posted on August 27, 2002 05:10:16 PM new
please keep us informed on the outcome.
if damon said paypal will honor the seller protection if you follow its requirements to the T,and it looks like you did,then paypal will have to be more diligent in going after the cc issuer ELSE it will pony up 900 dollars for a lousy few dollars it earned from the transaction.
the problem i did not mention in a cc dispute is that one clerk is talking to another clerk (paypal clerk presenting your case and the cc issuer clerk reviewing your case) .if paypal and you win,and the cc issuer throw the charge back to the russian,he could just get up and go back to russia,then guess who lose-the cc issuer!!!!
posted on August 27, 2002 06:48:47 PM new
1. Have a Verified U.S. or Canadian Business or Premier Account.
They have not disclosed it they met this requirement or not.
2. Ship to the buyer's Confirmed Address.
This is the PayPal confirmed address, not one the would have called and confirmed on the phone.
3. Be able to provide reasonable proof-of-shipment which can be tracked online. This document must show that you shipped to the buyer's Confirmed Address.
Lets see the UPS tracking number. That should be easy enough to provide. So far not provided.
4. Accept a single payment from one PayPal account for a purchase.
No mention if they complied here or not.
5. Ship only to a domestic (U.S.) buyer at a U.S. address.
The UPS tracking number will answer this. (BTW the OP mentioned the Russian. I only said if they shipped to Russia they were not covered.
6. When a complaint occurs, provide complete information within 7 days of a request from PayPal. However, if PayPal is required by the credit card association to respond immediately to resolve a chargeback, provide the information within 3 days. PayPal will indicate the response time required in the email message sent to you.
Was this info provide to PayPal within the mandated time frames?
posted on August 27, 2002 07:04:36 PM new
Coonr-give us a break!!
are you paypal customer service supervisor,you sound like a mother hen.
we all know paypal customer service sucks big time.
they probably just accept the mandate from the russian guy's cc issuer as they are so overwhelmed with complaints,their fax machine blew up,their toilets back up and their cooler ran out of water.
Most of us beleive someone when they say they have followed the rules, and in this case, the person said he followed the rules as stated in the TOS. You are the only questioning that following of the rules, not us. Unless you can prove otherwise, lets give him a benifit of the doubt.
posted on August 27, 2002 08:45:38 PM new
I am only trying to identify the cause of the problem. Unlike many here, I do not assume the problem is automatically on the part of PayPal. A recent analysis of one of the major hate sites prove the opposite.
The analysis (not done by me) of the complaints at one of the anomoyous PayPal hate sites yield the following results, 35 complaints, 9 lacked enough info to determine the problem, 5 were most probably the victim of one of the scam sites or emails over which PayPal has no control, 8 plainly did not comply with the terms of use, and 13 demonstrated they did not understand and comply with the terms of use. NONE demonstrated an error by PayPal.
posted on August 27, 2002 08:51:27 PM new
Give us a break Coonr, your stay at the PAYPONZI rest home didn't work.
Well said Stopwhinning I got tears in my ears from roflmao Coonr did you throw to much Charmin in the bowl ?
posted on August 28, 2002 12:25:13 AM new
I would love to take you up on your offer of service Damon IF I may contact you at PayPal.
This is only one small thread in vast amount of complaints. I am, by far, not the only customer of PAYPAL's that have been misled. I insist, at least at this point, to make PAYPAL handle PAYPAL's business at PAYPAL. You may help me because I am vocal and public on this thread. How many people that have been wronged by PAYPAL see this thread or others like it. Very few, I expect. I complain, you fix, I go away and PAYPAL will reel in some some more unsuspecting sellers that believe they are protected.
Damon, I will email you for your contact number at PAYPAL, which I will verify, like when I ship.
posted on August 28, 2002 12:54:19 AM new
To COONR and STOPWHINING:
I started this thread under a topic in AW for PAYPAL. I have yet to come across any threads that praise PAYPAL. Why is that? If you two had a respectable company to defend my one complaint would be buried long ago.
Why don't you start a thread for happy customers of PAYPAL. Do you have fears of being alone?
BE WISE DO NOT USE PAYPAL
If you still use PayPal. Send your money out as soon as paid to your bank, then send that money to another bank that is NOT registered to PayPal. This way, if they want their money on a charge back they will have to do an investigation and prove that they did.
Even if you have an account in good standing and you decide to close it, PayPal will hold your funds for 180 days, just in case there would be a charge back! Remember, move your money out fast, then move your money to an account not linked to PayPal.
posted on August 28, 2002 01:19:29 AM new
Analysis of the complaints at one of the anomoyous PayPal hate sites.
____________________________________
COONR, do you have the address of these sites and the analysis so we may review them ourselves or should we take your twisted word for it? Like trying to imply again that I shipped overseas. I said "Russian living in San Diago". That would be in the state of California, COONR. If you do not have a map handy it is located on the western seaboard of the country of the United States of America.
You should take a break from defending PAYPAL and bone up on your geography. You may fair better on that topic.
posted on August 28, 2002 07:16:15 AM new
A few posts back when you brought up the Russian you said,
My apologies to Stopwhining and thanks for the commandment.
I simply feel like a total fool for believing that if I did everything right by PayPal's guidelines that I was protected. How many others are there that stupidly believed the same thing?
The Russian bidder that bought from us, buys product and then just says he did not charge it. I am sure the police will catch up with him sometime, but since this game works so well, there will be a lot more sellers that will be unwittingly donating to him.
Where did you mention San Diago in that post? Yes I have the address of the sites and the analysis.
BTW, I know where Ca. is. I was there last week and will be again, next month.
posted on August 28, 2002 07:33:39 AM new
ljart53,
Until you email [email protected] the email address of your PayPal account he can't help you. I understand you are upset, but you need to calm down and send damon your email address so he can look at the account.
posted on August 28, 2002 09:42:33 AM new
*posted on August 26, 2002 07:50:50 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The man that bought was Russian living in San Diago. An easy scam in the USA to order product and then just say you didn't after you get it. We called him and he comfirmed he received the product. He loved it. Then again he new he would be getting it for free.
Our losses did go beyond the item. We had AW fees, Ebay fees, PayPal fees and shipping.
We only accept Bidpay now. I am in the process of collecting as many complaints about PayPal as I can, then I am going to forward then to as many news agencies I can. Hopefully one of them will find their business practices questionable.*
_________________________________
My appoligy was for assuming stopwhining was a rep for PAYPAL. I emailed Damon last night for his contact information, name and phone number, at PayPal. I will resolve my PAYPAL account at PAYPAL not on AuctionWatch.
BE WISE DO NOT USE PAYPAL
If you still use PayPal. Send your money out as soon as paid to your bank, then send that money to another bank that is NOT registered to PayPal. This way, if they want their money on a charge back they will have to do an investigation and prove that they did.
They say they do an investigation, but will supply no documentation to support that fact. Why would they spend the man hours to do an investigation when they already have no intention of following their own policies?
[ edited by ljart53 on Aug 28, 2002 09:43 AM ]
posted on August 28, 2002 11:53:55 AM new
I emailed Damon last night for his contact information, name and phone number, at PayPal. I will resolve my PAYPAL account AT PAYPAL not ON AuctionWatch.
Damon, you could address this one question:
If we supplied all of our documentation. Why is our money not immeadiatly released on an insured transaction? The fight, from the point of proving all was done correctly, should now be between PAYPAL's insurance company and the credit card company. I should be out of the loop with my proof and funds reinstated and covered by the insurance? Please answer.
posted on August 28, 2002 07:58:39 PM new
you ask why is your fund not immediately released??
one cannot assume you are the only customer they have.no institution immediately release fund??
if you stop using paypal and apply for a merchant account,you could still lose the chargeback with all the precautions of signature receipt,id ,bill to address.
if you use bidpay and get a western union check and too many of your customers use stolen card,bidpay may not want to do business with you.
always remember,you bring in the customer,it is your transaction,it is your customer,it is your merchandise which you gladly list on ebay for bidding,no third party payment service be it paypal,billpoint or bidpay find you this customer.
no one twists your arm to list on ebay,no one twist your arm to email the high bidder and no one twist your arm to accept his payment and no one twist your arm to ship the item.
i wonder why you dont have any gripe against ebay,after all this russian is registered with ebay??
posted on August 29, 2002 12:28:28 AM new
Are you able to read AND comprehend what you are reading STOPWHINING? First of all the question was addressed to DAMON, the rep for PAYPAL here.
Since you are to thick to get it, I will explain again. I chose PAYPAL because I believed in their policy of protection, which they do not stand behind!
Once I submitted my proof they should reliese my funds. I complied and they did not!
If you do not mind, I will wait for a response from the rep. DAMON. BE WISE DO NOT USE PAYPAL
********************************
NOTE:
If you still use PayPal. Send your money out as soon as paid to your bank, then send that money to another bank that is NOT registered to PayPal. This way, if they want their money on a charge back they will have to do an investigation and prove that they did.
They say they do an investigation, but will supply no documentation to support that fact. Why would they spend the man hours to do an investigation when they already have no intention of following their own policies?
Even if you have an account in good standing and you decide to close it, PayPal will hold your funds for 180 days, just in case there would be a charge back! Remember, move your money out fast, then move your money to an account not linked to PayPal.
posted on August 29, 2002 06:00:15 AM new
this is a public forum,anyone can read and post,if you come to this forum looking for sympathy and support and no criticism,you must be living in a rose garden.
you want immeidiate release of your fund,you assume investigation has been conducted and you assume they are holding back the information and not keeping you updated.
you said paypal will hold your fund for 180 days even tho an account is in good standing,good standing is based on historical data,domestic chargebacks take 2 months to show up and intl chargebacks,worse.
you said you choose paypal because of its policy(seller protection),so now you said you will take bidpay.
do you think bidpay would like to eat chargebacks to the tune of 900 dollars??they are going to ask you to take your business somewhere else if it happens one time too many.
may be you should ask yourself why are you doing business with russian in san diego??
posted on August 29, 2002 07:39:31 AM newEven if you have an account in good standing and you decide to close it, PayPal will hold your funds for 180 days, just in case there would be a charge back! Remember, move your money out fast, then move your money to an account not linked to PayPal.
I assume you have some fact to back up your claim? I have never seen anyone every even claim this has happened.
posted on August 29, 2002 09:50:51 AM new
if an account has outstanding disputes,complaints etc,it is not considered in good standing.
pending investigation to the tune of 900 dollars would place an account in not so good standing.
why do you want to close your account ??
how is paypal supposed to reimburse you for your 900 dollars if your account is closed??
posted on August 29, 2002 07:41:35 PM new
TO STOPWHINING:
I came here looking to see if anyone had experianced the same problem and was shocked at the amount of complaints you can find about PAYPAL.
I did not come here looking for sympathy nor support and INTELLIGENT criticism is always welcome.
As far as an investigation goes, I do not care if it was completed or not, my responsibility should end when I produced proof of compliance with the rules. Remenber they offer a Protection Plan. Do you actually read and understand what you are reading?
-------------------------------
STOPWHINING's STATEMENT: may be you should ask yourself why are you doing business with russian in san diego??
-------------------------------
Maybe I should ask myself why I am responding to such a rediculous individual such as yourself. If PayPal was smart they would pay you off not to defend them. You speaking for them, makes them look worse then their business practices.
TO COONR: You quote all of PayPal's guidelines. Go look it up yourself.
posted on August 30, 2002 12:42:54 AM new
Sorry COONR you are wrong.
*****************************************
Closing Your Account. You may close your account at any time by clicking the "Close Account" link in your Profile on the PayPal website. Upon closure of an account, any pending transactions will be cancelled. Any funds that we are holding in custody for you at the time of closure, less any applicable fees, will be paid to you by check, assuming all withdrawal related authentication requirements have been fulfilled (for example, you may not use closure of your account as a means of evading withdrawal limits on new Unverified users). You may not use closure of your account as a means of evading investigation - if an investigation is pending at the time you close your account, PayPal may continue to hold your funds for up to 180 days as appropriate to protect PayPal against the risk of reversals. If you are later determined to be entitled to some or all of the funds in dispute, PayPal will make an additional payment of those funds to you. You will remain liable for all obligations related to your account even after such account is closed.
posted on August 30, 2002 05:40:50 AM new
ljart53,
You are saying one thing and offering as evidence something that says something different.
You say - Even if you have an account in good standing and you decide to close it, PayPal will hold your funds for 180 days, just in case there would be a charge back!
You offer this from the TOS as your evidence - if an investigation is pending at the time you close your account, PayPal may continue to hold your funds for up to 180 days as appropriate to protect PayPal against the risk of reversals.
Again, I realize you are upset, but what you are saying, and what you offer as proof doesn't say the same thing.
posted on August 30, 2002 10:15:00 AM new
i dont know why people think i work for paypal,it is just more people use paypal than any other service.
if you want to continue selling and accept credit card either thru third party payment services or with your own merchant account,you can learn a lot of how these services operate by learning how merchant account works.
paypal is behaving more and more like a merchant account provider ,rolling reserve,holding back in case of this and that,lousy customer service etc.
i was in a shouting match with paymentech,my ex merchant account provider yesterday,they have turnover problem,they have diff depts which only deal with one area,they have system which dont seem to work properly etc etc.
if you have a merchant account,you will get a person on the phone but it does not mean you see your money pronto.
it is just not their nature to refund promptly in case ,just in case we are all from mars.
posted on August 30, 2002 11:20:26 AM new
*****************************************
" Any funds that we are holding in custody for you at the time of closure, less any applicable fees, will be paid to you by check, assuming all withdrawal related authentication requirements have been fulfilled (for example, you may not use closure of your account as a means of evading withdrawal limits on new Unverified users)."
******************************************
Let's say you have curently been accepting credit cards payments in your account and you decide to close your account. PayPal will hold on to enough money to cover those charges for 180 days in case there may be a chargeback. The statement below comes AFTER the statement above. PayPal has a way of wording their rules so it is hard to understand what you are getting yourself into. I stand behind my statement.
*******************************************
"...if an investigation is pending at the time you close your account, PayPal may..."
posted on August 30, 2002 11:37:30 AM new
Make sure you pay attention the the
"withdrawal limits"
part! This is where they will hold your money for up to 180 days. This statement is before any atatement about an account under investigation.
All said, PAYPAL might take the high road and simply be honest with customers. They could say " We will do all we can do to verify any credit card customers, but sell at your own risk" I think you would still get a great amount of sellers that would still take the risk, just to be able to accept credit cards. No one would lodge complaints against PAYPAL because they would go into it knowing they took the risk. It is when they think they are covered that PAYPAL gets these complaints.
The chargeback was canceled today. They reviewed the information relative to Seller Protection and you were in compliance.
Regards,
Damon
****************************************
When I emailed Damon I did not give him my account information. I did not want to ask for his help at this time. I wanted to know I could trust doing business with PAYPAL at PAYPAL not on AW. I knew I took a risk by posting on EBAY that he might find my account information through my user name. He has come in like a trooper and PAYPAL has returned our money. Thank you Damon.
Of course I am very grateful to Damon for getting our money back to us, but I am not happy that I had to go to AuctionWatch to get that accompolished. I wanted to go to the company I signed up with and have them honor their policies, instead I will be left knowing that only because I was publicly vocal did I get any action. How many customers are there that do not think to do what I have done and get vocal on line? The rightful return of our funds does not explain all the complaints against PAYPAL nor their treatment of us and others by PAYPAL's customer service. Nor does it explain the people like (COONR, STOPWHINING) that have thousands of posts on AW and EBAY, that are in the defense of PAYPAL, making demeaning attacks on customers who have lodged complaints. With all the complains against PAYPAL you would think when you run into these post that there would be people representing PAYPAL with more character then the same ones found going to all these post. Of course they are employees of PAYPAL. Nothing else can explain why they have literally thousands and thousands of posts on the same subject. No one would do this unless they have a complaint or GETTING PAID TO DO IT.
Once again, thank you for getting our money returned Damon.
