posted on May 30, 2004 12:20:13 PM newOne of the reasons I want to file the NPB and FVF is to close the loop definitively, so I can relist that book with no worries.
If you agree to cancel sale with no FVF, and trade pleasant feedback, you should not have any worries about relisting this book right away.
You will have an email with him saying the canceled but no FVF deal is ok, and have his positive feedback for the transaction.
This person would obviously rather spend $7.00 than have a FVF done whether it is mutual or not. Not everyone has the thorough knowledge of mutual FVF and the thought of cancelling an eBay transaction can be scary. Even if someone tells you it will be alright, it can still be worrisome.
posted on May 30, 2004 12:38:41 PM new
I also agree with TnErnie.
If you take his money for the transaction, and instead substitute a different book by mutual agreement, technically you are not entitled to a FVF.
It does not appear the buyer should have to acknowledge a mutual cancellation with eBay, when he completed the transaction in a mutually agreed to manner.
It may appear you are the one who tried to complete the sale, and get your fees back, while threatening to file a report with eBay and report him to eBay as a "problem bidder." if he did not agree to let you get your fees back.
I am not trying to be critical of you, just reflective of the situation.
posted on May 30, 2004 01:25:42 PM new
Maybe he actually absorbed a little of that "education" I've been trying to impart.
rozrr... You are the FLAKE! NOT THE BUYER!
Get off of your Soap Box and stop acting like a Pompous Ass!
Buyer doesn't give a Rats... if the book belonged to your deceased father or if it came from the local thrift store. He offered to make payment, if you hassle him I hope he reports YOU to Ebay...
I'm concerned that he's going to flip flop on me again. That on one side, first, he said: "At four bucks it's a bargan and a half. Perhaps you might get a better price by putting it up again."
What if I had taken him at his word and re-listed it immediately, and then he decided he wanted it for his friend?
I'm not sure that eBay would consider an agreement to cancel made via email to be definitive - email can be altered.
If he agreed in email to take the other book as a substitute, and I could prove via the delivery confirmation that I did send him a book, I think I would be on firmer ground with just an email agreement.
I've had only two NPBs, and both did finally send checks long after the fact. In-between, I did a "live chat," and the service rep told me I was free to re-list immediately since the payment was way overdue. So, when their checks finally did come in, I responded in email with a copy of the "live chat" attached. Then, I voided and returned the checks. I already had other buyers. And, they didn't give me a hassle. I didn't neg them, and they didn't neg me. They accepted that they lost out because they took too long to get the check in the mail - with both, it was three weeks or more.
Someone else asked: Why post if your mind is already made up?
Because eBay has no good mechanism for dealing with this. Last night, I had a "live chat" rep agree with me that in a situation where a buyer doesn't want to buy after all, and I don't want to force him into paying for something he doesn't want, there should be a mechanism for an immediate post-sale cancellation - no penalty, no foul, if I, as the seller, don't want to penalize him for his goof.
Also, my ads are very clear on "US bidders only." Over and above, the "will ship to the US only," there's a block of text that emphasizes that I don't ship outside of the US and I don't make exceptions.
But I get lots of non-US bidders anyway.
Usually, I catch them by their email addresses, but sometimes, when I have a lot of auctions closing fast, one gets by me.
I just had one last Tuesday - guy had a Yahoo address, and I missed that his "location" was France.
The attitude of the "live chat" reps is that if the bidder disregarded the TOS on US only, I'm free to ignore their winning bids and make a "second chance offer" to the underbidder in the US on the spot.
Then I point out that the non-US bidder could leave negative feedback, and they say that unfortunately that's true. And, they confirm that I have to file an NPB and FVF to get back the fees on the "sale" to the first bidder, and yes, someone who doesn't speak English very well might not understand the NPB/FVF process, but they don't have anything that would help.
So, I email the non-US bidder and emphasize - best as I can, in very simple English - that I'm a small-time seller and international shipping is too much for me. Most have been pretty conciliatory and have apologized. Some cuss me out in bad English.
There are just these gaps where eBay could and should institute a quick and simple process. These kinds of problems are not rare or unusual.
posted on May 30, 2004 01:43:11 PM newI'm concerned that he's going to flip flop on me again. That on one side, first, he said: "At four bucks it's a bargain and a half. Perhaps you might get a better price by putting it up again."
What you can do is be fair and gentle with this person and when there is a settlement, go with it and do not worry about him flip flopping. Give him a way out where he is not at fault.
So far, it appears this board feels you have been sentimentally unreasonable in dealing with this person.
You can only do so much, but you have to do your part to make this work.
You are getting advice from people with years of selling experience, and thousands of transactions giving you some great advice.
Like Fluffy said, all you are doing is arguing the advice away instead of listening. It is time to let this poor guy off the hook, and move on.
posted on May 30, 2004 01:47:36 PM new
Unless you keep up your unjustified threats, the worst thing that will come out of this transaction is bad feedback.
If you get together with this person and do not FVF him, possibly even the feedback can be salvaged.
posted on May 30, 2004 02:02:09 PM new
The seller says: What makes this difficult - and this is clear in my ads - I'm selling the books from my late father's model railroading library, so it's not just book. It's one of my father's books - great book, in top condition - and I don't want to send it to someone who will probably just trash it."
She should not be on eBay at all with this attitude.
posted on May 30, 2004 02:07:03 PM new
I have an idea… Why don’t you pre-approve all potential bidders (as someone has already suggested) and to take it a step further, have them submit a sworn and signed affidavit stating they will in no way "trash" the merchandise you are selling. You can never been too careful.
Just kidding.
This has to be one of the most idiotic threads I’ve read in awhile, well at least since last Sunday. You bidder made a mistake and thinking you were of sound mind and reasonable maturity, asked if he could substitute another book. You agreed but with strings attached. When he said he would go ahead and send money because it wasn’t worth the hassle, you went ballistic because (gasp!) he said he would give it to a friend. I’m sure after your last response to him, he’s thinking he’s dealing with a nutcase.
If you’re so attached to this stuff 2 years later (and it is just “stuff”), it’s time for you to STOP SELLING IT and haul yourself to a shrink. Seriously. The flake here is not the bidder but rather you.
posted on May 30, 2004 02:28:11 PM new
Wow. I just went back and read this entire thread again; and honestly, it seems like you are just hell-bent and determined to crucify this buyer. He has offered to pay and that's not good enough. Hell, I even offered to buy the book (and another one, at that), but it seems you are not looking for positive resolution on this transaction.
I agree with the others that this transaction is way too emotional and has no place on eBay. If I were in your place, I would email the buyer, apologize for all the dramatics, and do my best to complete the transaction. Then I would not list any other items I was emotionally attached to. Just my opinion...
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"The more I want to get something done, the less I call it work." - Richard Bach
posted on May 30, 2004 02:39:00 PM new
Here! Here! Thank you Lucy and Dixielou!
This seller has really ticked me off..with all of the Attitude! If these books had such a sentimental value to you, why didn't you keep them instead of trying to make the almighty buck from selling them? And then getting all bent out of shape when an innocent buyer comes along and doesn't show the right amount of Holy Reverence to your precious book! How annoying are you!
posted on May 30, 2004 03:17:58 PM new
NEROTER: ppphhhhhtttttbbbbbpppppttttthhh!!
I was intentionally crude. I did not feel like wasting the time to sugar coat my reply as have some of the more recent posters. Go lick your sensibilities. I was trying to wake up A FLAKE to the fact that there was no control once the sale was complete. I am not going to reiterate the excellent observations already made, read the posts.
This seller is WASTING $10.00 WORTH OF TIME ON A 10 CENT PROBLEM !! The buyer made a reasonable request and the seller agreed, but wanted to have her cake and eat it too. She could have posted twenty auctions in the time it took to post here with this bilge.
I am convinced you are a PC bleeding heart liberal and probably just as flaky as the OP.
Excuuuuuuse me. (not really, that's just an expression)
posted on May 30, 2004 03:34:18 PM new
I think I am reading between the lines. You do not want to sell this book for $4.99. I think, you think it should have gone higher and you don't want to complete your auction. Is that right? If that is the case start your auctions higher. Neglus once said, she is a postcard seller, If the book is what your buyer wanted and he is the only buyer he will buy it at your price. If not you auction would get no bids. Then relist it at a lower price. Read the feedback of your buyer. He sounds like a down right sort of guy that I would like bidding on my auctions. Pays promptly, looks like he gives no hassle to the seller.
If he doesn't want the book let him out of the auction and move on. Remember it is hard to sell personal property. Try going to a estate sale where family members are running it. Prices are sky high and nobody will buy. I know that sounds harsh but that is what the real world is about. Good Luck.
posted on May 30, 2004 03:55:35 PM new
I'm sorry, parklane, I agree with neroter. You're being a horses behind. Whether or not you agree with the original OP, you seem to be the one with the attitude. If the OP was wasting $10 of your valuable time, I suggest you not post to this thread. That would solve your $10 issue.
rozrr
I have to agree with many posters here. It appears that either you were hoping to get more for the book or you are having a hard time parting with your father's things. They are just "stuff" and not your father. From personal experience, I know it's hard to part with sentimental objects. Sometimes it becomes a necessity (as I'm sure most or all of us here know). If you really don't need to sell these items, I'd put them into storage until such a time you feel comfortable selling them.
posted on May 30, 2004 04:44:39 PM new
If he sends payment and you don't send the book he can report you to eBay as a non-performing seller. And if that happens, I hope he does. Sellers like this we definitely don't need.
posted on May 30, 2004 06:12:33 PM new
I would bet this guy (the buyer) thinks twice before bidding again. Complete the transaction and move on, then take a break from eBay because you are obviously not thinking straight.
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If you build it they will come........
posted on May 31, 2004 01:02:59 AM new
OK, here's the conclusion.
Gouseinc -
I took your advice and apologized to him. He in turn apologized to me. He assured me that he really did want the book as a "great gift" for a friend, and it would have a "good home," though he still felt I could do better if I re-listed. He said that when he bought this book initially, he paid $16 plus tax for it.
I said I didn't care about the $4.99 minimum bid so long as the book had a good home. Much of this is stuff we tried to give away three years ago, but the problem has always been finding people in the GNY who want this stuff. That's why so much of my father's stuff has ended up in places like California, Texas, Georgia, and Michigan, where people still have big houses and the space to build layouts.
He said he wasn't aware of the intricacies of the selling process, and he was surprised at how the fees add up. I said that part of that was that I had opted to use additional photo services from eBay and Vendio because as a buyer, I felt that you just can't "see" things well enough with a lot of the ads on eBay. But it was OK because the buyers like all the photos, and most things sell, so I felt it was a fair trade-off.
He said he was an older guy and a college professor who was finally building his layout later in life. That in turn surprised me because from his first emails, he sounded like one of those kids who bid frivously and then try to flip you off.
posted on May 31, 2004 01:15:27 AM new
I said, look, if you goof don't be shy about contacting the seller and asking for a cancellation while the auction is still in progress, and most sellers will oblige. Much easier, two-minute process, if the auction is still live, but a real pain if it closes and you have to go through the 17-day thing before you can relist.
Then we struck up a chat. He says he was caught up in an estate situation where a family member basically robbed him of the Lionel trains his father bought for him in the 1940's and he could never afford to replace them. He said: "You're lucky your father left you all these wonderful treasures."
Then I said if he's finally building his layout, I have other books I would be willing to give him as freebie extras, and I gave him a list of possibilities. Also, if he was looking for any train magazines, I'm looking to give a lot of those away. We have an awesome number back at the house in NJ.
Oh, he said he would send the check next week, and I said fine.
So, all's well that ends well. Gousinc, thanks for the good advice. His first responses were those brief fragments you sometimes get in email. Once he understood why I was upset, he took the time to write more substantial emails.
