posted on March 22, 2001 05:59:05 AM new
More proof that police twist and break the law everyday and then lie about it when confronted. Why, because we are the police and we do what we want because we know most complaints are swept under the rug or discredited because we are the police and we would not break the law or lie.
posted on March 22, 2001 06:20:35 AM new
And how much would they have to pay you to be a policeman in Detroit? I know they couldn't pay me enough!
Cops are like anyone else, some good, some bad and a lot that fall into the grey areas. It's certainly harder to be a cop nowadays and a lot more dangerous.
To serve and protect? Maybe in the little crossroads towns like I live in, but even the good cops get quickly disillusioned when they have to work in the big cities. Seems like the only cops they can even get nowadays are the ones wanting to be cops for the power trip.
posted on March 22, 2001 06:24:22 AM new
How to get arrested in Maryalnd...
drive a car.
There is a big furor now over racial profiling, the
practice of race-based stops, detentions, and searches of minority motorists only because they drive a car, they are unlawfully and unreasonably detained and/or searched, ostensibly for drugs or weapons.
posted on March 22, 2001 08:45:06 AM new
Sometimes it's necessary to examine police behavior in order to keep them in line.
This thread is not a gossip thread or a
nonsense thread and I don't think that it
should be attacked as
"another cop bashing thread
I believe that this is happening all over the
country. But this is a link to my area.
posted on March 22, 2001 08:48:51 AM newWould it be better if everybody ignored situations like this, and pretended they never happened?
Actually discussion of this particular news article could be interesting. Unfortunately, statements like
More proof that police twist and break the law everyday and then lie about it when confronted. Why, because we are the police and we do what we want because we know most complaints are swept under the rug or discredited because we are the police and we would not break the law or lie. and
There is a big furor now over racial profiling, the practice of race-based stops, detentions, and searches of minority motorists only because they drive a car, they are unlawfully and unreasonably detained and/or searched, ostensibly for drugs or weapons.
have been done ad nauseum in every thread posted that discusses any law enforcement issue in the news, turning said threads into the "cop bashing" du jour. Have at it and have fun.
posted on March 22, 2001 09:04:45 AM newActually discussion of this particular news article could be interesting. Unfortunately, statements like...
...have been done ad nauseum in every thread posted that discusses any law enforcement issue in the news, turning said threads into the "cop bashing" du jour.
People entrusted to use lethal weapons to defend our rights who abuse that trust deserve to have their actions examimed. Ignoring the subject because some will not discuss it in the manner in which you would prefer will not make the problems go away.
posted on March 22, 2001 10:06:10 AM new
Let me stray off topic for just a second...About NOT discussing issues that matter in America, just consider the election of George Bush. The virtual absence of protest from the Democratic party, the Civil Rights organizations, the trade unions, academia and the press should tell
you that this country, by saying nothing is accepting the theft of the election.
Now, it is suggested that we should not "bash Police". Nonsence.
posted on March 22, 2001 10:31:00 AM new
Katy: now you KNOW that you are one of my favorite peeps, right?
But even here, in this beautiful scenic small town setting, the cops are corrupt, vile, and criminal.
Hell, even our hunting enforcment officer was booted for poaching deer...
Can you imagine that?
We have had 4 cops in the last 3 years accused of rape, and other sexually deviate charges from children, as well as woman being stopped to be questioned.
The "Cheif" of police in one town was fired and brought up on charges of stealing $168,000. in nicles, dimes, and quarters from the parking meters. He was having the metermaids meet him each day in a parking lot, bringing all the change collected.
He would put the change in his trunk, and told them that he was running an investigation.
The FBI nailed him with "planted" quarters.
When they raided his house, they found over 100,000 quarters, and he said that he saves them for his trips to the jersey "boardwalk".
posted on March 22, 2001 09:16:47 PM new
I find it somewhat ironic that gravid would chose to post that news article. I recall a recent condemnation of the press by the same poster. He expressed alarm at the media's propensity for distorting the facts. He'd personally witnessed events that were later reported inaccurately. I guess it's fair to conclude that the press is accurate only when the reporting supports one's personal agenda.
I know little of the problems faced by the Detroit Police. The article suggests to me that they are quite behind the times both in terms of dealing with the media and adjusting policy to conform to present day reality. There's no proof of any sort in the article. The arrest vs. homicide numbers are hardly damning evidence. Unless every homicide in Detroit is committed by an individual, acting alone, the figures are consistent with multiple arrests for one occurrence. A drive-by or gang killing could each account for several arrests for one event. A bank robbery that results in the heart attack death of a guard could lead to multiple arrests for homicide. In the latter case a homicide would not even be reportable to the FBI. Uniform Crime Reporting criteria are often distinct from local crimes codes.
Homicide detectives want to interview witnesses right away, before they have the opportunity to get their stories straight or to reconsider their willingness to cooperate. Cops do try to pressure murder witnesses to come into HQ following a homicide. Statements like, "I'm gonna have to ask you to come downtown" are common and deliberately misleading. Witnesses may believe they are under arrest, but they're not. It's an unfair, but effective, tactic. Everyone can recall old cop movies and TV shows where the practice was commonplace. It's also not against the law.
If the Detroit Police have a written policy that states witnesses are to be arrested it would not only be illegal, it would be ludicrous. Like most police policies, it's probably vague enough to be subject to a variety of interpretations. My guess is the wording is something like, "Witnesses will be transported immediately to the office of the homicide detectives".
My department requires that a witness be read his rights from a card similar to the Miranda warning card. We are still expected to get those witnesses to Homicide as soon as possible. Short of violating a person's rights we'll do what we can to get them there. Personally, I'm not going to jail to please some homicide guy.
One can safely conclude from the report that cop's can be devious SOB's. They are. One should not lose sight of the fact that an equal distinction also applies to reporters, attorneys, FBI guys, politicians and probably you.
-it was long and I misspelled some words. I'll leave the errors that no doubt remain.
posted on March 23, 2001 07:03:45 AM new
Xardon,
You state,
"One can safely conclude from the report that cop's can be devious SOB's. They are. One should not lose sight of the fact that an equal distinction also applies to reporters, attorneys, FBI guys, politicians
and probably you."
For a long time, I thought that was only a
problem in the south. But after living
near Washington DC and New York, I've concluded that it's a national problem.
posted on March 23, 2001 07:24:35 AM new
[i]One should not lose sight of the fact that an equal distinction also applies to reporters, attorneys, FBI guys, politicians
and probably you."[/i]
One glaring difference would be that reporters, attorneys, most FBI guys, politicians and most of us don't put our lives on the line every day to protect a surprisingly unappreciative citizenry.
posted on March 23, 2001 07:36:49 AM new
I think a balance needs to be struck.
Here in New York there have been a number of very serious incidents in the past few years that have seriously undermined the trust that the NYPD had and should have ideally. It's in the interest of both the communities and the police department to have a mutual understanding thing going. But things happen; sometimes unavoidable mistakes and sometimes deliberate misconduct.
So recently we got a new police commisioner, a very diplomatic guy named Bernard Kerik.
Right away he proceeded to revamp the police department. I can't think of a comprehensive list of reforms he is implementing, but he has instituted everything from mandatory community meetings which he expects the precint chiefs to deliver comprehensive reports from to having police officers politely greet and direct people who enter station houses. He regularly patrols neighborhoods so he can personally see what is out there and what he can do. Since he came into office in August he personally has made several arrests while out on his beat. His belief is that the communities and the police department need to establish trust with each other, and he is willing to take steps to mend fences. So far no one has a bad word to say about him. Inevitably something will happen (there are 40,000 officers; something is bound to go down) and I guess the real test will be how he handles it, but he's already come a long way towards calming down a volatile situation.
All in all, the police are necessary and they are there to serve. But that doesn't give license for any abuse and no one has to forgive abuse. If the police departments walk the extra mile to weed out the bad seeds I think they will find that there will be less bad seeds to weed out and also that the public will be much more tolerant and appreciative.
[ edited by jamesoblivion on Mar 23, 2001 07:37 AM ]
posted on March 23, 2001 07:42:57 AM new
They put their lives on line by forming "packs" that gun down law abiding citizens for carrying a wallet, and exiting their home.
They also put their lives on the line by ramming bathroom plungers up prisoners anus'a and breaking them off.
They also put their lives on the line by beating motorists with nightsticks, because it is considered a "sport" in LA.
Don't give me that cop hero bullsh*t... that's ancient history.
Cops today are nothing more then organized crime with a badge.
For every "honest" or "hero" cop, there are 500 a-holes with a silver sheild.
posted on March 23, 2001 07:48:01 AM new
"They"? There are 40,000 cops in the NYPD. You really think the ratio of decent cops is 500 to 1? I haven't heard that there are 80 good cops in New York and 39,500 psychos.
I don't know if you're projecting a bad experience you've had or not, but since without the police you'd be up sh*ts creek I wonder why you're painting them with such a broad stroke.
posted on March 23, 2001 07:48:28 AM new...a surprisingly unappreciative citizenry.
Maybe this has something to do with the lack of appreciation shown...
CONSENSUAL CRIMES CORRUPT LAW ENFORCEMENT
Law enforcement is based on a very simple premise: there is a perpetrator and a victim. The police catch the accused perpetrator and put him or her in jail. The courts then decide the guilt or innocence of the accused and an appropriate punishment if guilty. This protects the victim and others from further victimization and keeps the perpetrator from further perpetrations.
A serious problem arises when the accused perpetrator and the victim are one and the same. Such is the case with consensual crimes. When the police put the accused in jail, they are putting the victim in jail too. How, then, can the police protect the victim? Law enforcement, thus perverted, begins to deteriorate.
With a real crime, the genuine victim goes to the police and reports it. The police then set about to catch the criminal. With consensual crime, who reports the crime? Obviously, no one directly involved. Everyone consented to it; they're not going to be complaining to the police. The police, then, must become spies, busybodies, and entrappers in order to catch consensual criminals victimizing themselves. Imagine how demoralizing and corrupting this entire procedure can be to both police and society.
posted on March 23, 2001 07:50:26 AM new
American Skin / 41 Shots
41 shots
41 shots
41 shots
41 shots
41 shots
41 shots
41 shots
41 shots and we'll take that ride
41 shots
41 shots
41 shots
Lena gets her son ready for school
She says now on these streets Charles
You got to understand the rules
Promise me if an officer stops you'll always be polite
Never ever run away and promise momma you'll keep your hands in sight
Cause is it a gun?
Is it a knife?
Is it a wallet?
Is it a gun?
Is it a knife?
Is it in your heart?
Is it in your eyes?
This is your life
It ain't no secret
It ain't no secret
The secret my friend
You can get killed just for living in your American skin
41 shots
41 shots
41 shots
Across this bloody river to the other side
41 shots they cut through the night
You're kneeling over his body in the vestibule
Praying for his life
Is it a gun?
Is it a knife?
Is it a wallet?
Is it a gun?
Is it a knife?
Is it in your heart?
Is it in your eyes?
This is your life
It ain't no secret
It ain't no secret
Ain't no secret my friend
You can get killed just for living in your American skin
41 shots
41 shots
41 shots
Lena gets her son ready for school
She says now on these streets Charles
You got to understand the rules
Promise me if an officer stops you'll always be polite
Never ever run away and promise momma you'll keep your hands in sight
Cause is it a gun?
Is it a knife?
Is it a wallet?
Is it a gun?
Is it a knife?
Is it in your heart?
Is it in your eyes?
This is your life
This is your life
It ain't no secretn get killed just for living in your American skin
41 shots
41 shots
41 shots
Is it a gun?
Is it a knife?
Is it a wallet?
This is your life
It ain't no secret
It ain't no secret
It ain't no secret
41 shots and we'll take that ride
Across this bloody river to the other side
41 shots my boots caked in mud
We're baptized in these waters and in each other's blood
It ain't no secret
Is it a knife?
Is it a wallet?
This is your life
It ain't no secret
It ain't no secret
The secret my friend
You can get killed just for living in
You can get killed just for living in
You can get killed just for living in your American skin
posted on March 23, 2001 07:52:49 AM new
I got my black shirt on
I got my black gloves on
I got my ski mask on
This sh*t's been too long
I got my twelve guage sawed off
I got my headlights turned off
I'm 'bout to bust some shots off
I'm 'bout to dust some cops off
I'm a...
COP KILLER, better you than me
COP KILLER, f*ck police brutality!
COP KILLER, I know your family's grievin' ... F*CK 'EM!
COP KILLER, but tonight we get even
I got my brain on hype
Tonight'll be your night
I got this long-assed knife
and your neck looks just right
My adrenaline's pumpin'
I got my stereo bumpin'
I'm 'bout to kill me somethin'
A pig stopped me for nuthin'!
COP KILLER, it's better you than me
COP KILLER, f*ck police brutality!
COP KILLER, I know your family's grievin' ... F*CK 'EM!
COP KILLER, but tonight we get even
DIE, DIE, DIE, PIG, DIE!
F*CK THE POLICE!
COP KILLER, it's better you than me
COP KILLER, f*ck police brutality!
COP KILLER, I know your family's grievin' ... F*CK 'EM!
COP KILLER, but tonight we get even
F*CK THE POLICE!
F*CK THE POLICE, for Daryl Gates
F*CK THE POLICE, for Rodney King
F*CK THE POLICE, for my dead homies
F*CK THE POLICE, for your freedom
F*CK THE POLICE, don't be a p*ssy
#*!@ THE POLICE, have some muthaf*ckin' courage
FU*CK THE POLICE, sing along!
COP KILLER!
I'm a muthaf*ckin' COP KILLER!
COP KILLER!
[ edited by jamesoblivion on Mar 23, 2001 07:53 AM ]
posted on March 23, 2001 10:14:41 AM new
I've always liked poetry. When music comes up in a discussion, I use that line to express what it is about rap that I enjoy.
It's not without consideration that I defend the police. I know I only do it because I am one. The straw man is too easily knocked down. For every anecdote or factual account of police abuse there are countless incidents of positive police behavior. I'm still surprised that few apply balance to the equation. Such thinking regarding other groups would quickly be labeled prejudice or bigotry. The stereotyping and hate speech directed at police enjoys widespread appeal, especially among those who typically condemn such thinking.
Among the 50 officers I have under my command there are men, women, blacks, whites, hispanics, straights and gays. We have little in common apart from our profession. To assume we represent some monolithic mindset requires a considerable stretch of the imagination.
Twelve of my friends at work have been killed in the past 25 years. All but one shot while on duty. The total number has been larger but those twelve are the one's I've known well. They were people who liked to fish, collect things, work on their cars, spend time with their families.....
It's hard for cops to make civilain friends. Outside of our relatives and some childhood pals, we seem to be viewed as something apart from regular people. An aspect of this board that holds appeal for me is the opportunity to hear and respond to the voices of others.
There's no "power trip" associated with being a cop. The exact opposite is closer to reality. Our greatest fears have little to do with the obvious dangers of the job, but rather focus on being inadvertently fed to the meat-grinder of public opinion. Those who choose to stay on the job recognize a higher purpose to our profession and learn to accept the disdain. Witness the attention being paid to "racial profiling". Beyond a seemingly certain knowledge that it occurs and an overt acceptance of conjecture as fact, what is the evidence? Where are the comparative studies, the statistical models? I suspect it may occur in places, but I've seen no real proof. Having worked on highways, I recognize that it's hard to do, especially at night.
The police are the most visible and accessible arm of the executive branch of our government. They enforce laws created by elected politicians. Hating the police does not serve to change that government or those laws. The actual methods of accomplishing change should be well known to everyone. I employ those methods every time I vote and yet my candidates, those most supportive of change, never seem to win. One need only study the psychological works of Leon Festinger to understand my feelings. Cognitive dissonance has become my life.
The "you" in my previous post is directed at us all. A comment regarding human nature.
posted on March 23, 2001 10:28:59 AM new
I think it is a catch-22 situation. Sure, there are bad cops - but there are good ones, too. Unfortunately the bad ones get the press - the good ones do not.
Our Chief of Police just resigned - so they wouldn't fire him. There were alot of problems here - many which were being resolved "old world" style.
Well, our incredibly stupid former Police Chief (before this last one) went on TV one day and said "I don't know what we will do if the drug dealers come here. We do not have the police to handle it."
By the following weekend this town was crawling with dealers. Nice work!
Well her replacement cleaned this town up. Ok, maybe it is not how is really should have been but as a citizen who is law abiding I really didn't care how it was done - just please clean up the mess!
If you come to a small town just to ruin it - maybe you should be aware that you might end up dealing with small town justice. If it will keep my streets safe then I am fine with it.
And if they want to go swimming again, I just hope the remember to bring their towels!
My hats go off to those who indeed protect and serve. You are not paid enough for what you do. And you do not get the respect you deserve.
Oh - and to the dealers - we now have the headquarters for the National Drug Task Force Agency (or something close to that) here. STAY AWAY!
"One can safely conclude from the report that cop's can be devious SOB's. They are. One should not lose sight of the fact that an equal distinction also applies to reporters, attorneys, FBI guys, politicians
and probably you."
Then you state,
"The "you" in my previous post is directed at us all. A comment regarding human nature."
Not true. It is not human nature to be a
devious SOB
