jamesoblivion
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posted on March 23, 2001 10:31:55 AM new
The operative words are "can be".
I believe Xardon was saying that SOBs can be found in all walks of life.
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jamesoblivion
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posted on March 23, 2001 10:34:17 AM new
And yes, Helen. That is only my opinion. 
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KatyD
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posted on March 23, 2001 10:38:01 AM new
Thank you xardon for putting the truth into simple words. Most especially this:
The stereotyping and hate speech directed at police enjoys widespread appeal, especially among those who typically condemn such thinking.
Unfortunately, there are many here that do not see themselves among those you refer to in your post above. That's just the way it is, I guess. 
KatyD
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mrpotatoheadd
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posted on March 23, 2001 10:52:49 AM new
Well her replacement cleaned this town up. Ok, maybe it is not how is really should have been but as a citizen who is law abiding I really didn't care how it was done - just please clean up the mess!
You don't care how?
I find that a frightening attitude to take. I really don't like comparing something like this to the things that happened in Nazi Germany, but how do you suppose people like that get their start? The ends do not justify the means.
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jamesoblivion
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posted on March 23, 2001 10:54:10 AM new
Well said.
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bobbysoxer
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posted on March 23, 2001 11:33:51 AM new
Law enforcement personnel are human being. They have their pride (to some having their gun taken away is shameful), they are tempted by greed and so on. In any given group of human beings there good and bad. I have witnessed some who -in my opinion- excercised a power trip. The professionals with proper training are not a power trip.
I do however have the opinion that generally speaking they do have a tendency to take advantage of people's ignorance of the law.
Once an officer didn't know who I was and he thought he could do "things" thinking I didn't know my rights as well as a few other points. After he found out who I was he backoff FAST! I had another one do that too but he apologized profusely So for me this is a common occurance.
I don't condone lyrics that promote killing cops. I don't condone any lyrics that promote killing or discriminating against anyone for that matter.
In my opinion, whenever any given person feels "unjustly" attacked one feels like they are being "bashed."
"Support Your Local Sheriff"
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mrpotatoheadd
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posted on March 23, 2001 11:35:20 AM new
Oh, and one more thing...
...but as a citizen who is law abiding
By the above statement, may I conclude that you would have no problem with a policeman knocking at your door at 2AM, asking to come in and look around? After all, if you are law abiding, you should have nothing to hide, should you?
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mybiddness
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posted on March 23, 2001 11:38:54 AM new
Pocono I'm not giving you cop hero bullsh*t... And, regardless of what you might believe cops do risk their lives every day whether we recognize it or not.
Because of the type of work my family has been involved in over the last twenty plus years we have a lot of friends that are a part of the law enforcement community and my husband volunteers in a neighboring county as a licensed Deputy Constable as well - so, yes I am partial to cops.
But, we've also taught classes in Search and Rescue to the law enforcement community both within the state of Texas and across the Nation for about ten years now. In fact, my husband left just this morning to teach a class in Houston. The courses that we offer require that the officers volunteer a full weekend of their personal time to take non-mandatory - non paid training classes. You would be amazed by the numbers of men and women who are not only willing but eager to do this for the benefit of their community - and, certainly with no expectation of a thanks. And, it is the kind of thing that they do on a regular basis.
Just because there are some bad cops doesn't negate the fact that the majority are underpaid, hard working officers who face life threatening situations and bites of life that most of us will never even begin to understand. And for what? It's certainly not for the pay and it's not for the thanks.
I should put a smiley in here somewhere so you'll know I'm just talking and not attacking... but I don't see anywhere to put one. I'm just very saddened by the lack of respect for what officers do.
Blah!
Not paranoid anywhere else but here!
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HJW
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posted on March 23, 2001 01:19:42 PM new
Mybiddness,
You state,
"Just because there are some bad cops doesn't negate the fact that the majority are underpaid, hard working officers who face life threatening situations and bites of life that most of us will never even begin to understand. And for what? It's certainly not for the pay and it's not for the thanks."
-----------------
So, it's their choice. They have gone out
of their way to take a job that involves
low pay, screwing over people and possibly
being shot. A lot of people take risky jobs
but it doesn't give them the right to mistreat people and be as Xardon stated, a
deceitful SOB.
Helen
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mrpotatoheadd
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posted on March 23, 2001 01:24:19 PM new
You get respect by earning it, not demanding it.
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HJW
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posted on March 23, 2001 01:51:59 PM new
Right!!!
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gravid
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posted on March 23, 2001 03:30:12 PM new
Hi all - It is interesting what happens to a thread when you are away for awhile.
It seems a lot of people jumped on the band wagon to say this problem of arresting witnesses is widespread.
Actually the point of the article was that it is NOT widespread but rather Detroit is not following the standards of the rest of the country.
Xardon - You are right I am very skeptical of reporting but there are third parties involved in this. Maryvictoria Pyne, our FBI unit chief said the arrest numbers from Detroit are so different that they may drop them from the national tabulation because they are distorting the national statistics.
They don't really reflect what they want the numbers to show because they are counting arrests of witnesses that they know are not
actually suspects.
And the local US Attorney Saul Green warned the city about the practice about a year ago.
So it is more than the newspaper people involved here.
The fact that politics effects local police is important here because Detroit resembles
a third world country more than a typical american city in politics. It is run by strong men who give out favors and full of corruption and bribery. They can't keep the basic services running like street lights and bus service.
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mybiddness
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posted on March 23, 2001 03:49:31 PM new
Helen IMO the very fact that it is something these men and women choose to do that makes it all the more impressive to me. You lost me on the "screwing people over" part... You're saying people become police officers so that they can screw people over? I can think of about a million other ways a person could manage to screw people over if they wanted to without taking such a high risk job.
I've met hundreds of men and women in law enforcement over the years and I can count on one hand the number that seemed to either have ulterior motives or have become what could be considered corrupt cops. Granted, the nature of our work brings us in contact with the officers who are going out of their way to offer more to the communities they serve... so, of course I am seeing the most honorable of them all... and they have certainly earned my respect and I would hope the respect of many.
I can easily agree with you that there is a segment of the law enforcement community that is corrupt. But, I would think that it can also be said and that you would agree with me that there are many more that don't deserve to be painted with that same broad brush and who deserve our thanks and our respect.
Not paranoid anywhere else but here!
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Pocono
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posted on March 23, 2001 04:10:36 PM new
Perhaps it's because "friends" and "family" of these legal criminals (cops) never really get a good taste of how harrassing most of these SOBs are!
They get to carry those cute little "FOP" and "PBA" cards so they can walk from traffic stops unscathed and untiketted, and they get those neat little sheilds for their back car windows, so's that other cops know they are "above the law".
I have two brother-in-laws who are cops, and so are both their brothers and one of their fathers.
I KNOW what I am talking about, and they are not shy to tell you either.
Maybe if these badge defenders could experience REAL life without "protection" from their flatfoot friends and family, they could see the truth!
I grew up inner city, and you can't tell me what I lived...SORRY!
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mybiddness
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posted on March 23, 2001 04:16:17 PM new
Nahhhhhh... I'm still saying there are good cops and bad. Obviously I've been around more of the good (better than good) ones and you've been around more of the bad (worse than bad).
We're going to disagree on this one til the cows come home.
Not paranoid anywhere else but here!
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KatyD
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posted on March 23, 2001 04:21:14 PM new
They get to carry those cute little "FOP" and "PBA" cards so they can walk from traffic stops unscathed and untiketted, and they get those neat little sheilds for their back car windows, so's that other cops know they are "above the law".
You know I love ya, Pokey, but I have to tell you that this just isn't so. Maybe it is in your little town, but not in the big city. I have nothing to identify myself as the wife of a cop, neither in my wallet nor affixed to my car. Neither the Department nor the Police Officer's Association give out any doohicky to friends and relatives of police officers to let other law enforcement know that they are "above the law". I have a feeling that you had a bad experience with a police officer that has colored your opinion and I'm sorry for that. But when you label an entire profession as "legal criminals" and "harrassing SOB's", it's just not fair to the majority of officers who do their job honestly, bravely, and above reproach. I know about this. I'm married to one, and he IS my hero.
KatyD
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fiset
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posted on March 23, 2001 04:37:54 PM new
I've been following this thread with interest. One of my good friends is the wife of a police officer and she carries a special card and wears a small shield on her necklace and has averted at least three tickets because of it. I live in a big city in Southern California so it does happen in big cities. At a dinner party one night, my friends husband gave me one of the cards and told me to use it like a "get out of jail free" card if I ever get stopped.
One night my friends husband decided to drive home after having many drinks. While exiting the freeway, he drove his car off the exit ramp and rolled it down a short hill. He wasn't hurt but the car was pretty messed up. When the police arrived and found out he was a cop (from another district, they didn't personally know him) they quickly ordered a tow and got my friends husband home as fast as they could so he wouldn't get in any trouble. Had that been me or you or most other people, we would have been arested for drunk driving on the spot.
Granted my friends husband didn't kill anyone that night but cops can have an "above the law" attitude when it comes to one of their own that I do not agree with.
[ edited by fiset on Mar 23, 2001 04:39 PM ]
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Pocono
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posted on March 23, 2001 04:42:05 PM new
Katy: I am sure that your hubby is one of the good ones... just like I am sure that xard is.
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Pocono
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posted on March 23, 2001 04:46:27 PM new
fiset: I have been witness to MANY similar situations.
When I worked as a bouncer, an off-duty pulled his personal revolver on another patron because he was drunk.
Guess what? Cops came, took him home, no charges, no nothing.
If that was me? see ya in 5-15.
The blue wall is a pitiful example of a corrupt business known as the police force.
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mybiddness
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posted on March 23, 2001 04:50:09 PM new
Just for the record - I don't have any kind of card or emblem on the car... most of the cops I come into contact with don't know me from Adam. I just get the chance to see a lot of the good side of the profession.
I'm sorry you've had such bad experiences Pocono... sincerely sorry.
Not paranoid anywhere else but here!
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Pocono
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posted on March 23, 2001 04:59:38 PM new
I had one good experience with a cop in my life...
I was 14, and me and my friends were walking along carrying a giant cooler full of beer through Brookdale Park in NJ.
This cop pulls up behind us, and whoops his siren for us to stop.
No reason, just to harrass us I guess.
He comes up and says "what's in the cooler?"
So we say, it's flounder, we been fishin'
(uh... we were like a hundred miles from any salt water?)
He says "let me see", and opens our cooler...
UT OH!
He see's what we had in there, starts laughing, and say's, "if you guys are drinking Shlitz, that's punishment enough" ...get outta here. And let us go.
LOL... TRUE STORY!
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gravid
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posted on March 23, 2001 05:07:21 PM new
Actually I have been stopped a number of times and just given a warning and I don't have any decals or cards or anything. I was stopped last year because I turned left off the street our condos are on which is prohibited from 6 to 9. When the cop stopped me I told him the truth - I was used to turning because I started work earlier until recently and was thinking about something else and just sort of went on autopilot.
He just said better get trained to not turn or it's going to be a ticket soon and sent me on. I did not try to make some silly story up. I am sure they've heard them all.
I would really be scared to try to use one of those cards to try to get out of a ticket and find a straight guy who would really rake you over the coals for trying to weasel out of it.
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mybiddness
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posted on March 23, 2001 05:09:55 PM new
That's priceless Pocono! LOL
And, Gravid You wouldn't believe the stories/excuses they hear... it's really funny to listen to a bunch of cops telling about the best excuses they've heard.
I think that most (but not all) of the corruption stems from cops who develop a mentality of us (the cops) against them (society). I can see where it would be very easy to become jaded as a cop and see the world through different glasses then most of us do. And, if you're living in an area where that kind of attitude is prevelant then I can see where it would be easy for the citizens to get jaded with the cops. As usual, we don't really have any way of effectively dealing with the problem in place. It's more just an "O.K. get over it" kind of mentality... and that only escalates the problem... like a vicious circle on both sides.
Not paranoid anywhere else but here!
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gravid
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posted on March 23, 2001 05:27:06 PM new
I can't blame xardon for feeling a big chunk of the population are SOB's. I feel that way already and I don't have 12 friends shot at the rate of one every two years.
I do think this war on drugs that is not working is a big part of the risk police are facing.
xardon - How many of those 12 would you guess were shot over some activity that revolved around drugs? Either the crime was directly drug business or committed to pay for or under the influence of drugs? I think a lot of these are needless casualties because we are putting people at risk to enforce STUPID laws.
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HJW
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posted on March 23, 2001 05:31:15 PM new
Pocono
That probably wasn't his favorite drink
or it would have been confiscated. 
Helen
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Pocono
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posted on March 23, 2001 05:38:45 PM new
HJW: good thing we couldn't afford Bud back then...LOL
We'd a be scewed...
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HJW
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posted on March 23, 2001 05:40:45 PM new
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KatyD
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posted on March 23, 2001 05:53:27 PM new
fiset, those necklace or bracelet charms can be purchased at any store that sells law enforcement uniforms and accessories. Anyone can buy them. You don't need to be a police officer or a relative of a police officer. As for these "cards" I suspect they were simply business cards. Every officer carries them. As gravid said, it would be pretty risky to hand one to an officer that pulled you over. You never know if it will p**s them off and get a ticket INSTEAD of a warning. There ARE NO official "get out of jail" cards issued to department personnel or their relatives. And I'm in So. California too. As for the officer who had the accident and was "under the influence", undoubtedly those officers who covered for him were putting their careers and livelyhoods on the line. I'm not saying it didn't happen. Just that it is risky business and could very well cost them their jobs.
KatyD
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Pocono
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posted on March 23, 2001 06:05:07 PM new
Katy: The cards DO in fact exist, as my ex B-I-Ls hand them out every year...I get them as well, and toss em in a drawer. I have several "Silvers" and a few "Golds" (guess they mean more stroke). Gotten them every year since 1984
They are from the "PBA" Police Benevolent Assoc. and the "FOP" Fraternal Order of Police.
I have seen them in action, and when handed to a cop with your DL and Reg., you will walk 99% of the time.
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gravid
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posted on March 23, 2001 06:21:54 PM new
We have had scammers in our state several times making telephone solicitations of people to give to
"police" charities and "firemen's" charoties and both offering widow stickers to show they have given and not too subtle threats that they might be targeted if they don't and the people running this thing had no connection with any police or fire department at all. The whole thing was a 100% scam not even the usual; 1/4 of 1% going to a real charity.
I would hate to be one of the suckers who bought these stickers and thought they would
get out of a ticket.
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