posted on March 23, 2001 07:48:17 PM new
What a pack of morons.
edited to add...It's an embarassment to the human race.
[ edited by capriole on Mar 23, 2001 07:49 PM ]
posted on March 23, 2001 07:51:22 PM new
What makes is sick is they are hiding behind the word "God". And fully believe all that they are saying. Now THATS scarey. Try telling THEM they are wrong. Same thing mybiddness would get marching down the aisle at the place she is speaking of. Wont do any good.
posted on March 23, 2001 07:55:46 PM new
That whole sight was sick but this part really got me:
(People using Netscape Communicator with the proper plugins can place your mouse pointer over the image to hear Matthew scream "FOR GOD'S SAKE LISTEN TO PHELPS!!!" If this doesn't work, see Matthew's message from hell.)
And the signs "God Hates Fags" really break my heart. If they only knew.
I had a cousin in New Orleans who was chased down and had crosses burned into his back then was set on fire. All the while they were chanting about the demons he possessed because of his homosexuality. I've always wondered if it ever once occured to them that THEY were the ones who seemed to be possessed. My cousin died a few years later but the terror they inflicted never left him.
posted on March 23, 2001 07:59:38 PM new
What makes it even worse is the parents of that boy must know its there. Can you imagine? What if it was your son? And you saw that on the internet and read what those people are saying about someone loved by another human being? OMG. It boggles the mind, the hate that flourishes everywhere.
posted on March 23, 2001 08:01:27 PM new
Did you catch the hypocrisy?: "Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him." Leviticus 19:18.
posted on March 23, 2001 08:06:53 PM newHepburn I saw that... so disgusting.
BTW, I don't want anyone who attends church to think that I meant for this thread to bash all church goers. I just think that in this case it was used as a weapon instead of as a comfort to the grieving family. And, I'd say the site that Zazzy linked speaks for itself.
posted on March 23, 2001 08:41:09 PM new
I'm not a Christian, and while I have respect for people's spirituality, I have a fairly dim view of organized religion, for many of the reasons folks have cited here. If a person finds that organized religion enriches his life, I'm all for it. However, too many times I've seen it used as a weapon to hurt other people.
I didn't feel a need to click off and view any of the Matthew Shepard links folks have provided here, I've seen too much of that already.
It seems to me the grandmother is pretty full of herself to be taking credit for "saving the little girl's soul." As I understand it, for a person's soul to be saved, they need to accept and embrace Jesus Christ, and whether or not a person has actually done this is something that can only be known by that person and God. Just getting dragged to church a few times by your grandmother doesn't cut it.
Hell, if that's all it takes, could be that even my soul is saved.
posted on March 23, 2001 09:13:21 PM new
The members of that church picketed this young boy's funeral with signs saying he was already burning in hell.
posted on March 23, 2001 10:58:27 PM newMybid, I did not mean to ignore your post about your cousin, I did not see it before.
What a horrible thing to happen to him. Were these people charged with assault??
I am not going to church bash, because I do not believe that all church goers are like that, but it just goes to show over and over again, the damage that can be done in the name of the Lord.
These people that want to save our souls are the same ones that seem so full of hate and fear for what they themselves can not understand.
The same goes for the little girl's Grandmother, she is to be pitied really, because did that child really need to be saved in the first place. Was she a terrible person. I refuse to believe that any child that young needs to be saved.
For heavens sake they have not even had the chance to do any real wrong at that age, and as for saying that everyone needs to be saved so that they may go to heaven. What a load of bull dust!!
posted on March 24, 2001 08:47:30 AM newMybiddness: Here's my answer. An anonymous letter. That way YOU feel better, and no one knows where it came from, so no hard feelings towards you!
posted on March 24, 2001 04:36:11 PM newPocono - it made me think of you. Glad you liked it.
mybidness - let us know how things go, will ya? I'll be thinking of you.
I haven't clicked that link yet (dinner has 2 minutes left in the oven) and I'm not sure I want to. Makes my blood pressure spike, and the doctor says nonononono to that. But someone said "God lives in your heart, not in a church" - and that is the truth for me as well.
posted on March 24, 2001 06:14:08 PM newNettak I'm sorry I coudln't get back sooner. No one was ever charged or even pursued in the case. I think the general consensus of the police department was something along the lines of "that's what you get for being queer." That was about ten years ago... I don't know if we've changed that much.
What a load of bull dust!!! My sentiments exactly - I couldn't have said it better.
Muriel I know what you mean but I couldn't do anything anonymously... that's just not my style... For something like this I'd have to get in their face - way in their face.
Thanks Kris I'm definitely not doing anything until I get out of this foul mood I've been in... so tomorrow will be a quiet day at the local Baptist church. And, btw - don't click on the link. Really.
Becky Find a new church? I don't go to that church. I'd rather rot first.
posted on March 25, 2001 02:19:40 AM new
I wish I could say that the public was not as ignorant or patheticly paranoid ten years down the track, but I really fear that society is every bit as bad or maybe in some cases worse than it was 10 years ago. It makes me sad to think that we bring our children up in a world full of homophobic bigots. It disgusts me that know one would pay for such a awful crime against a fellow human.
I for one, hope that I have done my bit to eductate my children that everyone, no matter what there race, sexual preference, colour or creed, are equal, and should be treated the as such.
Everyone should be able to stand up and shout there beleifs, and not be afraid of biggoted judgement. Of course this is JMO.
posted on March 25, 2001 02:59:38 AM new
Back to the original topic: You don't know the family, you weren't there, all you do have is a second or third hand story from a very emotional and stress filled time when it is very easy to overreact or misinterpret something.
If what you were told was 100% accurate, I would see no problem with privately confronting them, but stories have a way of growing with time and six monthis is a long time. I personally would not do anything unless I had witnessed the situation myself.
IMHO: Let it go, you're reacting to gossip.
posted on March 25, 2001 02:25:17 PM new
I think the personal visit to the vicar first is best. I liked that idea, as if you really want to take a stand, it is best for you to be acting on first-hand knowledge, rather than hearsay.
If these people really have behaved in such a cruel way, THEN I would say go for it, in whatever way you want to! I would though, be mindful, of any action's impact on the child's parents.
I don't know if there is anyway to comfort the parents in their loss, and I do hope that they are not being counselled by that church.
If true, it is appalling that a grandmother could behave in such a way, in the name of God. If there is a hell, I am sure that there is a special place waiting for her, and her likes.
posted on March 25, 2001 08:39:49 PM new
I am a church organist, so needless to say, I go to a LOT of funerals. I also work part-time as a church secretary for two different churches (of two different faiths)so I am around a lot of church people and their activities. Add that to the fact that I'm a regular Sunday attender, and that adds up to a lot of church-going. In the funerals I've attended as an organist, I'm often amazed by the response I hear back from the family--everything ranging from "that was the best talk that pastor ever gave--he really gave us the comfort we needed" to "can you believe how callous and unfeeling that man was when he said XXXXX?" and the surprising thing is that oftentimes the minister has said the very same thing. What comes across as comfort to one can be the worst comment someone else ever heard. So--my point is that you need to take what you heard with a grain of salt--the story may have greatly been exaggerated in the last six months--the pastor may have not meant it the way those that heard it took it, or--maybe the pastor really is a jerk and hasn't figured out what the term "pastor" means. Slow your anger down--breathe deep for a few days--and then if you want to know the facts and voice how you feel about it, make an appointment, put on a nice dress and stop by the church office for an official visit with the pastor. By voicing your concerns in a professional adult manner, you'll get a lot farther ahead than carrying a sign down the aisle and telling them what a bunch of hypocrits they are during their prayer time. In the first instance you'll come across as a compassionate human being with what may be a very valid concern--in the second they'll think you're a nutcase and I guarantee they will not take your concerns seriously. And, after your official visit, if you feel there really is a problem with the pastor (just because he or she is a minister doesn't mean they're infallable) go over his head and send a WRITTEN MEMO to his bishop, board of elders, or whoever is next up on the food chain. Chances are, if there's a real problem you won't be the first one to report it, and your concern could help save a lot of grief to others he may come in contact with in the future.
posted on March 26, 2001 07:52:44 PM new
Just wanted to say after having a few days to calm down I've re-thought everything I think you're all exactly right about my needing to go to the "horses mouth." I'm going to send a nicely worded, short letter voicing my concerns in a non-attack way and then leave it alone.
My sincere thanks to you all for helping me sort this out.
posted on March 26, 2001 09:11:30 PM newMybid, I am so glad that you are going to do thing in a 'non-attack' way. At least this way you can take your time, and think clearly about what you want to say, without rushing in like a bull in a china shop.
I am an emotional type of person, and when someone hurts anyone close to me, I tend to attack. It is good to stand up for your beliefs but I tend to open my mouth too wide before I have taken complete stock of the situation and sometimes you say things in the wrong way. I also think that when you are upset and emotional over an issue, you sometimes forget to say some things and it is only later that you think, 'boy I should have said that, or I should have put that in a different way'.
At least by taking the time to write a letter, you can go over it until you know that you have written all you concerns and you are happy with what you are going to say to these people.
posted on March 27, 2001 05:50:54 AM new
mybid:
I'm sorry, sweetie, please accept my apologies for not being here for you. To explain, I saw the title of the thread and moved on, not even glancing that it was your post. So much for judging a book by it's cover.
I, too, am not a big fan of organized religion. I feel that religious beliefs should be a personal experience ~ not something open for condemnation or to be used to attack one another. IMO, too much "bad" is done in the name of God.
The incident you shared is heartbreaking. It seems like there has been a lot of prEying on those in need rather than prAying with those in need. I understand your need to protect and to speak out, as well as knowing that if I said "let it go", you'd probably blow me off ~ that just won't cut it. So...what to do? I think that the only way you will be able to "live with yourself" is if you do something to prevent what has been interpreted as an "attack" on this poor grieving family from reoccuring in the future. I can relate to that. Even if it is a misunderstanding, persons in a position such as a Pastor need to be aware of the words they choose and how open to iterpretation their actions are. There is a significant difference between believing in a Supreme Being and fear. I would hope, in any religion, that the God chosen to worship is a tolerant God.
As I read through the thread, it seems that you have transitioned to rational grasp of the situation ~ I think that as long as you remain level headed you will make yourself heard. I respect your decision in approaching this difficult matter. I believe in you and I thank you for speaking out before another family is possibly hurt by the actions of this church in the future. {{{Good Luck, mybid}}}
posted on March 27, 2001 08:00:07 PM newChepi Thanks for your comments and thoughts. I'm going to take everyones advice and take this slowly just in case there has been a genuine misunderstanding. I hope that turns out to be the case. I cringe to think that a pastor would purposely lay this kind of pain on a grieving family...
Thanks again to everyone for helping me see this from all sides.
inside I'm sure you realize that my thanks was not directed toward you or your disparaging comment... but for the record, it was not.
