Coonr
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posted on April 4, 2002 09:34:28 PM new
he says that PayPal is asking for permission to debit his bank account
And quite simply, I do not think that is accurate.
Just point me to it, or quote the part that says a user cannot close a restricted account.
What happend when you tried to close your account?
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frustratedguy
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posted on April 4, 2002 10:20:43 PM new
Sorry for creating such a stir!
In my case, the seller was found to be at fault. As for the money part, everyone is happy. I have no money in my account, because I never keep a balance. Although Paypal found the seller at fault and gave me my money back, they still have my account on restriction because I stopped payment. They do indeed want a bunch of documents (copy of your driver's license or valid ID, a copy of a current bank account statement, and a copy of a utility or phone bill with the fax cover sheet) faxed to them. I just checked what they wanted in the way of the bank account, and it appears that they have backed down a bit. Now the only want me to add a bank account to my file. (I stopped payment on the bank account.) They used to point me to a .pdf file that required a notary to sign giving them the right to debit my account.
The problem here is that I was innocent, and proven innocent but they still want all this information. Damon/Paypal just want to make life difficult when a consumer exercises their rights!
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ltlcrafty1
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posted on April 5, 2002 11:40:04 AM new
Damon, along with anyone else that claims they 'know' a user is not allowed to close a restricted account - are also avoiding my question! JUST TELL ME WHERE IT SAYS THAT! The thundering silence I get on this particular question tells me everything!
PayPal violates it's own terms of service by not allowing a user to close a restricted account. Damon and coonr - I'll take (both of your) lack of responses as an affirmative. But thanks for being sooo darn helpful! :')
[ edited by ltlcrafty1 on Apr 8, 2002 03:54 PM ]
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ltlcrafty1
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posted on April 5, 2002 12:10:35 PM new
frustratedguy,
Hey, you're not the one causing the stir! I just hope you get your issue solved to your satisfaction. Be very careful though (about adding your bank account)... I believe the system will still automatically default to the bank account for payments, and if you read the terms of service, there is a section that gives them permission to collect $$ owed 'by any means necessary'. Knowing what I now know about paypal, this would include debiting your bank account.
coonr - FYI - when my account was restriced - there were no $$ owed to anyone. (They charged my credit card immediately for the amount). I was so fed up with not being able to get any kind of response out of paypal, all I wanted to do was close my account. When your account is restricted, the first page that comes up when you logon to paypal, where it tells you your account status - says "Account is Restricted" - & it will not allow you to close your account. I don't remember now if it was a pop-up message or what, but I could not close my account. Damon even agrees that this is true. I just want to know where it says this. I've seen where it says "you may close your account at any time..." etc. I've never seen anything to the effect that a user is not allowed to close a restricted account.
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andrew123s
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posted on April 5, 2002 07:48:18 PM new
Coonr, Frustratedguy is not the only person I've seen with that problem. I have seen several other stories in the past which involved PayPal asking them to sign and notarize a form giving PayPal the right to debit their bank account. The fact is, there is plenty PayPal can do to verify the bank account is the user's, plain and simple. How about initiating their own verification process again? How about asking for a bank statement? All of this is better than forcing the user to give permission to PayPal to debit their bank account.
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mrfoxy76
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posted on April 6, 2002 06:36:42 PM new
i never really understood why paypal needs soo many documents i remember the time i faxed them driving license, bank statements other BS and they still refused to verify me 
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ltlcrafty1
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posted on April 10, 2002 11:10:53 AM new
How about it Damon?
I see you've been very active on this board the past day or two. Still don't have an answer for me on this ? though, right? (Just to keep you on track...) The question is:
Does it not state, in your User Agreement, Under User Responsibilities - Paragraph 11 'Closing Your Account' - "You may close your account at any time..."?
And doesn't it go on to say... "if an investigation is pending at the time you close your account...", indicating that even if there IS a $$ amount involved, you still have the option of closing your account?
If you are not able to answer my question, can you please refer it to someone who can?
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GU1HToM
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posted on April 11, 2002 05:58:41 AM new
I feel a clarification or change in the TOS coming soon!
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fnewbrough
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posted on April 15, 2002 01:42:53 PM new
Coonr,
You must be a real push-over. I bet your boss loves kicking you around. Rent "Fight Club" it will be good for you. That aside Paypal is not a government agency and one should not have to go through the third degree in order to get customer service or get an account unrestricted. I had a situation with Paypal recently where my account was restricted and I played hell getting anywhere with them even after faxing them the following:
1. Drivers License
2. Bank Account Statement
3. Electric Bill
I could've waited until they decided to reverse all the money in my account and hold me responsible for the actions of a criminal that they empowered in the first place by not setting high enough standards concerning verification and account security and by not emailing warnings to all customers concerning the risk of fraud involved with using the service. I even received an email concerning the Paypal Money Market Fund where they claimed that by joining it a user would gain "100% control of your money.". The lawyers must have not caught that one because the email didn't even have the common * disclaimer hidden in fine print.
I love using Paypal, but you should realize that I was a loyal customer, who had not had ANY problems with the service in the 2 years that I have had the account, and would have gladly sholdered a portion of the financial burden after being scammed but the CSR wouldn't even try to reach an amicable solution acknowledging that it was a combination of Paypal's overly broad marketing in order to maintain customer confidence and several misconceptions on my part that led to the situation in the first place. Instead they tried to stick me with the whole thing. Luckily I was able to get outside government help, which after one email, got everything fixed and it didn't cost me a penny forcing Paypal to get the money from where they should've got it from in the first place, the criminals who were running the scam. Now I am extremely careful when using the service and read the TOS regularly and don't rely on "verified user status" as an indication of anything concerning the security of the payment or the validity of it. I don't accept payments through Paypal for any transactions larger than $200.00 and immediately withdraw any payments sent to me.
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ltlcrafty1
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posted on April 19, 2002 12:49:54 PM new
Welcome Back Damon!
Could you please answer my question now? Once again, the question is:
Does it not state, in your User Agreement, Under User Responsibilities - Paragraph 11 'Closing Your Account' - "You may close your account at any time..."?
And doesn't it go on to say... "if an investigation is pending at the time you close your account...", indicating that even if there IS a $$ amount involved, you still have the option of closing your account?
Where does it say that a user cannot close a restricted account?
If you are not able to answer my question, can you please refer it to someone who can?
And don't just say "per the user agreement, a user cannot close a restricted account"... my question is WHERE DOES IT SAY THIS? Doesn't it say just the opposite (i.e., "You may close your account AT ANY TIME..." ??
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ltlcrafty1
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posted on June 4, 2002 03:11:59 PM new
Damon,
I thought I'd give you one more shot at answering this - since you never did. PLEASE READ THE QUESTION IN THE POST (JUST ABOVE THIS MESSAGE) FROM 4/19 VERY CAREFULLY.
I guess I can assume that you're planning to wait until PayPal changes it's Terms of Use to address this issue before you answer(?)
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dealerjim
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posted on June 5, 2002 12:54:23 PM new
He will probably wait until the TOS change and then he will post freely about how its been that way all along. He did the same thing over on the eBay boards. There was a guy over there that got a bogus reversal and Damon quoted over and over again the TOS from after the transaction where they were clearly different from when the transaction occurred. Just another way for PrayPal to pass the buck.
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Coonr
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posted on June 5, 2002 01:15:20 PM new
There was a guy over there that got a bogus reversal and Damon quoted over and over again the TOS from after the transaction where they were clearly different from when the transaction occurred.
No one got a bogus reversal. Kevin refused to acknowledge the applicable part of the Terms. They have/had NOT changed.
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dealerjim
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posted on June 5, 2002 02:23:56 PM new
coon, maybe you should take off those blinders you are wearing and maybe you will see that they changed the TOS to reflect reversal instead of chargeback after Kevins transaction had taken place. Like I said before, just another way for your buddies at PrayPal to pass the buck.
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Coonr
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posted on June 5, 2002 03:11:34 PM new
Now your as wrong as he was. It always said your responible for any reversal.
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andrew123s
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posted on June 5, 2002 04:42:55 PM new
Coonr, it did used to say chargeback all over the TOS, and now it says reversal. Maybe it said somewhere else in the TOS that you would be responsible for reversals but they did go through and change everywhere it said chargeback to reversal. If you want proof here is a site that lets you view PayPal's TOS at many different times since PayPal opened:
http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.paypal.com
[ edited by andrew123s on Jun 5, 2002 04:45 PM ]
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ltlcrafty1
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posted on June 5, 2002 05:52:06 PM new
andrew123s
Lol - IF he wants proof?? He always wants proof, but when it proves he's wrong - he'll try to find a way to twist it around so that he's not. Once he reads it and sees that he's wrong, he'll claim your link didn't work, etc.
I honestly still just want an answer to the original question I asked in this thread, but it's not going to happen.
Yeah, PayPal is REALLY concerned about 'customer service' issues. And I just looked out my window and saw some pigs fly by.
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andrew123s
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posted on June 5, 2002 06:03:28 PM new
I'm just saying in most places in the TOS, it used to say chargeback vs. reversal.
[ edited by andrew123s on Jun 5, 2002 06:54 PM ]
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kkaaz
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posted on June 5, 2002 07:25:13 PM new
??????????????
Does this COONR person work for Paypal ? They claim to know more then everyone about Paypal including Paypal and they seem to post defensive post for anything against Paypal ?
Are they being paid for this ?
I see them posted on almost every Paypal topic here ? All day long ?
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Coonr
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posted on June 5, 2002 07:56:12 PM new
This is from the Terms of use as of June 3, 2001.
Receipt of Payments; Risk of Reversal of Transactions; Collection of Funds you owe PayPal. When you receive a payment through the Service, unless you follow the steps necessary to qualify for our Seller Protection Policy described in Part IV of this User Agreement, you are not protected against a subsequent reversal of the transaction. In the event that the sender’s transaction is reversed for any reason and you do not qualify for the Seller Protection Policy for that transaction, you will owe PayPal for the amount of the reversed transaction plus any fees imposed on PayPal as a result of the reversal. Examples of such a reversal include, but are not limited to, a credit card charge-back by the sender of the payment, and a reversal of the transaction because the sender of the payment was using a stolen credit card or unauthorized checking account.
No I don't work for Paypal. I do not get paid for posting.
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ltlcrafty1
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posted on June 5, 2002 09:30:50 PM new
What they are refering to is the change in the terms of service from 10/30/2001:
"Seller Protection Policy
General. PayPal agrees to indemnify sellers of physical goods from chargeback liability..."
And the terms of Service as they are today (as of 1/24/2002):
"Seller Protection Policy
General. PayPal agrees to indemnify sellers of physical goods from reversal liability..."
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dealerjim
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posted on June 5, 2002 10:29:47 PM new
Coonr is smarter than Damon, at least he denies working for PrayPal. Damon just flat out admits it. ROFLMFAO!!!!!
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thchaser200
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posted on June 6, 2002 03:43:33 AM new
So if I have money in my account and it gets restricted, the paypal can hold the money forever
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Coonr
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posted on June 6, 2002 05:01:16 AM new
ltlcrafty1, I know what they are refering to, but as you can see that does not change the part I posted above.
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dealerjim
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posted on June 6, 2002 08:14:42 AM new
So then you admit that the TOS before October contradicted itself? It just took those morons over at PrayPal a while to figure it out.
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Coonr
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posted on June 6, 2002 08:20:28 AM new
No the Terms of Use did not contradict its self. Its the morons that cannot understand it.
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ltlcrafty1
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posted on June 18, 2002 10:54:04 AM new
Damon -
Before this thread went off in another direction - I was asking if you could please answer the question I've asked:
Does it not state, in your User Agreement, Under User Responsibilities - Paragraph 11 'Closing Your Account' - "You may close your account at any time..."?
And doesn't it go on to say... "if an investigation is pending at the time you close your account...", indicating that even if there IS a $$ amount involved, you still have the option of closing your account?
Where does it say that a user cannot close a restricted account?
If you are not able to answer my question, can you please refer it to someone who can?
And don't just say "per the user agreement, a user cannot close a restricted account"... my question is:
WHERE DOES IT SAY THIS?
Doesn't it say just the opposite (i.e., "You may close your account AT ANY TIME..."??
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