posted on August 30, 2002 02:53:49 PM new
AW is a public forum,you get both the pros and cons-by drawing a lot of attention to your case,you get immediate attention from paypal staff/
of course not everyone is going to play patty cake with you.
i just read a post on yahoo shop forum-
shopowner shipped a 6000 item thru trucking company to a customer who paid for with his cc,everything checked out on the cc and he signed the bill of lading.
2 weeks later,customer asked his cc company to cancel his card,said he never bot any item and he never receive such item.
the shopowner merchant account provider and the customer cc issuer said to the shopowner-you eat the loss.
shopowner hired a private detective and found out customer has moved to a new addr and local police wont touch him.
so now what??
posted on August 30, 2002 10:00:01 PM new
" AW is a public forum,you get both the pros and cons-by drawing a lot of attention to your case,you get immediate attention from paypal staff/
of course not everyone is going to play patty cake with you."
No one played patty-cake with us and we only got immediate attention from being publicly vocal, not from PayPal. The only thing PayPal offered was rude customer service and very evasive answers.
If this shop owner followed all the guidelines, as we did, and merchant account provider offered protection then as soon as he provided proof of delivery his money should be returned and the battle should be between the merchant account provider and the credit card company. Whoever is insuring them will probably take the loss and should take the loss, that is what they charge premiums for..
posted on August 31, 2002 06:29:16 AM new
ljart53,
i see now you expect the cc issuer and the merchant account provider to play patty cake with you.
i think you should start another thread-ALWAYS PAYPAL.
with merchant account,the provider provides a service as a go between ,it does not eat losses.
posted on August 31, 2002 04:49:38 PM new
Now where is that Coonr....
Time to eat crow. As you noticed, PayPal had absolutely no right to withold the funds, freeze any account for even a single day, but they did. Unfortunately for them, they were faced with absolutely irrefutable evidence and even then they delayed. Don't think for a second they wouldn't have tried though...
And stopwhining...
The merchant account always eats the losses UNLESS they get the restitution from the CREDIT CARD USER ONLY! Never, ever the product supplier. Try and cite one other case where the merchant account got the restitution from the product SUPPLIER.
Where are your cheers and accolades for PayPal now.
.
A Man will spend $2.00 for a $1.00 item he needs.
A Woman will spend $1.00 for a $2.00 item she doesn't need.
[ edited by mlecher on Aug 31, 2002 04:54 PM ]
posted on August 31, 2002 06:15:19 PM new
mlecher,
put on your glasses (spectacles),and stop playing patty cake .
i said-merchant account provider (the bank or financial institution which provides the merchant with a merchant account to process credit card) does not eat losses.
the merchant,if he loses the chargeback,eats the loss!
merchant = seller
merchant account provider = process the credit card transaction and deposit the proceeds in merchant 's bank account
credit card holder=buyer
credit card issuer= the bank /financial institution which issues the credit card to the credit cardholder (buyer).
in a chargeback dispute,the credit card issuer decides which side win.
of course the loser can appeal to higher court but it is very costly .
you have to have a merchant account to understand how it works and what it is like to eat chargeback.i have eaten chargebacks,and i know what it is like.
also-after eating enough chargeback,the merchant is considered not as credit worthy by his own merchant account provider,so the consequences can be one or more of the following-
discount rate goes up
takes longer to get your proceeds deposited in your bank account
daily reserve or rolling reserve
or worse goodbye charlie,take your business somewhere else.
posted on August 31, 2002 08:00:07 PM new
I just want to comment on two things.
1. Paypal's customer service impressed me by calling me personally when my spending habits seem out of the ordinary to verify my debits from my account. I have not had any chargebacks and may feel different if that happens.
2. I recently had a friend who had money taken from his acct and was told that it was an inside job, but they were narrowing it down. Furthermore, Paypal deposited the money back in his acct within a few days. He was very happy with their actions.
I have not had any negative dealings with paypal. I hope I never do although I realize there are always those folks out there who will try to scam us. I usually move funds around to prevent chargebacks just in case. At least if I have to pay back a customer, they will have to ask me for it and prove to me that they didn't get it. And I always state that if they dont insure it, its their risk not mine.
Stay Safe!
posted on August 31, 2002 08:18:21 PM new
ljart53 -
Glad to hear you got things straightened out. But you and everyone else might notice that Damon didn't come back to this thread, asking for you to tell everyone it was all your fault. And coonr hasn't come back, telling the OP that she's not telling the truth, and trying to twist your words around... etc. It's because they're busy hanging their heads in shame (as they should be). They were wrong - but you'll never hear it from them.
It's like Flaiosland said earlier in the thread... The person affected ends up thinking Damon is some kind of hero, when all he did was what PayPal should have done to begin with - if they ran their company right, there would be no reason for him to troll the 'complaint' boards - trying to keep people quiet.
Good luck if you continue to use PayPal.
[ edited by litlcrafty1 on Aug 31, 2002 08:28 PM ]
posted on August 31, 2002 09:56:13 PM new
I sure would like to personally talk to the person who Payponzi admitted it was an inside job. I've contended that it happened to me, but Payponzi wouldn't even look into it.
posted on August 31, 2002 11:18:24 PM new
We had used PAYPAL for some time with no problems. We had at one time been alerted promptly when we used our card 4 times in a small amount of time. How nice!
It is when they took all our money that we found out what kind of people work for PAYPAL. They gave us every kind of double-talk they could. Everyone we spoke to gave us a different answer, rudely, I might add. The next step was to hang up on us when we demanded straight answers.
I decided to get on the internet and find some answers. What did I find but complaints, complaints, complaints and the ONLY PEOPLE defending PAYPAL was RUDE, DEMEANING, ACCUSITORY TOUNG TWISTERS, like STOPWHINING AND COONR. Doing whatever they could to discredit the customer. Always with their smart _ _ _ remarks like some snotty teenager. They have literaly thousands and thousands of post on every thread about PAYPAL. Of course they are employed by PAYPAL, why else would they devote years to the defense of PAYPAL. At least Damon was always direct and respectful. Are they playing good cop bad cop? I do not know. I do know that it is time some parent knocks on STOPWHINING's bedroom door, drags him out and plays pattycake on his behind. It is OK to grow up STOPWHINING, we all have to do it.
*************************************
BE WISE DO NOT USE PAYPAL
If you still use PayPal. Send your money out as soon as paid to your bank, then send that money to another bank that is NOT registered to PayPal. This way, if they want their money on a charge back they will have to do an investigation and prove that they did. Also if you use PayPal, DO NOT accept any credit card payments, only cash transfers. Use BidPay for credit cards and offer the customer a small reduction ( the fees PayPal would have charged you) to help defray the charges. This is working for us and we can ship before we get the check, that is GUARANTEED!
Even if you have an account in good standing and you decide to close it, PayPal will hold your funds for 180 days, just in case there would be a charge back! Remember, move your money out fast, then move your money to an account not linked to PayPal.
----------------------------------
When PAYPAL proves it did an investigation and proves you did not follow the guidlines and you lose on the chargeback, you then return the funds. It would only go to court if you lost and you did not return the funds. But as long as PAYPAL has your money they have no incentive to investigate the transaction. PAYPAL is certainly not worried about it's reputation or it's unsavory business practices.
[ edited by ljart53 on Aug 31, 2002 11:30 PM ]
posted on August 31, 2002 11:25:58 PM new
Remember folks you are trusting you money with a company that has people like COONR and STOPWHINING representing them! That alone should be enough to make anyone run in the other direction!
No we will not be doing business with PAYPAL again, for no other reason then CONNR and STOPWHINING. They are our final reason to leave. You cannot trust any business that would employ people like this.
posted on September 1, 2002 07:21:21 AM new
i am too old to have my parents spank my behind,by the way,my mother is here visiting and i have been wining and dining her every nite using my paypal debit card.
i am just preparing you for the real world in case you are such a successful retailer that you moved away from paypal and get your own merchant account.
i never said it is your fault,you follow the seller rules to a T,but if you go back to prior threads,there are folks who did not get covered by seller protection program.
on second thought,i hope you have a nice job outside selling in cyberspace,you will need it to pay your bills.
goodbye and good luck.
posted on September 1, 2002 09:29:16 AM newljart53Of course they are employed by PAYPAL, why else would they devote years to the defense of PAYPAL.
Do you think Coonr and Stopwhining would risk wire fraud charges to post on this message board? Since they've posted on this message board a long time even when PayPal was issuing its IPO and was in a SEC ordered 'quite period' your baseless accusation is pretty silly. Really silly if you have the capacity to give it some logical thought.
I've tried to be polite to you, but you do make it difficult. Did you really think your threats of contacting FOX News, or the justice department was a valid avenue to correct your problem? Very, very, very, silly, a fruitless tactic only employed by the extremely high strung. Simply because two posters didn't take every word you said absolute fact and asked for more details you've decided that's proof they are PayPal employees. You're too high strung to be using PayPal, a merchant account, or any other service for non-point of sales.
A simple post saying "Damon, I'm having a problem with my account my address is [email protected]," would have given you just as speedy a resolution as the tirade you choose to use. I firmly believe that. Even with the problem resolved you remain high strung. Will PayPal suffer over the lost of one high strung customer like yourself? I doubt it.
posted on September 1, 2002 04:17:24 PM new
Please read the post of the people representing and defending PAYPAL. Then ask yourself if this is the type of business you want to trust your money with.
posted on September 1, 2002 04:56:53 PM new
ljart53 -
uaru's one of 'Them'. While none of them may work directly for paypal, you can bet there's a reason they don't have problems with paypal. (i.e., As long as they average 5 posts a day, every day in defense of PayPal).
I'm sure they'll deny it, but when you look at the number and kinds of problems people have (including yours, which should have never been a problem) - you can't tell me it's a coincidence the paypal apologists are problem free.
posted on September 2, 2002 03:37:30 AM new
litlcrafty1, yes, I am aware that UARU is another employee. They may say they are not, but nothing else makes sense. By the way club1man, you crack me up! I saw an artical in a tech mag. and one of the top guys at PAYPAL looked as though he was 17 years old and after reading these post by stopwhining and coonr, I feel this company is run by children.
We did get our money back and I am sure they thought I would just go away. If I had read these post before, I would never have done business with a company that employs such rude unprofessional people!
My husband wanted to stay with PAYPAL since we did get our money back. I begged him to take the time to read these post by COONR, STOPWHINING AND UARU, before making that decision. Of course that settled it. NO PAYPAL! NEVER AGAIN!
Our customers have been paying with BIDPAY. BIDPAY does charge the bidder a fee but we just deduct the fees PAYPAL would have charged off the price of the auction and have not had one person decide not to use it. So much safer then PAYPAL!
I made up and email that we send to customers about why we will no longer accept PAYPAL. It consist of post from coonr, stopwhining and uaru and their lenghty history of post from AW, Ebay and Yahoo. They are as shocked as I was to see who represents PAYPAL.
posted on September 2, 2002 10:12:16 AM new
Congratulations ljart53, it would appear that you are in the league of club1man and litcrafty1. Not many on this forum are blessed with a mind that works on such a level.
posted on September 2, 2002 11:28:51 AM new
ljart53,
just remember ,in case you are such a fart you cant remember-IT IS YOU WHO LISTED ON EBAY,IT IS YOU WHO CONTACTED THE HIGH BIDDER,IT IS YOU WHO ACCEPTED HIS PAYPAL PAYMENT,IT IS YOU WHO SHIPPED THE ITEM.
you are one hell of a fart!!!!!!!
posted on September 2, 2002 11:33:17 AM new
Ljart53, The PAYPONZI stooges would have you believe that PAYPONZI can do no wrong. The fact is the company is made up of arrorgant kids that the only way of making money is "stealing it". The three of them have a combined total of almost 6000 posts, just on this board. The top dog being Uaru with 3750+. Figure it out, they talk about us!!!!!! When it comes to PAYPONZI no other company in history has generated so many complaint forums and unsatisfied customers. I haven't found any other company that has full time employees that have one and only one duty. That duty is scouring the internet to day after day and lying about people. Unfortunately these SHILLS dupe a lot of unsuspecting customers into thinking their money is safe. Take a look at x.com and see how they left people holding the bag.
posted on September 2, 2002 01:02:32 PM new
That's where your wrong. The chargebacks you speak of were a result of PAYPONZI"S theft process. Credit cards failed the AVC process and were still accepted by them, others were listed on multiple accounts. People signed statements that their credit cards were not stolen,or out of their possession(possible employee theft) and others I proved were legitimate transfers. Yes, there were possibly a few that were fraud, proving PAYPONZI'S fraud detection is less than worthless. Their employee's blatant lies under oath only proves that PAYPONZI and their exec's are the worst kind of slime in the corporate world. Their CEO didn't even have the intestinal fortitude to show up to testify. He's well known for running and hiding.
So maybe it's you who should look in the mirror, for supporting a company like this. Calling honest people "stupid farts" is just a way of showing that your brain is something that you sit on.
posted on September 2, 2002 01:14:03 PM new
Club1man,
You should add to that rant, that in your case, the impartial mediator ruled in favor of PayPal. Oh thats right he was not impartial he was part of the plot.
posted on September 2, 2002 01:52:02 PM new
Coonr, Get your facts straight. The"arbitrator" ruled that I was covered under the seller protection plan. He was mistaken when he awarded me 5000 dollars, because the chargebacks happened in 2 different calander years.[see TOS for Oct.2000]. Also it was PAYPONZI'S limits that prevented me from getting it all back. If the "impartial arbitrator" had awarded me 10,000 dollars it would have meant that PAYPONZI would have lost the majority. Meaning that they had spent $338,000.00 in legal fees to get back $3,000.00. By the way those legal fees were as of Feb.2002. The "impartial arbitrator" still for some reason has failed to make a final decission. Over 7 months and PAYPONZI'S lawyers are still billing them. Last I saw was $1,100.00 an hour, but now maybe they have cut down from 3 lawyers and 2 paralegals.
The "impartial arbitrator" as of 4 months ago can't figure out if he can award PAYPONZI legal fees. I thought an arbitrator was supposed to know what he was doing. Anyway PAYPONZI has spent somewhere near a half a million dollars trying to get $13,000 out of me. And all I wanted before this got started was my money back.
[ edited by club1man on Sep 2, 2002 01:56 PM ]
posted on September 2, 2002 02:20:09 PM new
Club1man,
I think I got it.
You should add to that rant, that in your case, the impartial mediator ruled in favor of PayPal. Oh thats right he was not impartial he was part just incompotent.
posted on September 2, 2002 03:43:05 PM newYou should add to that rant, that in your case, the impartial mediator ruled in favor of PayPal. Oh thats right he was not impartial he was part just incompotent.????????
You do have a point about incompetence. After spending over a year and a half on this case and billing some $20,000.00 for his services, it is amazing that now he can't figure out what to do. If you went to a real court of law and a judge or jury couldn't make up it's mind, what would you think. Would a judge or a jury in a real court of law make a decission and then say "ut oh were not sure now", and then you don't hear from them for 3 or more months.
Also, why is it that in every law suit that has been filed against PAYPONZI their lawyers are fighting desperately to keep them out of a real court of law and force it into arbitration on their home ground. These suits don't have to do with their TOS, they are about violating the consumer protection act.
Actually I don't think he's incompotent but i feel there's something bad wrong in San Francisco and eventually I'll find out about it.
posted on September 2, 2002 04:36:20 PM new
club1man,
Stopwhining states:
"any one who ate 71 chargebacks should not be posting here,"
How does he know this unless he is an employee? If this is true, and he would have know way of knowing this unless he was an employee or you gave detailed information , I would be looking for an attorney and go after PAYPAL for all it was worth.
As for STOPWHINING calling me a name? Don't worry about it. I work at a school for unruly teens. I am used to their behavior.
His tactic is simple. He hopes he can insult people enough that they will go away and not warn anyone about PAYPAL and the conduct of their employees.
Damon,you work at PAYPAL, how do you feel about the way these people that support PAYPAL (coonr, stopwhining and uaru) attacking your customers? I have searched all through these posts to find any commentary asking these people if they are pro PAYPAL to not interfer with your ability to solve customer complaints. They have been posting for years, as you have, and you have done nothing to defend PayPal against such unsavory characters. They were my final reason for deciding I could not trust this company.
[ edited by ljart53 on Sep 2, 2002 07:44 PM ]
posted on September 2, 2002 05:11:54 PM newHow does he know this unless he is an employee?
Simple. Stoney has psoted info all over the internet.
Damon,you work at PAYPAL, how do you feel about the way these people that support PAYPAL (coonr, stopwhining and uaru) attack your customers?
Asking questions is not an attack.
I have searched all through these posts to find any commentary asking these people if they are pro PAYPAL to not interfer with your ability to solve customer complaints.
Asking questions cannot hamper the ability to solve complaints. In fact it will most often solve the problem.
[ edited by mlecher on Aug 31, 2002 04:54 PM ]
