posted on May 22, 2001 04:51:25 AM new
conclusion - Wow the Republicans are even a little nastier than the Democrats who will screw me over but at least leave me a little lunch money.
posted on May 22, 2001 07:06:17 AM new
"Thirdly, the explorationists are willing to only move equipment during the winter, which means they'll be on ice roads, and remove the equipment as the ice begins to melt, so that the fragile tundra is protected."
The New York Times reported today that the
chairman of the fund raising dinner tonight is a crook with money laundering experience.
An excerpt from the New York Times today...
"Local news reports from Ohio said a deputy chairman of the gala committee, Bill Gunlock, an Ohio businessman, pleaded no contest to money-laundering charges in 1993 involving $12,000 in campaign donations to the Republican Party of Franklin County, Ohio"
The reports said Mr. Gunlock, the former president of a real-estate appraisal company, was fined $30,000 for illegally funneling money to the party in support of a county auditor who had awarded millions of dollars in contracts to his company. Mr. Gunlock, who agreed to raise at least $100,000 for the presidential dinner on Tuesday, did not return phone calls today for comment.
It appears that the Bush debut as a fund raiser is starting off with a bang!
"Thirdly, the explorationists are willing to only move equipment during the winter, which means they'll be on ice roads, and remove the equipment as the ice begins to melt, so that the fragile tundra is protected."
Guess who?
--Conestoga, Pa., May 18, 2001
It had to be Bush!
His reception at Yale was embarassing.
"Some of the graduates in the School of Forestry and Environmental Studies had bushy clumps of leaves or mock smokestacks atop their caps and stood and turned their backs on Mr. Bush as he began speaking, a gesture symbolizing their belief that he was turning his back on the environment.
He later added, "Everything I know about the spoken word, I learned right here at Yale."
posted on May 22, 2001 07:55:28 AM new
Yes. Catcalls for him.
President
Bush returned to Yale University today
and warmly reached out to an alma mater he
had spent much of his political life pushing
away, but the embrace was not entirely
mutual.
Mr. Bush's presence infuriated many faculty members, more than 200 of whom
signed a petition of protest. One of them, Peter Brooks, who teaches comparative
literature and French, said Mr. Bush had been in office too briefly to be accorded an
honorary degree for his public service.
The sheets of yellow paper that graduates held up included messages like "Execute
Justice, Not People," "Stop Global AIDS" and "Protect Reproductive Rights."
Scores of these students had pasted atop their graduation caps a picture of Mr.
Bush's face, bisected and nullified by a fat black line.
Some of the graduates in the School of Forestry and Environmental Studies had
bushy clumps of leaves or mock smokestacks atop their caps and stood and turned
their backs on Mr. Bush as he began speaking, a gesture symbolizing their belief that
he was turning his back on the environment.
posted on May 22, 2001 08:50:34 AM new
Money and Power...
Interesting bedfellows...
IME, in our society, money is power because we believe it to be valuable. Ironically, one can have power without money but, given humankind's desirous nature, we, including those in power, nearly all desire money.
Those with it know this.....
They have their own agenda in life and buying power is often a part of it....
Throughout history, have not the wealthy class nearly always, at one time or another, been in trouble with the government? Why is that?
Because, in my opinion, their goal in life is success and wealth and they pursue that goal aggressively, not always mindful of their impact on others around them.
Are we jealous of them? Are our leaders envious of them? Who's in control?
IMO, the person who cares the least...
Henceforth, I vote that only clergy be allowed to organize and officiate fund-raising activities....or, better yet, judges...
posted on May 22, 2001 09:03:09 AM new
Borillar- I don't think you have to go back as far as Second Century Germany?????
As for 'Pre-Third Riech' meaning Hitler himself in his rise to power and the creation of the third riech, is that kind of logic that got him there..... the surprising thing is people bought it.
posted on May 22, 2001 09:05:41 AM new
I think the Supra guys only position is behind the wheel of that car
(But I am not speaking for him, NO krs that is NOT my alter ego either LOL!!!)
posted on May 22, 2001 10:12:53 AM newcamachinist"Throughout history, have not the wealthy class nearly always, at one time or another, been in trouble with the government? Why is that?"
Actually, Pat, throughout history the wealthy have been the government! It is only recently, starting with the American Revolution, that common citizens had any real say in their government and that the wealthy were not the ones making all the laws. Of course, that has changed recently.
"Are we jealous of them? Are our leaders envious of them? Who's in control?"
I am not jealous or envious of them, rather, I pity many of them. With acquisition comes responsibility for those acquisitions. The richest people are the most oppressed simply because of the burden of responsibility of what they accumulate. To become "Independently Wealthy" is a much more realistic goal, because that means that you have enough money in the bank to live off of the interest. With enough money coming in and not having to work anymore, you can devote your life to improving yourself. If I ever achieve that state, I'll be headed straight for community college and never leave!
Are our leaders envious of them? Heck, you can't be a leader without being one of them these days!
posted on May 22, 2001 10:27:51 AM newNearTheSea"As for 'Pre-Third Riech' meaning Hitler himself in his rise to power and the creation of the third riech, is that kind of logic that got him there..... the surprising thing is people bought it."
Adolf Hitler was arguably the best demagogue in known history. On the one hand, he was able to raise the German moral by inflating their since of worth (Aryan Idealism) and on the other, grab the tradional scap goat of Europe - the Jews, and blame their woes on them. I have done neither.
Instead, in order to demonstrate my point that I was so amazed as to why anyone who did not fit the Republican mold would actually vote Republican, I showed where the real party lies and where its voters sit. It is two seperate places - reality and fantasy. The points that I mention are verifiable, as much of it has been either in the press at one time, or usually some government agency has brought out the information.
For instance, back in c. 1993, a rabid pro-Republican got the urge to do a little bit of checking up on claims that the "Tax and Spend" Democrats weree just that. He felt that it was just not enough to be saying such a thing (demagoguery), but wanted to have the facts to back up that claim. Then, to his shock and surprize, he learned the truth and was outraged. He released his findings to the media who played on it for quite some time. What amazed me the most was that the Republicans went right on ahead and kept chanting their mantra: "Tax and Spend Democrats" ... "Tax and Spend Democrats" ... "Tax and Spend Democrats". And you know what? People STILL believe that nonsense!
So, just like ADOLF HITLER said: "If you tell a lie loudly and long enough, the people will believe anything!" Such demagoguery the Republican Party goes on about -- you know?
posted on May 22, 2001 10:46:43 AM new
Borillar-
Exactly, and NOT that I am calling you a liar, (AND, I did not say you were saying WHAT Hitler was saying) but every single 'CONCLUSION' you had was this
'serious questions as to your maturity, common sense, and intelligence come into question.
Every single one. Now if you tell that over and over and over again, the effect could be comparible.
I'm sorry, I went back, and you must have made a typo, as it looked to me as 2nd Century Germany.... in the 2nd Century, I'm not so sure there was a Germany
You say you want to keep telling people this, that basically, the Republicans are 'evil' or 'in with Satan' (another post)
Is it going to have the effect you want, on an internet message board?
If you are wanting to get this message out, I hope you belong to some group in real life, that can do this more effectively in RL. Or there are message boards that are purely political ones, such as cnn.com has.
Question: Though you say you would like to have a third party.... but you seem to stand by the Democrat party. So, would you like to see the Rebulican party 'crumble' or not exist, and have only the Democrat party in this country?
posted on May 22, 2001 11:35:54 AM newNearTheSea That's a lot of questions to answer.
"serious questions as to your maturity, common sense, and intelligence come into question."
I expounded upon these ideas because it does raise those very questions to many people. I will admit that the last conclusion about Treason is likely to be just my opinion and we'll never see any of these creeps in office ever needing a lawyer.
My 20th century typo was that i used a oh "o" instead of a zero "0" by mistake. I saw it last night after I posted it, but thought it was not worth editing the post just for that.
"You say you want to keep telling people this, that basically, the Republicans are 'evil' or 'in with Satan' (another post)"
I do not say that Republican VOTERS are evil, merely ignorant. The Republican Party always bets upon the fact that you won't go double-check what they say. Democrats encourage you to go look at the facts for yourself. Which is more honest?
But as far a Evil or In With Satan, you have to realize where the fantasy lies in all of this. NearTheSea, America is not a bunch of corporations. America is made up of PEOPLE, living and breathing, unlike corporations that are not alive. Certainly corporations need to be represented in our system of government and I think that no one argues that point. However, when pollution from corporations kills American citizens it has to be stopped. When the Republican Party rolls back pollution controls FOR ANY REASON, it is to kill people so that the corporations can make more money.
Certainly, it is harsh to say that the Republican Party is out to kill Americans. But to simply ignore the lethal consequences of the legislation rolling back pollution protections as "just good business" is a serious fantasy! And these politicians know what they are doing! They are not naive. They know full well that this will KILL and INJURE Americans, but they do it anyway. It is a CRIMINAL ACT of the most heinous kind: because pollution is an indiscriminate killer. Pollution kills little children whose only crime was playing in a playground where corporations dumped hazardous wastes. Pollution will kill you AND your family, your kids and your loved ones -- it doesn't matter.
Tell me, NearTheSea, how can you go about and tell the survivors of these murders that you vote Republican? And with a clear conscience?
It is chillingly Biblical. Look at how the Republican Party kisses Fundamentalist Christians like politicians used to kiss babies! They do that to get their votes. And they do this, knowing full well that any law that they attempt to make that pleases these fundies will be overturned as being unconstitutional. A no-lose situation.
So they tell their LIES and the voters eat it up. They PRETEND that they are more moral, but are wild and out of control with vice (see Larry Flynt reports). They pass laws that diminish the welfare of the people, they ignore legislation that would protect the people, and they roll-back legislation that is trying to stem the huge tide of industrial poisoning of our population! Now, if that isn't Satanic -- what the hell is?
" Is it going to have the effect you want, on an internet message board?"
You do not realize just how popular this messageboard really is. You would be surprised at how many people stop in at the Round Table here and try to get a "feel" of what the American Pulse is. Just because only a handful of users actually post in here does not make even the tip of the iceberg of the number of lurkers, many of whom would surprise you for being who thy are.
" If you are wanting to get this message out, I hope you belong to some group in real life, that can do this more effectively in RL."
I belong to no political group because there is no major political group that has not been bought out by the corporations.
" Question: Though you say you would like to have a third party.... but you seem to stand by the Democrat party. So, would you like to see the Rebulican party 'crumble' or not exist, and have only the Democrat party in this country?"
Last night, I went over to the DNC web site and told them off! I left them an e-mail letting them know how little Americans thought about them for slipping just enough votes over to the Republican side to pass legislation against us and at the same time, have the rest stand back and rail against the legislation! I refuse to even go onto the RNC web site. Too evil.
The purpose of government is to provide for the safety and the wellbeing of its citizens, to provide for a common defense of its citizens, and to regulate commerce for the benefit of its citizens. You DO NOT substitute "corporations" for "citizens"! What I would like is a return from extremism in politics and to have the government adhere to these basic principles that founded our country.
posted on May 22, 2001 11:51:27 AM new
How would you propose placing a 3rd party in position, to be effective against the well entrenched Dem & Rep parties. Consider that one of the wealthiest individuals in the U.S. tried and failed.
posted on May 22, 2001 11:57:12 AM new"The purpose of government is to provide for the safety and the wellbeing of its citizens, to provide for a common defense of its citizens, and to regulate commerce for the benefit of its citizens."
Yes, that's the way it's supposed to work, but that's long gone. I think people are becoming more aware of just how shady politics are. The election prooved that. I just wonder who you're supposed to vote for if all the players are shady?
posted on May 22, 2001 11:58:07 AM new
3rd party's should begin to push their candidates at the local and state levels first.....not make the huge leap to the presidency.
Most presidents are elected from the ranks of lower government (state and federal) officials...
Alternatives to the Dem's and Rep's should make those positions their focus until enough of them are in positions so the best and brightest (and most saleable) can be put forth to the American public...
posted on May 22, 2001 12:17:03 PM new
That approach might work if they had the financial resources while at the entry level of politics. Since it is now apparent that most politicians are in politics for financial gain. I doubt that it would happen.
posted on May 22, 2001 01:18:26 PM newTell me, NearTheSea, how can you go about and tell the survivors of these murders that you vote Republican? And with a clear conscience? It is chillingly Biblical
The murders are awful, any murder is.
I do not have the statistics of these murders in front of me, and I am guilty.
I know there is pollution, and it is a killer.
Why would you not even go to the evil GOP message board, you said you told off the Dem. one?
I believe I told you before, there is one for all, at cnn.com
There is very thought provoking debates there.
A third party would be hard to get into the Federal level, I do think it would have to start at the state level, it could be done, but it will take time. IMO
posted on May 22, 2001 02:22:46 PM new
NearTheSea,
Looks like this is "one place to be into this."
I was just thinking, if I posted a comment
that someone did not agree with ...(happens
every day) and then someone told me
to take it to CNN, I would be a little confused, to say the least.
posted on May 22, 2001 05:29:59 PM new
No, NearTheSea, I know that you are a nice person and a patriot and that you were not telling me to go elsewhere, although I did appreciate HJW's concern. :0 Thanks Helen!
I think that I know exactly where you're at, NearTheSea (not physical location, of course). You are a patriot and you read the things that KRS and I and others are putting up for discussion on this messageboard and you are concerned. You can see for yourself that things in Washington are not going as you thought that they were, and yet, at the same time, you are not ready to give into what may be the ranting of a foam-at-the-mouth political bigot. It rings true, only you'd like proof. Yes, you'll give into the facts, if the facts are persuasive enough; admit that you have been fooled all along (better be GOOD proof!), just so long as you can believe in the right thing because you want to do the right thing.
I understand.
At the same time, I am not as astute as KRS and others are at running down these facts out that I've mentioned. I run two businesses at the same time and a personal life. I am trying to raise the level of awareness of our situation. That no one in Washington is representing us; that a coup d'etat took place this last year by the Republicans and we no longer have a constitutional government; and to get people to realize that if we all get angry enough we can and should do something about it. However, I just do not have the time to pull up links to everything that someone needs on a platter to make up their minds. I'm sorry. Knowing that there is the possibility that I am possibly correct, you might wish to go look for yourself. Go ahead and prove to us here that every Democratic administration since Eisenhower has out-spent, taxed more, and built bigger government than Republican ones have instead of the other way around. I'm not trying to be mean in how I'm saying this, but I am not here to change anyone's mind, but rather, to rally the troops and to get something done about it.
As far as how to create a viable third party - forget it.
It has been tried throughout the 1990's and at each step of the way, the Republicans and the Democrats have systematically blocked the creation of a third party and/or it's success by locking their position securely by legislation. Now we also can have our votes invalidated and elections overturned. This is both a stupid and dangerous thing, because if you don't give the American people a non-violent means to control the government - this extremist government, then what happened in the French Revolution will happen right here. Remember that the Soviet military had had enough of the communists, defied orders, and sided with the outlawed provisional government of Russia. Since we have had all of our non-violent choices taken away from us, the politicians are counting on our military acting like the Chinese at Tiennemen Square and preventing us from taking matters into our own hands. I fear that it may well come down to it. All I want is at the next couple of elections to have every American voter vote out both the Republicans and the Democrats from every seat and position that they hold in our government right now.
posted on May 22, 2001 06:14:14 PM newHe later added, "Everything I know about the spoken word, I learned right here at Yale."
LOL Helen,
Bet they have visions of plummeting endowments.
I've read in a couple of print sources recently, the last one Newsweek, that the Republican Party moderates, Barbara Gimbel (department store Gimbels) and several others were mentioned, have become increasingly pissed with Bush's campaign deceptions. The moderates are feeling duped, betrayed, some defecting. Although they are pissed about several key issues, energy/environment apparently was the nail in Bush's coffin for most of them. Anna Quindlen of Newsweek further speculated that Bush will quickly shift to presenting himself as a moderate again in order to prepare for re-election in 2004, assuming the public's fuzzy memory and his PA machine will be as deceptively successful as last time. Personally, I still think that he'll be lucky to make it through this term, but it'll be interesting to see how he plays it.
posted on May 22, 2001 06:32:53 PM new
Borillar-thank you. Yes I do read, and with interest what you guys are posting.
Helen, thank you for pointing it out, really, things sometimes come out differently in 'type' vs someone vocally telling them, like if I were talking to Borillar in person. (email gets the same way a lot too)
I know you don't know where I live exactly, but I'm up here in Seattle, and somewhere 'Near the Sea' and my state is an extremly liberal Democrat state.
(um, I would love to debate the election, and the 'coup d'etat' as you called it, but right now, I'm tired )
Antiquary, you mentioned some supporters of Bush who are getting a little disgruntled over what is happening.
This is not the same type of situation,but what I really and HONESTLY would like to know is
(and it is off topic, but what is ON topic?)
what happened to Cher, Striestand, Baldwins, and the many other celebritys who promised? to leave the U.S. (give up there citizenship?) if Bush was in the White House.
I have heard nothing about that, but it was a huge deal at election time.
I know I didn't cover everything you were saying, but accccck, its HOT up here and I'm tired
posted on May 22, 2001 06:38:37 PM new
Antiquary! LoL
Fund raising may be the top priority at Yale after that little ceremony. The students, who consider "B" as a failure probably did not appreciate the humor about his low grades.
The defections may include a Republican senator. It should be on the news shortly.
"Bush will quickly shift to presenting himself as a moderate again in order to prepare for re-election in 2004". That's
laugh out loud hilarious!!! or is it???
posted on May 22, 2001 07:11:45 PM new
They had a big party at the taxpayer paid for vice president's abode last night. Sort of a welcoming party for all the big buck contributors. It wasn't free.
"The Republican National Committee threw a major fundraiser on the taxpayer-supported grounds of the Vice President's Naval
Observatory mansion last night, leading to charges of hypocrisy from Democrats, campaign finance reform groups, and groups like
Common Cause. The event, hosted by Dick and Lynne Cheney and held on official government property, was a kick-off for a week of
major Republican fundraising."
and then someone told me