posted on April 12, 2001 12:12:52 PM new
Good Morning, All! Gosh, everyone's been busy! Lessee ...
"Borillar if you due a little research you will discover that the African indentured servents were here first . . ."
I wasn't aware of Africans becoming indentured servants - something that was missed when I went to school in the 60's and 70's. I remember that the English poor entered into indentured service in return for passage to the New World; that the average length of service was seven years, although sometimes five; and that a set of laws kept indentured servants from becoming slaves and treated as such.
"I ask you why a flag that was not regonized officially by the Confederate government could instigate such discourse, public opinion and racial division."
My reply is that whatever it's official status was or is to the Confederacy, it is currently being used as a symbol for groups of Southerners who say that it has historical value for them. I keep asking and want to know exactly what historical value it is that they are referring to? No one has yet answered this simple question.
KRS:"African people as a race are partial responsible for slavery"
Gee, have to remember that.
This is factually true. Slavery has been around throughout written history and probably descends back into the begining of Humankind. Africa has known slavery for all of that time, including today. The Old World was rife with slavery, not just White People, but blacks, Asians, and American Indians. The institution of slavery didn't just appear overnight in Virginia and could never have become the trade that it was without the full cooperation of the natives of Africa and their system of slavery over there.
""what to do with these people when they become free. Who is to take care of them? That was a contributing factor in the decision to rebel".
I think that this is an outrageously demeaning thing to say.
Once again, factually true. There was a real concern in the US government when slavery was abolished of what would happen after the Civil War with the many thousands of ex-slaves who had not a penny to their name and posibly, no real skills at earning a living wage and if not back on the plantations, where would they go to survive? It is part of the history and is not meant to be derogatory.
Thank you, saabsister for that post! It really does point out what I experienced in the South as well.
HJW sez: "If the confedrate flag ever had any cultural significance, it is now completely LOST."
"That is to send a message that the White Supremist are still in power with their hate and their memories of hate and their hope for more hate in the future."
EXACTLY!
KRS again: "The Confederate flag is a symbol of the southern fight for independence."
Well, you've managed to relate to us exactly what supporters of the Confederate flag in this thread's topic have been reluctant to say here: that the flag stands for something of worth! And I've heard this same claim before from supporters, that's it's about their old ways of life, culture, heiritage, and values. That it is somhow a reminder of "more genteele" days long gone by that should not be forgotten.
What a load of bull that is! Their "glorious" way of life could not have been made possible without the horrors of slavery perpetrated upon other humans of african descent. I say, that if they can't seperate "the Good Ole' Days" from slavery, and they can't, then they OUGHT to forget about it!
So, this flag may have been a sybmol for the struggle of Southerners to keep a people enslaved for their own economic and cultural benefit by declaring independance from the rest of America, but now it is only a symbol for racists to push their beliefs into the media and to train the next generation of bigots and racists.
posted on April 12, 2001 02:40:54 PM new
Borillar,
Nonsense. Some of the African tribes facilitated the capture of slaves in Africa but to say that they share responsibility for slavery in America is absurd. I'm sure that they had no idea where those people would end up, and the idea that because slavery had exissted before it was used here absolves them. Why not try to blame the very first slave-monger? Probably find who that was in the bible somewhere. Americans made use of an existing resource, and it is that practice in this country which is condemned. Anything else is passing the buck.
The flag is only a designer cloth. What is read into it may be another thing, but that is a subjective matter. You can't critisize it's use, only it's misuse.
posted on April 12, 2001 03:45:17 PM new
It seems to me that any use of the confederate flag...other than as
a rag...would be misuse. How could this symbol of hate be used in a non critical manner?
posted on April 12, 2001 04:02:35 PM new
Anyone here realize that according to the latest poll, 30% of blacks in that state do not find it the confederate flag offensive, and have that if you were to get rid of the confederate flag due to it's history with racism, then the American flag must go to...
Also, what percent of people in a state must find something offensive before the majority must appease them?
I'm sure we would overload our already ridiculous amount of laws if we legislate to the minority will of the people.
posted on April 12, 2001 04:16:58 PM new
First, I can't imagine a black individual telling a Mississippi pollster that
he finds the confederate flag offensive.
posted on April 12, 2001 04:26:12 PM new
When the flag in South Carolina was removed,
the director of NAACP indicated that the
flag was offensive to many black people.
"There is a very strong sentiment among African-Americans that this flag is an offensive symbol, and they understand its connection with bigotry and oppression in America," said Dwight James, executive director of the state chapter of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People"
posted on April 12, 2001 04:33:00 PM new
1. I've never been black.
2. I am not a native of the South, nor have I ever lived in the South.
Therefore, I don't feel qualified to comment on the significance of the flag in question to those who grew up in the South.
However, as someone who raised 2 children responsibly and taught them tolerance, mostly by example, I do feel qualifed to comment on part of the article originally posted:
It was very irresponsible of Zane Dunn's mother to buy and then encourage her son to wear a banned, offensive t-shirt. His battle cry "My Confederate ancestors, they died for this flag" (his English, not mine) sounds like he is apeing something he heard his parent(s) say.
And we wonder how all of this hate is perpetuated.
She apparently never once thought that by encouraging her son to wear this offensive shirt, that harm could come to him.
Pretty naive in light of all the school shootings. One never knows what will send another over the edge.
posted on April 12, 2001 04:57:32 PM new
Regarding several posts earlier about African's being partially responsible for slavery, a few peope should glance at this article.
posted on April 12, 2001 05:36:53 PM new
Today's headlines locked...Oh well... perhaps it is best to hide our heads and pretend that such horrors do not exist today.
posted on April 12, 2001 05:39:33 PM new
HJW, maybe the buzzing refers to the infamous remark in the last few weeks about ... fresh kill... flies buzzing over the carcass....and the final coup de grace of... maggots.
Heard that analogy yet? if not, you can email me and I will explain my reference.
BTW I do not agree with the analogy at all. My DNA is still quite human thanks.
