posted on April 24, 2001 06:58:29 PM newC'est What? Miss France'sGender Questioned
Sacre bleu! Donald Trump and organizers of his Miss Universe contest spent last night investigating whether Miss France began life as a man.
Elodie Gossuin, the pretty 19-year-old Gallic contestant who arrived yesterday in Puerto Rico for the pageant, was due to be interrogated about whether she is a transsexual or a transvestite, Miss Universe officials tell us.
"Our regulations say that all delegates must be natural-born females," says spokeswoman Mary Hilliard McMillan. "If she does turn out to be a man, we'll put her on the first plane back to France."
Alerted by us to the gender probe, Trump said through a spokeswoman: "It'll be interesting."
As of press time, pageant officials still weren't sure whether to believe rumors, which surfaced on the Internet, that the aspiring nurse was also an aspiring female.
"She is going through registration and being fitted for a gown and swimsuit," said McMillan. "There will be some determination. Wardrobe ladies have instructions to report immediately."
If Gossuin is booted from the May 11 contest, the runner-up in the Miss France contest might be eligible to take her place. But McMillan added, "We're getting down to the wire. France may have to withdraw."
McMillan said organizers hadn't been able to put the question of her sex to Gossuin or her handlers because "they've been traveling."
But word that the Miss Universe contest might turn into a sequel to "Victor/Victoria" already has the media in Puerto Rico abuzz.
"Men on TV are dressing up as women," says one insider. "Even cab drivers and bellhops are saying, 'When does Mr. France arrive?'"
posted on April 24, 2001 08:10:59 PM new
Even if she was born male (and my estimation is that she was not), it's clear that she's female now and she should be allowed to compete if she's earned it.
posted on April 26, 2001 09:12:58 PM new
Hi Zilvy!!!
Right on Spaz Glad to hear you feel that way. Don't even get me started on this gender thing, we'll be here for days. Sheeesh. WHO CARES what "gender" was assigned to her birth certificate when she was born. If she says she is female, she is female and who is anyone to deny her her gender. And - why do some people LOSE their minds over genital surgery OH GASP GOD FORBID!!!! But ask for a nose job and no one will ask you for a letter from a psychiatrist. Jeeeeeeeeez.
Rocker
posted on April 26, 2001 10:00:56 PM newWHO CARES what "gender" was assigned to her birth certificate when she was born.
What nonsense. Gender isn't "assigned" at birth, as if it were just like the "name" chosen to be registered on the birth certificate. Gender is determined by chromosomes, and of course, the "equipment" one is born with reflects this, hermaphrodites not withstanding. What a person chooses to do with their sexual identity down the road is their own business. This political correctness is really getting downright silly. Personally I don't care if she was born a monkey, and I think the whole idea of beauty pageants are stupid.
posted on April 26, 2001 10:06:26 PM new
I really don't care what/who she is either way. She's a great looking woman and I among many (who are honest) envy her good looks - I'd be happy to look like her.
posted on April 26, 2001 10:14:47 PM new
Yes, but it isn't really fair in a contest of the type because her maleness will allow her to be so very much superior to any real woman in any other measurable criteria that they may use to judge contestants.
posted on April 27, 2001 08:08:42 AM new
Breaking News!
The story picked up steam when Puerto Rican papers and the New York Daily News began questioning Gossuin's gender. The local tabloids pointed out with glee that Gossuin had unusually large hands and her forehead sported a scar--supposedly telltale signs that the contestant had undergone a sex-change operation.
With the stories threatening to undermine the pageant, which is celebrating its 50th anniversary this year, Miss Universe organizers called in a doctor to give Gossuin a presumably thorough once-over. Finally, it was determined that she was, indeed, a she. Gossuin also provided a birth certificate that confirmed her gender.
"So far, all signs point to the fact that she's a female," said Mary Hilliard McMillan, the pageant spokeswoman. "She has a birth certificate that says she is a woman and she is one of the most stunning women I've ever seen. She's very feminine."
"Of course there's no doubt," Genevieve de Fontenay, the organizer of the Miss France contest since the 1950s, told reporters. "I've been running this competition for 45 years, do you think that men have never tried to enter before?
"I am scandalized, shocked, outraged and profoundly upset. It's really a considerable prejudice that she's going to suffer because of this."
"They really had to look far and wide to come up with a story so grotesque," the 5-foot-11 Gossuin told reporters Wednesday, speaking through an interpreter and shaking her head "no" when asked if she was ever a man.
Believe it or not, pageant officials have had to deal with cross-dressing competitors before. When a man won a beauty contest in Asia a few years ago, Miss Universe added a rule stating that contestants must be natural-born women.
posted on April 27, 2001 04:10:12 PM new
Wow sorry to see such a bunch of sexist crap about male superiority. Too ridicuous for me to even address here. And Katyd, talk about NONSENSE... do you have any idea what you are talking about? Have you had YOUR chromosomes checked lately? There are various combinations of chromosomes and I sincerely doubt you know exactly what yours are. As far as what "equipment" you are born with, do you mean to say if you were in a car accident (god forbid) and your breasts were chopped off, it would make you less of a "woman"? Do you really think gender is defined by what body parts we have?? You're kidding, right? I am a counselor for the Lesbian Gay Bi and TRANSGENDER community and I am constantly dealing with Trans people who have to deal with such discrimination. You don't even know there are Trans people right here in this message board that you communicate with all the time. You see Trans people on the street and at the grocery store and you talk to them and you don't even know it. Why should you care whether Miss France was born with a penis or not? The ignorance and bigotry here is really a sad state of affairs. My ex-girlfriend and good friend was born male-bodied (she had her SRS about a year and a half ago - which means Sex Reassignment Surgery) and has been on female hormones for about ten years. She began to live full time as a woman about 5 years ago, and you would not even KNOW she was born male-bodied if you saw her or got to know her, unless she told you. What do YOU know about being born in a body that feels wrong for you? Try LEARNING more and ASKING more questions on the subject before you make such fierce JUDGEMENTS.
Rocker
[ edited by nycrocker on Apr 27, 2001 04:17 PM ]
posted on April 27, 2001 04:28:24 PM new
[i] "So far, all signs point to the fact that she's a female," said Mary Hilliard McMillan, the pageant spokeswoman. "She has a birth certificate that says she is a woman and she is one of the most stunning women I've ever seen. She's very feminine." [i]
THAT is hilarious. OH the birth certificate and femininity explain it all, huh? Funny, it does say FEMALE on my birth cerificate, and yet I'm about as feminine as the Fonz. Anyway, guess what - in certain states, once you have SRS you DO get a new birth certificate with the new chosen name and the correct GENDER finally printed on it. A very happy moment for trans people who have waited their whole lives to be seen and validated for who they really are. And yes there are many transsexual women who are fiercely feminine and gorgeous and STUNNING (if I can remember how to post a picture you can all see my stunning ex...... god knows I have EXCELLENT taste in women.) And there are some trans women who are more masculine or less attractive or more tomboyish or more this and less that... wow, just like OTHER people, boys and girls!
And don't confuse transvestites with transsexuals with cross dressers. They are all completely different.
Pay attention. There will be a quiz later.
Rocker
PS: Kazanne you rock
James I can kick your butt in math any day. And in a lotta other areas too I bet.
[ edited by nycrocker on Apr 27, 2001 04:36 PM ]
posted on April 27, 2001 04:41:52 PM new
I agree with you Rocker. Yep, my birth certificate says FEMALE, all my life,
I've grown up with "You should have been
a boy" from my parents, and now I'm told
that I've got "balls" just because I'm
not feminine, don't wear dresses, have very
short hair, strong as an ox and speak my
mind, and have a rather deep voice.
posted on April 27, 2001 04:46:31 PM new
nycrocker,
Your verbal attack on KatyD is absolutely uncalled for. Your posting privileges will be in jeopardy should you continue to post attacks against people that have a different point of view from your own.
Joice
[email protected]
**got carried away with spacing. Now corrected, I hope.
[ edited by joice on Apr 27, 2001 04:47 PM ]
posted on April 27, 2001 04:55:07 PM new
Well Rocker did you save it all up for your welcome back speech. LOL
I would advise anyone who wants to argue this subject to wait untill you know Rocker is out of the way because she will win this one hands down. A more knowledgable person on this subject I have yet to meet and I have met a few who think they know it all.
I do believe that you are born the way you are, I have a nephew who knew from the age of about 6 that he wanted to be a woman. He had councilling and it did not matter what anyone had to say on the matter he knew in his heart that he was a she, and she went on to be a truely stunning woman, and someone to be proud of.
KRS her maleness will allow her to be so very much superior umm I don't think so.
posted on April 27, 2001 05:24:06 PM new
First of all {{{{BIG HUGS}}} to Netta and Kazanne!!!!!!
Second, Joice, if you will re-read KatyD's comments, you will see that she called my opinions NONSENSE and SILLY. I DO see that as a personal attack, and therefore, I don't see how my response to her was "uncalled for". Please don't pick and choose who can and cannot "attack". Consistency would be nice. And please don't "threaten" me regarding my so-called posting "priveleges" -I am one of your paying customers, unlike so many that hit the road when AW started charging people. So please don't treat me like a two year old who needs punishment. It is not a "privelege" to be singled out here as the "attacker". So should my "priveleges" be taken away, it will be no great loss to me, it will certainly hurt AW a lot more than it will hurt me.
Netta honey, get ready to communicate with me via email - I am about to lose my AW priveleges. LOL!! (Some people just can't handle the truth.)
posted on April 27, 2001 05:31:50 PM new
nycrocker,
There is a difference between arguing "opinion" and attacking a poster on a personal level.
Since this is not the place to discuss moderation, if you have an issue related to being 'nudged' feel free to bring to email as that is the system in place at this time.
posted on April 27, 2001 05:39:21 PM new
No Joice, I have no issue at this time about being "nudged". I believe it was your issue with me, no?? If I should get "banned", then perhaps I will have an issue to address. I will cross that bridge when I come to it.
