from claiming non-delivery? The fact of the matter is that DC is worthless except to meet Paypal's minimum threshold. It's value rests totally in the hands of the local postmaster and the proceedures he dictates to his underlings. It's obvious that your seller, since she cannot provide an insurance #, probably never procured insurance in the first place and stuck the premium in her pocket. It's also possible that she followed the scenario outlined by Stopwhining in her post about shipping an empty carton to a wrong address. In either case, it's a felony in California and I would not expect Virginia to look on it as any less. I think it's about time for you and her to have a telephone conversation to make an honest attempt to rectify this situation, the most important part being that she give you the number from the insurance form so you can verify its authencity and have the statue traced by the post office. If she can't or won't participate in reasonable dialog, I would, at least, file a fraud claim with Ebay so you can recover at least $450.00 from their program, and at the most contact the Arlington Police department and make a report.
P.S. I'm assuming you know the time limits for filing for Paypal reversals and Ebay fraud insurance claims and have the critical dates marked on your calendar.
A $75.00 solid state device will always blow first to protect a 25 cent fuse ~ Murphy's Law
posted on May 10, 2004 02:39:26 AM new
bkkofaz ... IF you should happen to receive delivery of this soon, don't forget to leave that "CONTROL TAG" IN PLACE until all of the issues are resolved.
[ edited by AintRichYet on May 10, 2004 02:43 AM ]
posted on May 10, 2004 06:04:25 AM new
According to USPS the insurance, if purchased, must be initiated by the Seller. I had an insured package with eDC delivered to my buyer. She said it wasn't delivered. eDC said it was. We emailed each other back and forth and that doesn't straighten anything out. I phoned her, then I went to initate the insurance and the postmaster at the post office said since the eDC said it was delivered the post office will not pay insurance. I then called her post office and talked the the person that takes care of insurance. Wisconsin to Texas. (As a seller I feel it is my obligation to do that.) Come to find out the buyer has given permission for the postman to leave her packages on her porch if she wasn't home. That is what he did. Someone stole her package. It was not a high amount I think $48.00 but I felt it is my obligation as the seller to do all I can for my buyer. I did not refund though. I ship everything with eDC that I can because I find this a tool to see if my buyer received the package or someone else. I have also learned a lesson that if just under $50.00 I will insure the package for over $50.00 so that the postman cannot leave a package at the door.
Now you and your seller have to have a civil conversation to settle this as we cannot because we all have different opinions. Also if she is reading this maybe she should enter into the discussion. I wish you good luck....
posted on May 10, 2004 06:18:35 AM new
If she has taken this package to the post office,she may still have the receipt showing your zipcode and the total postage paid.
From the total postage paid,you can find out if she has taken out 500-600 dollars worth of insurance.
This may just be another example why it is not a good idea to sell for others-selling goods you dont have in possession.
-sig file -------we eat to live,not live to eat.
Benjamin Franklin
posted on May 10, 2004 06:54:37 AM newYOU ARE UNBELIEVABLE!!!
YOU NEED TO TAKE A LONG LOOK IN THE MIRROR AND ASK YOURSELF "WHAT COULD I HAVE DONE BETTER TO AVOID THIS HOSTILE SITUATION THAT I CREATED?"
It takes two to create a hostile situation.
Forget for a moment whether or not you are "entitled" to be angry. Consider instead the possibility that a calm, unemotional, gentle, helpful demeanor might have done wonders to resolve this situation.
If you reject that, I guess you could pull out your pistol and shoot yourself in the OTHER foot. Do you want to get the figurine or do you want to get even?
posted on May 10, 2004 07:52:40 AM new
how can USPS deny the claim if DC only proves it has arrived at the local post office,not the buyer's residence??
I live in an area considered rural by USPS,and my postman sometimes ,not always,will scan the dc in front of my door.
I dont know how it is recorded in their system when she does that,does it say arrived at 9999 oaks lane (say this is my address) or arrived at XXX POST OFFICE??(which is the local post office)??
-sig file -------we eat to live,not live to eat.
Benjamin Franklin
posted on May 10, 2004 08:03:59 AM new
I know this was a terrible experience for the buyer, and the seller sounds like a NUT, BUT that is why we don’t ship ANYTHING, without ”signature required,” such protects us as a seller, and the buyer too, and avoids situations like this. We require a signature and insurance either UPS or USPS, on any item over $5.00 (Yes that is Five Dollars), and we have almost never had a customer complain, and it certainly stopped chargebacks, and what I KNEW were phony claims of “I never received it.” We require insurance on everything, period.
Hint to sellers, we use to have folks fail to pay the insurance although it was required, they determined they didn't want it. SO, we now combine insurance and shipping costs in "insurance included in Shipping and Handling," then the buyer can't seperate the insurance, and such an approach has worked very well for us.
I do agree with OhMsLucy, with the sellers TOS on this auction, I wouldn’t have bid at all. I often pass auctions by, which have bad TOS, auctions which have ridiculous shipping costs, AND usually those without PayPal or check acceptance. I have no intention going out, spending money on a MO, and then mailing it – too much time, extra money, and NO protection.
The burden of proof of delivery in on the seller, and PayPal wants a signature to PROVE delivery, so you should be okay. Just ignore the nut and report the issue to PayPal.
Sorry to hear about such a bad experience.
My Boss Is A Jewish Carpenter!
[ edited by jwpc on May 10, 2004 08:09 AM ]
posted on May 10, 2004 09:11:10 AM new
iareaschollteacher,
Actually, I took an unemotional and objectional approach at first. Her only attempt to return my phone call resulted in her hanging up after two rings just as I answered the phone. Num,erous attempts to call her back were met with an answering machine. No point in continuing down that road since it is apparent she does not really want to speak with me.
From the very first she has vehemently called us thieves and has not recanted in the least bit. She has rejected any attempts at reconciliation or reasoning. I can understand at being upset if her side of events are accurate but at this point I don't believe her about not getting any e-mails. I believe her arrogance precluded her from answering them. We could have solved this the first day but a week later she is still maintaining fraud with not a shred of proof. But then again, you can't reason with unreasonable people.
I have only contributed to a hostile situation in as much as a person who is threatened by another with a gun. Just by being there, you ARE part of it but have you actually contributed to it? You can sweettalk until you're blue in the face but it is up to the assaulter to put the weapon away. If attempts at nice-nice are rejected and you are still being threatened, you may eventually choose to protect yourself and fight back. Either that or succumb. The only thing that will satisfy her, as she has stated to me over and over is to drop the chargeback. That will not happen until the package is delivered.
posted on May 10, 2004 09:21:44 AM new
Excuses and rationalizations for losing your cool.
Keeping a calm demeanor means exactly that. It means acting, not reacting. It means not going off on someone because THEY have gotten violently emotional or start slinging mud.
If you need a real-life example, take that of a 911 operator. They are trained to never become upset, never get emotional, just to get the facts and take appropriate action.
I am not asking you to understand or forgive this seller. You misunderstand. I don't think you should have ever engaged this person on a personal level. What I am saying is that by giving in to the temptation to behave in a juvenile manner REGARDLESS OF PROVOCATION you have contributed to the state of affairs as they are today.
posted on May 10, 2004 09:37:11 AM new
What kind of nonsense is that?
Of course it's opinion. Everything posted here is opinion.
No need to label it as such.
( Did you really think someone would mistake it for Federal law? <snort> )
I did forget to mention one thing, though, and I'll illustrate it with a real-life example.
Once long ago I shipped a heavy package USPS. (This was before eDC or even DC.) After a week, the buyer reported he hadn't gotten it. I assured him it had indeed shipped and asked him to keep me informed. We kept in touch, exchanging emails every 5 to 7 days. A month after shipping, it finally showed up at the buyer's place of business.
At no time were threats ever exchanged. No fraud cases were filed, SquareTrade (if it even existed then) was blissfully unaware of the problem, no negative feedback was left, no hysterical phone calls were made.
Why?
Because neither of us escalated it to an emotional level. I am sure he cared about receiving the item -- it was expensive -- and I cared that he got it, but we didn't let that leach into our communications. If he HAD gotten all emotional and hissyfied, I'm sure that would have affected me to the extent where I might have, too. After all, we were both helpless. USPS had all the power.
So that's why I say, don't react. If you maintain a smooth wall of reason and logic, odds are the other person will calm down, too, and you can get this resolved. On the other hand, if you keep escalating it, the chance of a good outcome becomes vanishingly small.
[ edited by iareateacher on May 10, 2004 09:38 AM ]
posted on May 10, 2004 10:06:20 AM new
if the seller has puchased insurance on this item,she does not need to call the buyer at 3 am or threaten with filing fraud with USPS.All she needs to do is whip out the form and fill out her part and mail it to the buyer.
Does sam walton call at 3 am in the morning and insult the customer?
Does neiman marcus.tifany,cartier or even sears and bestbuy call customer at 3 in the morning??
-sig file -------we eat to live,not live to eat.
Benjamin Franklin
posted on May 10, 2004 10:36:15 AM newyou were dealing with an amicable cooperative person ... the OP is not.
According to him, you mean.
All we have is the OP's representation of the seller, which I don't rely on fully for two reasons:
1) People tend to present themselves and their own actions in the best possible light
2) He is male, the seller is female. Do I really need to say more? I've never met a man who wasn't convinced, secretly or not-so-secretly, that all women are at some level raving irrational creatures, impossible to get along with. (While they pride themselves as being creatures of pure logic, of course.)
I counsel calm because your behavior can and does affect the other person. Charlton Heston was asked not long ago what the secret is for being married more than 50 years. "Two words," he said. "`I'm sorry.'"
posted on May 10, 2004 10:57:11 AM new
So, the OP is guilty of something until YOU prove him innocent in your court of law? On this board, we have to assume that OPs are telling the truth and advise them as we can based on that. If we were to assume that all OPs on this board are exaggerating or lying, we may as well not post anymore. Not all males act like you say they do. Sounds like you had a bad experience with a man. At least that's how you come off.
