posted on April 10, 2001 01:03:02 AM new
Good point bunni, let me add the Africa symbols that the kids used to wear around there necks about 10 years ago, that despite what some would like to believe DID cause problems - at least in my school which was about 65% - %70 black. I saw enough fights directed at whites for no other reason than that they were white. I've seen the other side of racism, and it's scary, especially so because it seems not to be frowned upon, but accepted due to "the hundreds of years of pain and anguish handed down by the white devil". Sorry, but very few white folks are actually descended from slave owners.
As for you Badu, you mention alot of problems in the past to account for the double standard today (ie NAACP, black colleges, BET etc). Last time I checked, it's actually easier for blacks to get into college than whites, and if you only see black folks on BET, and not NBC CBS ABC FOX UPN & The WB than we are watching two different TV's in 2 different worlds. What void are you referring to?
And finally Borrilar, I know you don't really believe that the confederate flag has only been an issue for the last 8 years, or have you forgotten how long ago Clinton was Governor of Arkansas with it's Confederate State Flag?
Let's not forget all of the black award shows on TV, or are whites only allowed to win Oscar's, and Academy Awards? No, well tell me how many whites were given awards on the Black Music awards etc.
One of the scariest things I ever heard was a little boy that was asked what a racist was. He said "A white person". Why is it that so few people realize that racism comes from all angles, and you might be surprised just who doesn't like you for something you never did.
Don't be afraid of the mirror...it's only you.
[ edited by jlpiece on Apr 10, 2001 01:09 AM ]
posted on April 10, 2001 06:31:47 AM new
Not to worry, jlpiece, I don't think anyone would be surprised to find that you don't like them for something they never did, especially after that racist rant.
posted on April 10, 2001 07:55:49 AM new
Oh, I just don't see how he can KNOW the reasons or lack of, for "I saw enough fights
directed at whites for no other reason than that they were white"; or why he thinks anyone but him is forced to accept rather than frown on what he calls "the other side of racism" (ironically acknowledging that there is an original side, but that's an aside); or where he is able to check for "Last time I checked, it's actually easier for blacks to get into college than whites",
(wow! don't anyone say Affirmative Action around that guy)
and how he supports that premise except through personal bias;or especially odd is the condescending "Let's not forget all of the black award shows on TV, or are whites only allowed to win Oscar's, and Academy Awards? No, well tell me how many whites were given awards on the Black Music awards etc", somehow thinking that there is a racist element in the fact of no whites being given awards for black awards at an event called "The BLACK Music Awards"; that's all.
Don't you think it's wonderful how Biloxi allowed a Black Spring Break, Bunni? Even though the white people there had to put up with traffic and other inconveniences, it was nice of them, don't you think, to allow blacks there to celebrate as whites have every year during spring break. After all, they really want to make the statement that the systemmatic exclusion of black students from spring break events for all these years wasn't racist, it's only that blacks celebrate spring break differently, and besides, it's new. THEY weren't in colleges before, so why would they know about spring break anyway?
note; I'm out the door, so probably won't answer any bigotry.
posted on April 10, 2001 09:06:03 AM new
KRS - You've got alot of nerve calling someone a racist just because they disagree with your point of view. I hope my daughter doesn't feel I'm racist or her mother for that matter since she is mixed. Half of my family is black and we openly discuss these issues occassionally.
Aside from that, apparently you didn't read the other comments in the thread leading up to my remarks. Some were just wondering why anything labeled as "White only" is historically racist, while everything "black only" is ok. It's a double standard, plain and simple, and double standards aren't right in anything. I absolutely agree that the original side of racism(at least in this country) was DEFINATELY white against black. No sane person could argue that. But that doesn't make it right to reverse the efforts of all of the blacks (and whites) who fight and died FOR EQUALITY - not special treatment!
There will never be an end to such racist attitudes until all people are treated as equal, and no affirmitive action will NOT help that cause, nor do I think will The Black(only) music awards, Black(only)Entertainment Television, Black(only) colleges, or Black(only) spring break!
How can black folks consistently ask for there own special events, treatment etc, yet want to be treated no different than whites?
You can't demand special treatment in one breath, and ask why you are being treated different in the next.
It isn't logical....
Edited for spelling cause I'm not that bright...
[ edited by jlpiece on Apr 10, 2001 09:09 AM ]
posted on April 10, 2001 10:46:30 AM new
It's perfectly clear that lack of education is the root cause of
racism today. Ignorant parents raise ignorant children. Unless the
schools can overcome that problem, nothing will change.
Schools need to be concerned about how a child thinks rather
than what he wears on his back. Banning the
shirts will not solve the problem!!!
Let there be disruption, if this is what it takes to bring this problem to the attention of the school administrators!!!
Churches aren't addressing the problem either, and in fact, are contributing to the problem. I can remember seeing a black child
sitting on the steps of an all white church. This poor child was
not allowed "inside."
"KRS - You've got alot of nerve calling someone a racist just because they disagree with your point of view"
Not having expressed a point of view previously in the thread, I don't know what you mean by that. I'm certainly happy to hear that you are 1/8 Cherokee because now I can see that you share in the pain of that nation.
"Aside from that, apparently you didn't read the other comments in the thread leading up to my remarks. Some were just wondering why anything labeled as "White only" is historically racist, while everything "black only" is ok.
You're right--I missed any such reference in this thread. Can you point out where you have seen anyone say those things?
[i]"How can black folks consistently ask for there own special events, treatment etc, yet want to be treated no different than whites?
Huh? Black people ask? I had thought that music awards, including Grammys, and movie awards, Oscars, were given by recognition of the artist's peers. With that as a given, can it be that there are achievements which are unique to black people and most appreciated by their people. I don't hear you objecting to St. Patrick's day with statements like "how can Irish people ask for that special event and expect to be treated as equals."
Your entire concentration is upon black people and the "treatment" of them. Why is that? Do you find them to be so different as to warrant that special concern? Yes, you do. You also evidently feel that it's PC important to attempt to establish here an identification on your part by your careful disclosures of the interracial character of your marriage. Gee whiz. They needed someone to care for them and you are willing for whatever reasons you have, and you marry (or not) just as other people of any racial variety do. By pointing out that they are 'mixed' you are displaying your attitudes and bigotry else why even mention those facts?
"You can't demand special treatment in one breath, and ask why you are being treated different in the next".
No, it's some people HAVE to demand equal treatment because otherwise there never would be any hope of it, and no black person ever asks why he or she is being treated differently.
Edited for spelling cause I'm not that bright... [ edited by jlpiece on Apr 10, 2001 09:09 AM ]
posted on April 10, 2001 01:42:22 PM new
This thread is getting too personal. Please stick to the topic and do not make personal remarks.
Krs, the last edit comment in your post is uncalled for. Please do not continue to post in this vein as it will put your posting privileges in jeopardy.
Smitty
posted on April 10, 2001 02:23:34 PM newkrs: guess your button has been pushed on this one!
Don't you think it's wonderful how Biloxi allowed a Black Spring Break, Bunni? ...it was nice of them, don't you think, to allow blacks there to celebrate as whites have every year during spring break.
You seem to bee saying that black people have been forbidden to celebrate Spring Break in Biloxi?!? What, were they all confined to home or campus for the duration? Why haven't we heard about this before?
For myself, I don't care if black Americans have their own award shows, spring breaks, or whatever. If they want them, why not? However I do agree that if it is OK to have "black only" or "latino only" or "whatever only" events, then it should also be OK to have "white only" events. Why is the one OK, but not the other?
This whole thread has strayed far from the original topic, which is an interesting one. Should there be restrictions on what kids wear to school...
posted on April 10, 2001 03:16:34 PM newHJW: Actually, krs did *not* answer the question that I asked. In his answer to jland he accuses him/her of trying to "take care" of black people & of claiming special understanding due to marital relations (while implying she had some underlying motive in so marrying). He says a lot of other things as well...but he does not say why it is OK to have "black only" events but not "white only" ones.
posted on April 10, 2001 03:24:59 PM new
Racism is noxious...no matter which race is practicing it at the moment. And no race has a monopoly on that practice.
The last time I saw it clearly on this board was when Justice Clarence Thomas was being reviled for his vote...by both black and white...because of his color.
Seems he should have voted his color...not his convictions.
Bah. BTW, I don't give a happy **** which way he voted. That's immaterial.
posted on April 10, 2001 03:38:30 PM new
The inequalities of the different races can be a topic of discusion forever with out resolve. Every race of people on earth at some point in time have had their crosses to bear, delivered by the hand of another race or culture. A inhumane aspect of humanity, nevertheless a truth. As Americans we should rally to cultivate causes that unite all the people as opposed to dividing us by race, culture, creed or heritage. Our foremost racial concern as nation is that we all should take pride in being Americans, and that all races of this country are simply treated as Americans, the rest is secondary.
posted on April 10, 2001 03:58:47 PM new
bunnicula,
The key word is Biloxi *allowed* an all black spring break.
White people in Mississippi don't need permission for an all white spring break.
White people are in control of Biloxi and all of Mississippi.
In fact, it's amazing that enough black students could be found
in the state of Mississippi to form a group large enough to cause
a traffic jam that uaru mentioned.
It's also amazing that these students had the courage to attend
such an event in this little resort town in Mississippi.
posted on April 10, 2001 04:16:12 PM new
It was krs that said blacks were allowed a black spring break...not bunnicula. Perhaps they decided for themselves. Perhaps they have minds of their own. I have every confidence that they do.
posted on April 10, 2001 04:18:39 PM newHJW: from what I have been reading, Biloxi "allowed" Black Spring Break in the same as any Spring Break is "allowed": the promoters (who BTW were from Chicago & Washington DC) applied for permits to use facilities and the application was granted. Promoters involved with regular Spring Breaks must do the same thing--how shocking. And to my knowledge there is no such thing as an "all white" spring break. All college students, regardless of color, celebrate it, usually by picking out some "Mecca" to party at, have sex, and drink copious amounts. Are yous suggesting that black students have been confined to campus during this period in the past?
In fact, it's amazing that enough black students could be found in the state of Mississippi to form a group large enough to cause a traffic jam that uaru mentioned.
Not so amazing as all that when you consider that just over 36% of Mississppi's population is black...
I am not familiar with an all white or an all black spring break.
I used the terms because I read them in your question and in the question by
jlpiece. I suspect that the term, all black spring break was promoted by the all white bigots in Mississippi to describe the event that was scheduled by
the college students from Washington DC.
posted on April 10, 2001 05:06:53 PM newJoice: I've only seen one personal comment. But be that as it may...
I am for dress codes in schools. As I stated before, many schools in my area prohibit certain colors or types of clothes that have proven disruptive & actually dangerous for kids to wear.
Outside of school...I wonder just how many parents are aware of what some current clothing styles signify. Take those pants that (barely) hang on to boys' butts. And the shoes with no laces. These are jailhouse "styles" & meant to emulate prisoners whose belts & shoelaces are taken from them to prevent suicides while in holding cells. Belt buckles with initials on them are in fashion in some places--and the local police will tell you that they are gang insignia (which non-gang kids also adopt to be 'cool" & thereby putting their own lives in danger).
"However I do agree that if it is OK to have "black only" or "latino only" or "whatever only" events, then it should also be OK to have "white only" events. Why is the one OK, but not the other?"
That is the point. There have BEEN "white only" events in this country for centuries. There have also been white only restrooms, restaurants, sporting leagues, neighborhoods, businesses, you name it, streets, busses, schools, hospitals, whatever you can think of, and you know that.
Aside, I'd be willing to bet that no white would be administratively excluded from this spring break thing if he or she wanted to be involved. Some of the black students might resent it.
This "allowance" was coupled with a massive police presence who were only there to see that the law was obeyed and traffic concerns were addressed, of course, but in Mississippi as in many places there is wide descretion in the application of laws. When the white students take their spring break is there the same level of oppression by police? Do businesses closed and bar their doors? Some tired old storekeeper, maybe selling woman's shoes probably does, having seen it all before, but is there a systematic and complete shutdown as described in the article provided? Or is the spring break treated indulgently, as it traditionally has been, with a lot of looking the other way at violations and the general feeling of support for those kids just letting their hair down in the long awaited springtime.
posted on April 10, 2001 05:24:03 PM new
I hope Bunni was not referring to my having copied the words of jlpiece, with his own edit notation, and specifically without comment from me as the personal comment in the thread?
posted on April 10, 2001 05:24:45 PM newJoice: well, I tried...
KRS: For the past several years there is a massive police presence at *all* spring break areas. Why? Because it is needed. White, black, polka dot--the ethnicity of the participants isn't the issue. The police are there because of the vandalism, drunk driving, rapes, thefts, etc. that go hand in hand with Spring Break. And yes, white students do face this very same "oppression."
posted on April 10, 2001 05:38:49 PM newFriday night, officers were stationed at nearly every intersection on U.S. 90, the main thoroughfare along the beach, and parts of the highway in Gulfport and Biloxi were reduced from four to two lanes for the weekend, leaving two lanes for emergency vehicles only. About 400 police officers and deputies are on patrol.
I'll bet that's more than were at the riots at SF state, and I wonder that they didn't call up the national guard.
posted on April 10, 2001 06:57:05 PM newkrsI'll bet that's more than were at the riots at SF state, and I wonder that they didn't call up the national guard.
Krs,
I don't believe you can appreciate the magnitude of the problems "Black Springbreak 2000" caused. The city of Biloxi went into gridlock. Police and emergency vehicles weren't able to respond to any calls. The residents were blocked from getting home or away from their home. Business were forced to shut down, it had the same impact on the city as an unplanned hurricane evacuation.
Yes,the police chief in Biloxi did have a lot of officers controlling traffic this year. The reason was what happened last year, it totally shut the city down. BTW the Biloxi police chief is black, less you think his actions were racially modivated.
posted on April 10, 2001 07:35:41 PM newFor myself, I don't care if black Americans have their own award shows, spring breaks, or whatever. If they want them, why not? However I do agree that if it is OK to have "black only" or "latino only" or "whatever only" events, then it should also be OK to have "white only" events. Why is the one OK, but not the other?
Bingo. I dont care about the past either. I care about the NOW. And the NOW is making things the same for ALL races.
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