I don't know it will be on the next page before I post, that's why I was so surprised to see it had gone to the next page while I was thinking and posting.
posted on May 2, 2001 07:42:21 AM
I have been asking questions, and it is known by now (or should be) that I am not against gays, "trannies" or whatever else you want to name someone for being different from myself. However, I also want to say that jlpiece has a RIGHT to his/her opinion too. Not everyone agrees with Rockers view and to get all pushed out of shape because someone doesnt is ticking ME off reading it. So if "we" ask nice and pat you on the back at the same time, its ok? Myself, I dont CARE whats someone sexual preference is. Its the PERSON that matters, not what they have between their legs. And to be brutally honest, I really dont WANT it shoved in my face what you do in the damn bedroom. So with that, I think Im done asking questions, because if I dont tippy toe in the asking, I will be like jlpiece who has a RIGHT to have a contrary view but is warned or ignored if his/her stance isnt "smoochy" enough.
posted on May 2, 2001 09:54:21 AM
Okay I KNEW I was gonna get it for that one. I just did it to make my friends laugh, which they did.
HEP I'm sick of having it shoved in my face what YOU do in the bedroom too. But that's the way our culture is, as I have mentioned to you already (tv, advertisements, schools, etc), this culture surrounds us with a heterosexual message ONLY. The message is it's okay to shove it down everyone's throat AS LONG AS it is heterosexual.
By the way, I don't remember anyone here even mentioning what trans people or gays or lesbians DO in the bedroom. Um I think they all do different things but I'm not sure, I haven't been in all of their bedrooms. I thought we were discussing transsexuality, not bedroom behavior.
Of course JL has a right to his opinion. Again, it is about attitude. Some people come in here like gangbusters with NO sense of compassion, and with a very obvious judgemental attitude and very little desire to ask or learn anything. It is very easy to see the difference between people having a debate, and people who just come in here with their pre-concieved notions, all ready to spew their hatred. It shows, in a BIG way.
hjw I am not priveleged here (or ANYWHERE for that matter, in the same way that YOU are) - you can clearly see I get moderated just like anyone else who uses bad words
posted on May 2, 2001 10:11:40 AM
I haven't seen one person come into this thread and "spew hatred" and if you put "different opinion" in the same category as "pre-conceived notions" than I guess you would have to include yourself as owning such notions, rocker. People are bound to have different opinions about most everything, and while you or I might not agree with everything said in these threads, these posters have a right to voice such opinions without some vulgar remark made for the amusement of "friends".
Again, it is about attitude.
A truer statement was never made.
Where was your sense of righteous indignation the other night when jlpiece came in here and called the people discussing this topic "a confused bunch of wackos"? You were pretty silent then. Same for you, krs. But now that the ball's on the other side of the court, you both rush in crying foul.
Helen, your earliest posts here defended the right of someone to direct vulgar, lesbian-themed "jokes" at HartCottageQuilts. I find these latest posts of yours hypocritical in the extreme.
The purpose of jlpiece's posts is obvious -- disruption. Now that he's managed to get a spark going, some of you are here to blow on the flames with the ultimate goal of getting the thread closed. You forget, I know how the game works. I've been here long enough to witness it again and again and again. The only thing I find surprising is that you've let the thread go this far.
posted on May 2, 2001 10:53:27 AM
Okay so we don't all have the same sense of humor. Yeah... okay....so?
I also wanted to add: re: "shoving it in your face" - I have NO problem with your heterosexuality or your being not Trans (some of my best friends are heterosexuals and not Trans) - my problem is with the society who tries to force every one into the same box; to be hetero when we are not or to be a gender we are not. I call THAT shoving it in our faces. Why do YOU get so angry and call it shoving it in YOUR face when we are only being ourselves like you are being yourself??
After all this bickering, I also want to say I have been lucky enough to meet some really really wonderful people here on AW, and even though their personal life styles may be different, and we DON'T always agree on things, we have always communicated with love and respect for each other. They were all totally there for me in my own relationship problems. They are not lesbians or Transwomen (not that I know of anyway), they just listened and helped me and did not judge my relationship as being any different than anyone else's relationship. That was SOOOO important to me. They helped me through a REALLY rough time in my life. THANK YOU for that.... you know who you are.
(nettamybiddnesszoominenchantedtigerlady)
Rocker
[ edited by nycrocker on May 2, 2001 10:57 AM ]
posted on May 2, 2001 11:00:08 AM
Well, I have to disagree with you, Spaz. JL posed a different viewpoint, one that you might not agree with. Most every opinion that JL has shared about most things I haven't agreed with, but I hardly think that he is trying to "disrupt" any thread in which he voices disagreement with me. He has the right to "contribute" to threads whether you, I or anyone else here agree with that contribution as long as it isn't a vulgar or insulting contribution. SaraAW was incorrect in her warning to him last night because he WAS addressing the subject and not the poster personally. As for "confused whackos", he probably SHOULD have said "confused wacky opinions" but you and I have both seen much more insulting comments than THAT get by the moderators (depending of course upon WHO is on duty).
posted on May 2, 2001 11:04:13 AM
Just don't play into their hands, jannie. They've read you as an easy mark, someone who posts without regard for the consequences. The idea is to make you step over the line so that you get suspended.
posted on May 2, 2001 11:11:58 AM
Hi Spaz - Easy mark, no. Posting without regard for consequences, yes. (I'm a rock musician for gods sake, what do you expect.) Okay I see your point. I will stay within guide lines so as not to play into the suspension. And not leave ya here on your own.
NOT that ya can't handle it!!!!
Spaz this thread is gonna get locked any minute, I'm sure. And when it does, you better email me dammit or I will be REALLY mad at you. GASP!!! <-- a fight between Spaz and Rocker? Now THAT would be SCARY!!
Rocker
[ edited by nycrocker on May 2, 2001 11:13 AM ]
posted on May 2, 2001 11:14:28 AM
Oh brother, Spaz. That's the most ridiculous thing you've ever posted. Nobody here is out to make anyone here do anything. Or are you trying to say that some people are not responsible for their own posts? You of all people should know better. You and I both recently got the boot for posting without regard for the consequences. Are you trying to say that we were "forced" into it? I take responsibility for my words. It's part of being an adult.
posted on May 2, 2001 11:19:48 AM
Give that particular line a break, Spaz. Jlpiece is the poster who was jumped on and denigrated by both yourself and nycrocker, apparently because of your assumptions about his attitude. His question was and is a valid one, and the responses of both of you were innaproporiate to that question.
To go on now in defense of an obscene response is exactly what you are critisizing Helen for doing.
No one is attempting to close or disrupt your thread at all, but some are objecting to elements within it which are either inaccurate, as yours was, or hyperdefensive of an outlook not universally shared.
Do you mean that you would like a nice little amusement for yourself and friends? Or does the thread now exist so that a differing perspective may be examined by all, however they find it necessary to have a look?
My comments about your use of "they" and such can be found elsewhere.
posted on May 2, 2001 11:24:56 AM
To the question:
"Where was your sense of righteous indignation the other night when jlpiece came in here and called the people discussing this topic "a confused bunch of wackos"? You were pretty silent then. Same for you, krs. But now that the ball's on the other side of the court, you both rush in crying foul"
Well, gee, Spaz. I didn't happen to be here, and by the time I saw it it had been dealt with. Your attempt to use such arguments cheapens you a great deal and only shows your high level of emotional involvement with the subject. Get your objectivity back.
posted on May 2, 2001 11:33:07 AM
Just catching up on the thread (don't any of you ever sleep?) SORRY! Posted out of context!
*quietly going back to lurk with my tail between my legs*
(yes, it's just a tail between my legs)
(yes, that was a joke)
[ edited by zoomin on May 2, 2001 12:37 PM ]
posted on May 2, 2001 11:33:59 AM
Okay, everyone, knock it off.
Everyone has a right to an opinion and should feel free to post it here. But opinions, like everything else, must be posted within the Community Guidelines. Keep in mind, it is a violation to discuss the individual rather than the topic.
If the bickering continues, I'll have no choice but to lock this thread.
posted on May 2, 2001 12:24:07 PM
Are we back to "they, Us and Them" again? Rocker, no, I dont want it shoved in my face. "They" may do commercials and whatever it is you say "they" do, but I sure havent been doing it. Dont you dare try to make this into something more personal, because its all on YOU as to your attitude. You just cant discuss this without getting all bent, and instead of being a spokesperson for those who feel as you do, you resort to what you said to jlpiece (yes, I asked someone who saw it). How quaint. Real professional. Har har. If a heterosexual man said that to a heterosexual woman, the same uproar would occur and you know it. This whole thread has been very informative. Too bad someone with no patience is trying to "teach".
And Spaz, Im surprised at you. You have been keeping a cool head through it all and have been very helpful, but are now resorting to the "us them" syndrome yourself. Also, concerning HCQ, she made a point of calling HERSELF names I wouldnt dream of using as those words are extremely derogatory, then had the gumption to get indignant if someone said something along the same lines? Please.
I have NEVER defended the right of someone to direct vulgar, lesbian-themed "jokes" at HartCottageQuilts.
If you are going to make such allegations, I think that you should
back it up.
How dare you try to compromise my reputation in this manner! You are
way out of line here.
I have never been judgemental anbout anyone's sexual orientation and neither has HartCottageQuilts. She was enjoying the remark in question and laughing about it along with everyone else. The remark included a word that neither I nor the moderator understood to be offensive.
HartCottageQuilts had offended the poster first and he answered with the "remark" that you refer to as a "joke." It was not a joke.
The remark was not even moderated. It was simply delivered in a humourous context. In fact, it was so innocuous that I read the remark
to my family and they found it funny.
I have not followed this thread and was not aware of the remark by
jlpiece that you refer to. It's not my job to moderate threads. I simply read the last page this morning and found that jlpiece had been unfairly moderated in my opinion.
For goodness sake, get a grip!
Helen
edited to remove a double signature and sp.
[ edited by HJw on May 2, 2001 01:08 PM ]
[ edited by HJw on May 2, 2001 01:13 PM ]
Back it up? You know as well as I do that the threads were deleted.
But you did stand by the person making those remarks, jokes, whatever:
It was not a joke. The remark was not even moderated. It was simply delivered in a humourous context. In fact, it was so innocuous that I read the remark to my family and they found it funny.
An innocuous remark delivered in a humorous context, one which you found funny enough to repeat to your family for their laughter and enjoyment ... that sure sounds like a joke to me, Helen, even if it wasn't prefaced by "Knock knock" or "Did you hear the one about ..."
She was enjoying the remark in question and laughing about it along with everyone else.
Is this supposed to mitigate the offensiveness of the things that were said to her, Helen? HCQ later said she found the remarks offensive, but at the time they were said she defended herself with bravado -- that is, trying to laugh off the attack even though it hurt her.
I simply read the last page this morning and found that jlpiece had been unfairly moderated in my opinion.
Maybe next time you should know the full story before you start protesting what you perceive as injustices.
"Helen, your earliest posts here defended the right of someone to direct vulgar, lesbian-themed "jokes" at HartCottageQuilts. I find these latest posts of yours hypocritical in the extreme."
posted on May 2, 2001 01:50:09 PM
Thank you, Irene. I guess only the original offensive post was deleted. Makes this a lot easier.
Helen,
The proof is in the thread. You stood by the person making the jokes/remarks, you encouraged that line of humor, and you tried to characterize me as disruptive when I spoke out against it.
This thread has become argumentative and disruptive. Bringing up ancient history and making personal remarks does nothing to further understanding of the original topic. I see nothing to be gained by continuing the discussion.
Regrettably, I feel the only appropriate thing is to lock it.
