merrie
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posted on June 6, 2008 06:19:45 AM new
I am steamed, need advice.
I have a Canadian buyer that bought an expensive art glass vase from me. Sent it international priority which includes insurance.From the start he bugs me for the tracking # which was in my husband's possession since he shipped the box on his way out of town. Sent him that info ASAP. Even before the PO notifies me that the package is delivered, buyer claims damage.
Sends me photos of a vase that looks like it got hit with a sledgehammer.I expected a chip or a crack. It is substantial vase weighs over 4 pounds.
I call PO file an international insurance claim. They say it can take several weeks. 4 DAYS later he files a "Not as Described" dispute with PayPal.
He now claims that I will receive the funds, which is not what the PO rep said and the Canada no longer does visual inspections which is what my PO rep said for him to do and he did do and they, Canadian PO, said the package was properly package and the damage was caused by improper handling.
Any advise. Anyone have this happen before??
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niel35
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posted on June 6, 2008 07:39:46 AM new
I was on the USPS site to see if they had a printable claim form but all I got was it takes 5 days to receive one. I guess you checked his feedback to see if this has happened before. My Pac and Ship guy told me to never put FRAGILE stickers on anything. The delivery people people see this as a sign to handle the package even rougher. Hope someone can help you out, Merrie.
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hwahwa
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posted on June 6, 2008 08:41:42 AM new
Not sure what you mean?Did the Canadian post office said improper handling so it will honor the claim?
I remember a case where I shipped an item to Australia and it broke,so the buyer would have to take it to Aussie post office with the insuranc form I sent him,the Aussie office will pay him and then settle with USPS since I paid the premium here.
You can call USPS 800 number and ask to speak to someone who handles intl shipping.
Filing Paypal complaint as item not as described is a waste of his time,it has to be 'item significantly not as described' and this is not the case with you.
Paypal no longer get involved with squabbles like missing a part or item not working or color is different.
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Google does not hire stupid people.
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fluffythewondercat
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posted on June 6, 2008 09:01:13 AM new
What are you talking about? PayPal most certainly does get involved in SNAD disputes. And "crushed to bits" is probably not the way it was described in the auction.
fLufF
--
The prettiest Czechoslovakian jewelry you ever did see! Hurry, before it's gone.
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merrie
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posted on June 6, 2008 09:50:58 AM new
When I spoke to a rep on the phone she told me that the claim was filed. Cannot do it on-line because I did not purchase the postage on-line.
Went to my local PO today and talked to them, not really much help, either. It appears to be a run around due to 2 countries. My local guy says it is handled by a separate insurance unit. Will call again on Monday.
I do not think if an item is damaged it should be claimed as "Significantly Not as Described!!" I described it as it looked when it left my possession.
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kozersky
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posted on June 6, 2008 10:41:11 AM new
Did you try to call him? It appears that he may be only trying to make sure he receives his money back. Just as you, he is trying to do what he believes is necessary.
I would call him and try to reassure him that he will be refunded, and that you need his assistance to clear the insurance claim.
Bill K-
William J Kozersky Stamp Co.
William J Kozersky Stamp Co. Book Store
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hwahwa
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posted on June 6, 2008 01:13:41 PM new
You mean our POST OFFICE can view online and found out he has filed claim in Canada?
Then he will be paid by the Canadian post office so what is your worry?
Paypal will know this is a shipping issue and does not go under Item not as described,you should tell Paypal that the claim has been filed and he will hear from his post office.
See,it could take weeks before Paypal has the time to review your case,so you want to put your 2 cents in,else Paypal may decide that he should return the item back to you at his own expense,which opens up another can of worms,he will carp about return postage.
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Google does not hire stupid people.
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merrie
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posted on June 6, 2008 01:28:42 PM new
hwahwa: Do you mean I should call PayPal? I have been responding to every one of his comments through PayPal, but I don't know if they ever review them. Thanks.
[ edited by merrie on Jun 6, 2008 01:33 PM ]
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merrie
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posted on June 9, 2008 09:47:45 AM new
Called international USPS, they said everything my buyer claimed is incorrect. The claim was filed with Canada Post the day I called, now it is up to Canada post to do a visual inspection.
Canada Post never even logged the item as being delivered.
Spoke to someone from Paypal. They said I did everything right but did not offer any advice or information. It was just sort of a pat on the head and "I know these things can be difficult" kind of conversation.
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hwahwa
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posted on June 9, 2008 10:10:01 AM new
No,I dont mean call Paypal,I mean you should log into Paypal account and let them know this is an issue of breakage in transit and is being reviewed by the post office and it is not a Paypal SNAD issue.
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Google does not hire stupid people.
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queenofcollectibles
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posted on June 9, 2008 11:32:38 AM new
Boy, today must be the day. I have just been exchanging heated e-mail with a person in Singapore. I sold a clock about a month ago for around $300. Winning bidder is in Portland, Oregon. I get an email from the winner wanting it shipped to Singapore. I said no that I would only ship it to the registered address in Portland. She ignores that and sends me repeated emails wanting her total to Singapore. I explain over and over that I will only ship to Portland. So she finally agrees and pays. I ship it insured through Stamps.com. That was on May 12th. Today she says she just received the clock in Singapore and it is cracked. I tell her I didn't send it to Singapore, I sent it to Portland where it was delivered on May 23rd and verified with tracking. Seems someone in Portland shipped it on to her via UPS (I shipped USPS) without inspecting the contents when it arrived in Portland. Now she wants her money back because the clock is now broken in Singapore. And while I'm typing this, a SNAD just came through from Paypal.
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kozersky
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posted on June 9, 2008 12:22:44 PM new
queen - You should be OK with this. You shipped to Portland and the item arrived safely. If there was any damaged to the item it should have been noted there, not at Singapore.
You have delivery confirmation to Portland. Your responsibilty for the contents ended at Portland. The buyer's responsibilty began in Portland. Their agent should have inspected the contents before shipping by UPS to Singapore. The buyer has to look to UPS for damages.
This should be a good test of the intelligence of PayPal agents.
Bill K-
William J Kozersky Stamp Co.
William J Kozersky Stamp Co. Book Store
[ edited by kozersky on Jun 9, 2008 12:24 PM ]
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merrie
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posted on June 9, 2008 12:26:03 PM new
"This should be a good test of the intelligence of PayPal agents."
That's what worries me!!
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queenofcollectibles
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posted on June 9, 2008 12:26:45 PM new
Thanks for your note of confidence. That's the way I'm thinking too but of course we all know that Paypal doesn't think like we do! They've taken the $300+ out of my PayPal account and it's marked temporary hold. I responded right way to the SNAD with the details so I guess now all I can do is wait and see.
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merrie
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posted on June 9, 2008 12:34:43 PM new
My money is "Being held" also.
When I spoke to the agent today he said that Paypal does not do anything until it is escalated up to a claim. That doesn't make a lot of sense since they are already holding my money.
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kozersky
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posted on June 9, 2008 12:38:45 PM new
Have you all seen the area where you can place a Customer Service Message at the PayPal site. It is located in your Profile.
The message is displayed to the buyer before they can file a PayPal dispute.
Bill K-
William J Kozersky Stamp Co.
William J Kozersky Stamp Co. Book Store
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queenofcollectibles
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posted on June 9, 2008 12:41:29 PM new
So we just have to wait to see if the buyers decide to change the dispute to a claim? Paypal says she has until June 29th to escalate this to a claim or it will automatically cancel. Everything I put in the response to the dispute was what I had already told the buyer so if PayPal doesn't look at that what good is it? She will probably up it to a claim because I know she didn't like what I had told her.
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hwahwa
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posted on June 9, 2008 04:06:50 PM new
For that kind of money,Paypal will withold the amount before it escalates to a claim,what if you withdraw the money and there is nothing left when the claim is settled in the buyer favor?
Now,she is in Singapore and complaned it is broken,wonder if she has changed her address registered with Paypal from Oregon to Singapore?
If she still have the Oregon address,you better save your emails to show Paypal that she has the clock forwarded to Singapore and you are not responsible for breakage.
See,they are abusing SNAD clause,anything is now SNAD .
You should also go to Ebay and make a copy of the Ebay invoice showing her Oregon address just in case she changed it to Singapore.
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Google does not hire stupid people.
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queenofcollectibles
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posted on June 9, 2008 04:27:53 PM new
Thanks for your suggestions. I had checked her paypal address and from what I can see it does still say Oregon but that is just the transaction details page. It also says Non-US Verified. The name on the PayPal account is different from the name I shipped to but the address is the same for PayPal and Ebay (also still Oregon). I guess it's a bit confusing because the registered addresses are in the US but the email address states Non-US Verified. How can that be? One thing in my favor is that she admits in writing that they did not open or inspect the package when it arrived in Portland. It wasn't until I told her that I can no way be responsible for damage if it wasn't checked in Portland that she then decided that my packing materials were faulty - they weren't - the clock was wrapped all around in 3/8" foam, then wrapped in heavy cardboard and put in a box surrounded with packing peanuts - I think she was grasping at straws but now of course she figured out that she could try a SNAD. So all is on hold - including my money and I am really P***ed. From now on, when I have a gut feeling that a transaction might go bad, I'm just going to cancel it. I'm going to get a neg on this one either way and my stars will end up in the toilet. And there will be no way for me to warn other sellers. 88 characters isn't nearly enough to explain.
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hwahwa
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posted on June 9, 2008 07:09:48 PM new
Non US verified means she has not verified her bank account,to verify bank account,she will let Paypal made small deposits and then she will tell Paypal what they are.
But 'non US' says she is outside the country so the Oregon address must be a forwarding address??
But you said her Oregon address is confirmed,so it must be where she is getting her credit card statement each month.
I would also tell Paypal you packed it well for a domestic journey,not overseas.
Why would anyone buy an expensive clock and have it shipped to Singapore??
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Google does not hire stupid people.
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carolinetyler
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posted on June 10, 2008 04:05:34 AM new
I had an international claim once, 2 years ago, it still has not been paid. Not kidding, it's pathetic. I threw in the towel on getting it paid 6 months ago. If you have a snad filed against you in paypal - I would go ahead and escalate it to a claim, as it will take 35-45 days for Paypal to make a decision anyway - and no, they do not look at those comments posted by both you and the buyer - so make sure when you escalate you mention all relevant information. (Paypal told me that themselves).
The sad part is, they will rule against the seller automatically in this case, and you will have to refund - and then the buyer does not help in any way, shape, or form in the insurance process - so the claim does not get paid. Been there, done that - it makes me so angry just thinking about it.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 Caroline
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queenofcollectibles
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posted on June 10, 2008 04:42:34 AM new
I'm not sure if you were addressing mine or Merrie's problem but my buyer is not technically international. Their buyer ID and paypal confirmed address is in the US and I shipped the package via USPS to the confirmed address in Portland. It arrived there on May 23 and it was insured. The problem is that someone sent the unopened package on to the buyer who is really in Singapore via UPS. When she received it and opened it yesterday, she found it had a crack in the glass and is holding me responsible for the damage. Since she didn't open it in Portland and I had nothing to do with them shipping it to Singapore, why should I be held responsible for the damage? Neither she nor I can prove that the damage occurred between Chicago and Portland and not between Portland and Singapore. If the package would have been opened in Portland and found to be damaged, I would have filed a claim for her. But how can I do that now with the package in Singapore with a UPS address label on the box (she sent me pics - box was obviously dropped)? She has escalated the dispute to a claim and I sent my response to Paypal. Of course they only give you 500 characters so you can't tell the whole story. So now I will just hold my breath and hope. Of course if Paypal finds in her favor, that will really open up a big can of worms. How can we possibly be protected when you think you're selling and shipping to someone in the US when you are actually selling to someone out of the country and they can file a claim and get their money back through paypal on a forwarded package? I wish I didn't have to take Paypal but 98% of my sales are paid for that way and with the downturn in the economy, my sales have dropped considerably compounded by ebay's screwing up the search again, so I hate to cut off the quick and easy payment method for my customers - most of whom are honest buyers.
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hwahwa
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posted on June 10, 2008 05:57:57 AM new
If your Singapore buyer loses this SNAD dispute,she could go the credit card route and file a dispute with them.
Then Paypal will hold back 300 dollars from your account and ask you to present your side of the story and forward it to VISA/MC/AMEX board.
If you lose ,Paypal will make you pay $10 chargeback fee.
Did your buyer look into having the clock repaired locally?
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Google does not hire stupid people.
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queenofcollectibles
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posted on June 10, 2008 06:09:04 AM new
She buys and sells Jefferson Clocks and Jefferson clock motors. The clock she purchased from me was a Jefferson Suspense clock. I guess I just don't see how they can turn a significantly not as described claim into a damage claim or I guess that would be the other way around. They should be two separate things. Why should paypal get involved in a damage dispute? If I would have shipped her a wind up alarm clock I could see the SNAD but the clock was exactly as described - it just arrived broken. I held up my end by shipping to a confirmed address (although she kept insisting I ship to Singapore), it was packed well and insured - to Portland not to Singapore! My problem with this comes in where they didn't check the contents when it arrived in Portland and just shipped the box via a different carrier (UPS) on to Singapore and then expect me to be responsible for damage 17 days after it arrived in Portland with the clock in a different country. I've been selling on ebay for over 8 years and I've packed a lot of items from jewelry to skis so I know how to pack and I use all new packing materials. This just leaves me shaking my head.
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merrie
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posted on June 10, 2008 06:19:32 AM new
queenofcollectibles: Shaking our heads is right. Who know how Paypal will decide. My item was shipped to Canada, well packaged. In one of his earlier emails the buyer said, "when it fell." I replied, "When it FELL!!" He said he meant when it fell while in the PO hands. Who knows.
All I know is I have only had one other damaged international item and it went to Canada, also.That customer was very patient. After about 9 months he filed a dispute with PayPal. It was too late for them to get involved. I never got any insurance money and as far as I know neither did he even though I filed the claim as directed and the package was packed very well, triple boxed,etc.
I have been on Ebay for more than 10 years, I ship to Australia, Japan,have even sent a package to Turkey and never had another damage report except for these 2 to Canada.
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hwahwa
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posted on June 10, 2008 06:30:21 AM new
To get Paypal involved,they have to file SNAD or item not received,Paypal is no longer involved with petty stuff like color is different or item does not work too well??
Come to think of it,if Paypal rules in her favor,she would have to return the item with online trackable information which means UPS or Fed Exp,is it worth it?
Since she only paid you to ship to OREGON,she would still be out of the $$ from Oregon to Singapore.
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Google does not hire stupid people.
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queenofcollectibles
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posted on June 10, 2008 06:39:15 AM new
I had a ridiculous Paypal claim a couple years ago where I sold and shipped a $20 bedspread and the buyer claimed they received a can of salmon and a children's toy in the box from me. This went on for a couple weeks and Paypal decided that the buyer was due a refund but that the refund would not come out of my Paypal account and that they had to send the contents to Paypal within 10 days or the claim would be closed. They never sent anything back. But that was $20 and this is $300. But you're right, it will be expensive for her to ship the clock back from Singapore. One thing my husband mentioned last night is that whoever shipped it to her from Oregon may not have stated the full value of the item with UPS for customs reasons, hence she could not get a full value refund from UPS - just a theory. She could also just figure she could keep the clock, sell the parts and still get her money back if she deals with Paypal.
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merrie
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posted on June 10, 2008 06:48:53 AM new
There are all sorts of scammers out there and now that Ebay has made them very, very aware that sellers can no longer leave negative feedback, they can scam away for a very long time or just a few times when it suits their purpose and sellers cannot warn other sellers.
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queenofcollectibles
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posted on June 25, 2008 11:21:51 AM new
Well, I have a bit of an update on this Paypal claim situation. Thankfully, I am off the hook for the Singapore clock....Woo-Hoo! But on the down side....the day after the woman filed that claim, a guy in Germany filed an item not as described claim as he hadn't received his package. I shipped it on May 19th (1st class Int'l - never again)and then a week later found a part I forgot to include so I had to eat $11.00 in postage to ship it out. He received the second box but not the first. I explained the situation to him and asked him to wait at least 30 days, but he didn't so in 2 days I had 2 claims against me. This morning I heard from Paypal in my favor on the clock and this afternoon my mail lady returned the first box from Germany to me. It is marked insufficient address. I used the same address for both shipments and he got one of them. Anyway, the point of all this is that I called Paypal to tell them I got the box back. In speaking with the the rep, she said just to wait until Paypal finishes the review because from now on, all Item not as Described claims will be found in the buyers favor. Paypal will tell them that they have to return the item to the seller to get their full refund. Some probably won't bother as the buyer is responsible for the shipping cost back to the seller. But what about the people that will send back a different item altogether.....with a tracking number so they get their full refund from Paypal? Will Paypal allow us to file an "Original Item Not Returned" claim?
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ladyjewels2000
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posted on June 25, 2008 02:19:27 PM new
Good question Queen - but I fear they won't.
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