posted on May 19, 2001 11:17:19 AM new"Ebay is in Delaware. It doesn't matter where they operate. IIt matters where they pay their taxes. Same as you and me."-krs
Wrong again, we pay our taxes in the state we are operating in and living in. Corporations don't have to.
posted on May 19, 2001 11:43:16 AM new
I'll even make it simpler. You have to go to eBay for a job interview. Go to Delaware, and see wht you find. "But I thought ebay was located in Delaware" shouts krs.
posted on May 19, 2001 11:47:07 AM new
I am glad the prices are so high. Many, many jobs in depressed areas that have not yet recovered from the bust of the early 80's.
I would much rather pay the high prices and see people getting paid a good wage than see Wal-Mart and McDonald's getting richer off the backs of those who do not have many options in life.
In rural Texas/Oklahoma there aren't a whole lot of options for many people. My husband has worked for a oilfield service company for 7 years. Before he was made a service supervisor in January and put on salary we lived a crazy life. One month he would bring home $7000 the next $2000, lots of people live that way in the oil field.
Where is all the outrage at the other huge corporations? Companies that won't even employ Americans, those that make billions and billions of dollars but pay all their employees minimum wage? Heather
posted on May 19, 2001 12:22:39 PM new
I was the third generation in my family to work for the oil industry. My grandfather worked for Gulf, my father worked for Sinclair, I worked primarily for Atlantic Richfield (ARCO). Guess which of those companies are still in existence? None.
I'd imagine there are others on this message board that are in the oil industry, either services, tools and equipment, exploration and development, processing and transportation, etc.. If so I'm sure they'll back me up at the incredible amount of expenses from safety regulations, and environmental regulations.
If the price of orange juice makes a sharp increase it is due to a poor crop or weather conditions, if the price of oil increases it is because of a giant secret conspiracy. Another oil shortage is what the country needs I think, people forgot the lessons of 73 and 79. While they'll be more convinced than ever it is a secret conspiracy they won't be protesting the opening of areas for development as loudly.
I've seen the oil fields in the Venezuelan jungles, the platforms in the Gulf of Mexico, and the oil fields inside the arctic circle. The challenges the companies faced to develop and produce those fields is mind boggling, its a shame that their accomplishments aren't recognized for what they are, which is one incredible technological achievement. You should see the oil fields in the arctic circle and how carefully they've been planned. Everyone I ever spoke with that came up there on a company tour were amazed at the operation.
posted on May 19, 2001 12:36:48 PM new
uaru: Wasn't Gulf a great company? My father was a drilling rep for them for many years, after Chevron took them over they went to crap. He left the company in 1992 to open his own consulting firm.
My husband works for BJ Services, used to be The Western Company. He has been working 100 hour weeks for the last year, and so has everyone else we know who works the fields. Up until a year ago we lived in a town of almost 20,000. It was decimated after the oil crash. The last 10 years the town has really come back, new stores, tons of new jobs. But, as uaru said, it is all a conspiracy to screw consumers, isn't it?
posted on May 19, 2001 01:18:08 PM newWasn't Gulf a great company? My father was a drilling rep for them for many years
Yes, they treated my grandfather good, and took care of my grandmother when he was gone. The oil industry does take care of their employees mainly because most are highly skilled and necessary. You don't just shove a pipe in the ground and get gasoline, it is an extremely technical industry that requires a lot of expertise an many areas. I worked with a directional drilling company for several years, they have developed that to such an art that a blowout can be controlled by drilling another well a mile away and drilling right into the blowout and smother it that way.
posted on May 19, 2001 01:23:12 PM new
Quit complaining--working oil gets your foot in the door, same as working railroads did for Chinese. In a hundred years or so your Okie grandchildren will be respectablee Amercuns too.
posted on May 19, 2001 02:34:33 PM new
The remaining vestiges of corporate paternalism were quickly eliminated (though they had been slowly dying for a couple of decades) by the oil companies in the late Seventies. Since that time they haven't batted an eyelash at screwing any employee, especially older, more expensive ones, out of a job or benefits whenever possible. And the only safety and environmental precautions and safeguards that they enact and maintain are those mandated by OSHA and the fear of civil lawsuits or social censure. Anything beyond that is purely an allocation for advertising, attempting to buy good will.
My father worked for a major oil company and one of my brothers was in charge of the division that oversaw interpretation and management of OSHA regulations. I not only grew up with this oil company background, but I also taught for many years in a company town, the headquarters and research center for Phillips Petroleum Company. Though directly and indirectly I have benefitted from the affluence of oil companies, I've seen and heard too much to develop any romanticized views about it.
posted on May 19, 2001 04:15:22 PM newspaz, the bold face is for those with short attention spans and A.D.D. - both of which run rampant on these boards.
posted on May 19, 2001 09:46:03 PM new
OK, if you are such big supporters of oil companies, here's what I want you to do: you will send to me a money order for $100.00 each and every month for the rest of my life.
posted on May 19, 2001 10:00:34 PM new
If you were to send them some money, as our illustrious leader has been accused of doing, then they'd send you a check every month....well, every 3 months anyway...
Love those DRIP's...
Pat
Success is where opportunity and preparation meet.
posted on May 19, 2001 10:05:19 PM newOK, if you are such big supporters of oil companies, here's what I want you to do: you will send to me a money order for $100.00 each and every month for the rest of my life.
I don't know that I should ask, but curiosity has got the best of me. Why do you deserve $1,200 a year from someone that sides with the oil industry on some issues?
Are you going to hit me up for more subsidies if I support the beef industry, or the utility company?
It is late and I've had a few drinks, but I kind of doubt that I'll understand your post any better tomorrow morning.
posted on May 19, 2001 11:56:14 PM new
Thank you uaru for asking.
The answer is that asking for such a gift is sheer fantasy. And fantasy is what the oil industry is all about. We do not need to be held hostage to oil. Our automobiles do not need gasoline to get us around. Oil does not need to heat our homes during the winter, nor keep it cool during the summer. That is a fantasy that they oil companies created and perpetuate.
Certainly, oil does come in handy for a vast number of things, including the making of plastic. But without automobiles buring gasoline, our homes using oil to heat or to cool, and not even is it necessary to burn it to make electricity that we need, then the average household would use oil to a far, far lesser degree than it does now.
Oh, come. Don't talk about electric cars: alchohol-buring cars exist; their fuel is renewable and when combusted within an engine, pure water is exhausted, not petroleum by-products.
If large tax credits were given so that every home in America could convert their rooftops to solar power and solar heating, then think of how little power we'd need from the utility companies? Actually, if that was the case and most homes would generate more electricity than one needs, then all homes would be the generating source for electricty.
It's not a far-fetched idea at all.
What is far-fetched is the notion that science stopped dead in its tracks a 130 years ago and that no alternatives exist today for oil, coal, and now nuclear power.
Why should we just continue to use oil (gasoline) for fuel? Why? Give me one good reason as to why! It makes us hostage to oil companies and it pollutes the environment in ways that 50 years from now you won't have televangelists ridiculing the notion of rising sea levels and deadly solar radiation, but will be praying to God to help us to fix it.
Oil companies create the market and make it stay. Oil companies are both directly and indirectly responsible for mass pollution of this planet - directly through their "accidents" and by-products of getting the oil out of the earth and transporting it about and indirectly through promoting the continued use of gasoline and oil for fuel. That doesn't make them less than the devil in my book.
One person wrote about how their loved one was in the oil industry. Let me relate how here in the Pacific Northwest, we were in the Lumber business; saw mills, tree cutters, truck drivers - you name it! The economy shifted, the old-growth forest became battlegrounds for loggers and environmentalists in government forests, and finally, after many years of screaming, crying, and general bitching, it finnally became obvious to everyone that those days were over for the most part. The ex-loggers and sawmill workers and truck drivers and so on were retrained to take jobs in the new economy. So I say to oil industry workers - go learn a new trade!
But, you can be for all of this nonsense too! Just lack vision -- a traditional conservative trait, stick your head in the sand and pretend that oil companies are not bad for the environment, blind your eyes when you pay for fuel you do not really need at the gas pumps and oil burners in your home. It's simple really.
edited for sp. that got past my sp. checker.
[ edited by Borillar on May 20, 2001 12:01 AM ]
posted on May 20, 2001 12:43:02 AM new
Borillar you live up here too? hmmmm
And you obviously don't drive a car, by your post, or you own an electric one? And do you use solar or wind power for your home, it can get cold here.
Lumber is still going up here, our family business went under, but Weyerhauser is still here. And they have been re planting for a long time.
I don't chain myself to trees, or such nonsense. I do believe in conservation, which can be done by replanting, and avoiding old growth.
Yes we have become dependant on oil. And yes,
shoot me, but I do believe their are still resources for it here, without stipping the land in Alaska. Like I said shoot me.
Right now, I need my car. Shoot me again.
I need my furnace, or wood (gasp!) for the woodstove.
posted on May 20, 2001 07:35:07 AM new
Fossil fuels have, to a large degree, fueled the industrial and technological revolutions that swept our planet over the last 100-130 years. They have served an important purpose in the evolution of our species.
Many of us have been pondering the next evolution, quietly. We have been taking steps in our own lives in these directions.
There will come a time that our (baby boomers) great-grandchildren will read about our struggles and wonder what things were like in such a cruel, polluted world. Much as many of us are amazed how someone could travel across our great country in a horse-drawn wagon.
Evolution isn't easy....it's excrutiatingly hard.
But, our survival depends on it.....are we ready for what awaits us?
posted on May 20, 2001 07:58:04 AM newBorillarAnd fantasy is what the oil industry is all about.
There are many things that are possible. Unfortunately what is possible and what is economically realistic aren't always the same thing.
I'm sure it is possible to install sprinkler systems in every house and business in America and have little need for a fire department. They don't require these sprinklers because of some large scale conspiracy headed by fire fighters. Economics is a factor, many times it is THE factor.
Please don't think my arguments on the oil industries has anything to do with protecting my rice bowl, it doesn't. I'm retired for health reasons. I could work in many industrial fields where process controls are required. Whether the control systems are to control the level, pressure, flowrate, or temperature in diesel refining process, or a unit producing methanol makes no difference to me.
posted on May 20, 2001 11:26:45 AM new
"But, you can be for all of this nonsense too! Just lack vision -- a traditional conservative trait, stick your head in the sand and pretend that oil companies are not bad for the environment, blind your eyes when you pay for fuel you do not really need at the gas pumps and oil burners in your home. It's simple really."-borillar
Sounds great, now how do you get around and heat your home? Just curious.
Quit complaining about it, and if it is so simple to do, do it. In fact, market your ideas, and make a fortune off of us dinosaurs. If I can run my car off of alcohol for the close to the same price or cheaper and help the environment as you say, I'm all for it. I just can't seem to find any alcohol powered cars here in Motown.
posted on May 20, 2001 11:30:40 AM new
He has to have solar or wind for electricity, and I don't know, he could take the bus. Lots do.
BUT the idea of solar power is great, I don't think it would work for industries that need the power. It would not be economical in this plan you suggested.
posted on May 20, 2001 12:24:01 PM new
Hello NearTheSea from Portland, Oregon!
OK. First, I do not own an electric car. As soon as Bush allows the automobile industry to release them onto the market here, I am going to be the first to own one! I understand that some sort of government red tape is holding up main distribution of these vehicles.
SOLAR POWER
-----------
I saw on CNN a week ago where to put enough solar panels on a roof to supply all of the average homeowner's needs for electricty it costs an average of $45,000. And that was from interviewing a company who does such work in California.
Right now, there is a $12,500 tax credit for home owners to upgrade thier homes to be more efficient. There have been calls in Congress to raise that credit to the $45,000 level so that all homes in America could become electrically self-sufficient for the most part and actually contribute electricity to the grid most of the time.
INSTEAD, let's go the CONSERVATIVE ROUTE: let's build more poluting oil refineries! Let's build more Nuclear Plants with fuel so deadly that there is no definition of a "safe" exposure level to it. We here in the Pacific Northwest, and especially we who live along the Columbia River know a LOT about nuclear waste storage problems! The problem here is so huge that politicians sadly shake their heads when it comes to how much money it'll cost us to make it safer. Hmmm -- so CONSERVATIVE solutions are so backward that it endangers us all!
Right. Let's take BILLIONS UPON BILLIONS UPON BILLIONS of dollars for eletric company fixes as they go about yanking our chains! The REAL solution is to make us not reliant at all upon them! Why not take that gigantic sum of moola and pour it into the citizenry and sumply fix the problem, instead of the CONSERVATIVE band-aid approach? One wonders. >>SIGH<<
AND ... it doesn't help that Bush cut what little funds Clinton allowed to go into resreach for better, more powerful batteries, clean fuel-cells, and high-efficiency solar cells! More money is spent on producing the next toothbrush than what is spent on seeking alternatives to polluting oil companies who hold us hostage!
"Sounds great, now how do you get around and heat your home? Just curious."
The Internet abounds with web sites that are selling these kits. A few that I've heard of puts your hot water on the rooftop and the sun passes through glass or plastic and into the water and heats it up -- even in the dead of winter. Solar power runs electric furnaces and floorboard heaters. I've seen homes that were built with a double wall that allowed the air to heat up on the roof, and using convection properties, it circulated heat throughout the home -- all without help from human industry. In fact, I recall reading it in Omni magazine some years ago, and the floorboard heaters were forced upon the homeowner because it was the code, but in several years, they had never once turned them on year-long.
Plainly speaking, there is no reason whatsoever for us to be buring fossil fuels for energy. When the industrial revolution started in the mid-18th century, yes, it was a wonder to behold. But science has progressed since then and instead of dumping all of our hard-earned tax dollars into the coffers of the oil companies and electric companies, we should be using it to help ourselves to be weaned off of the stuff permanently!
posted on May 20, 2001 12:43:19 PM new jlpiece posted on May 19, 2001 04:15:22 PM
------------------------------------------------------------------------
spaz, the bold face is for those with short attention spans and A.D.D. - both of which run rampant on these boards.
That's a pretty strong claim, asserting that many members here suffer from A.D.D. Please back it up with examples from previous threads where posters have either discussed or mentioned being diagnosed with A.D.D. And I don't mean just one person -- I mean a sufficient number to justify your allegation that A.D.D. runs "rampant on these boards."
If you can't back it up, then we can only assume you made the remark as an insult to the general membership, to imply that our mental faculties are malfunctioning.
posted on May 20, 2001 12:54:18 PM new
The solar panels here on earth will not bring resolve to the issue. The Oil Companies are working to place solar panels outside the earths protective atmosphere to gather the full solar potential. The send the power back to earth via a laser beam then convert it to whatever energy source they need at that moment. The windfall for the Oil Companies is that once they place a certain amount of these panels in outer space. They can then start strategically blocking sun light and charge you for that luxury accordingly
posted on May 20, 2001 01:20:42 PM new
"Exxon Mobil Corporation is engaged in the exploration, production, manufacture, transportation and sale of crude oil, natural gas, and petroleum products, and the manufacture of petrochemicals, packaging films and specialty chemicals. For the three months ended 3/31/01, revenues rose 6% to $57.3 billion. Net income before extraordinary item rose 64% to $4.96 billion. Results reflect higher natural gas realizations and refining margins and lower merger costs."
Almost 5 billion dollars profit in one quarter... Sounds pretty rich to me.
posted on May 20, 2001 02:40:07 PM new"Almost 5 billion dollars profit in one quarter... Sounds pretty rich to me."
That's right, figmente, let's you and I and jlpiece and [/b]KRS[/b] and [/b]NearTheSea[/b] and every other American take the money that we have and pour it into the coffers of these oil companies! Let's ALL go consrevative and just put 1/3 of our income directly into the oil company's bank accounts and have done with it! After all -- who need that money more? You or the Oil companies? Ask any conservative and they'll tell you it's the oil companies that need your money. Sheese! I'd rather give it to a homeless person for shelter than to give more money to oil companies who hold us hostage.
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