posted on May 25, 2001 05:21:36 PM new
I'm hoping to get some feedback from some electricians here and computer hardware savvy people. I'm very stressed out about this.
My son's grandfather just bought him his own brand new Dell computer for his room. It arrived on Monday and we had an appointment for the Cable Company to come out on Wednesday to install cable internet access. When the cable installer got here he looked at the back and asked if we had a network card. I said no, and asked if we needed one. He said no, it wasn't neccessary because he could hook the cable modem into the USB port, and that they do that all the time. So he plugged in the cable modem, and connected it to the USB port and started configuring the software. Then he went under the house and looked at our cable and decided he should replace the old cable from the telephone pole behind next door with the new type "digital"(?) cable and run it to the house. After he did that he pulled it into our sons room and right when he touched the co-axial cable to the modem, the back of the CPU caught on fire. My husband blew out the flames (I was freaking out) but of course the computer is fried. The installer was totally freaked out and called his supervisor who wanted to know if he had grounded the cable under the house first, which he said he did. So his boss came out and they looked at what he did, checked to make sure there was no electricity coming out of the cable and that everything the guy did was grounded properly. They said they thought the CPU was defective and wanted us to notify Dell since it was brand new and under warranty. They wanted to take the CPU with them to have their guys look inside it to see if they could see any problems, and when we called Dell they said it was okay, but not to let them "fix" anything or replace anything, only look inside, and that we would have to pack up the whole system and send it back. The next day, two more cable bosses came back with volt meters to check the cable and the other work the guy did. They said there computer techs looked in the cpu but it was burnt to a crisp inside and they couldn't see anything. They still think it's a Dell problem. So they check out the house and make sure it's properly grounded both where the cable came in and the ground outside under the electrical panel. All checks out. However, they checked the wall outlets in my son's room, and said that they are polar reversed even though they are grounded, it is not to code. My understanding is that this happens fairly commonly in houses (ours was built in 1926)and we've lived here since 1995 and my son has his playstation and nintendo, stereos, vcr, and the computer was set up on Monday night and running with no problems. When we called Dell back about returning the system under warranty, they were very nasty and told us it wasn't their problem, that the 3rd party (the cable company) voided their warranty, and most important, that the cable modem SHOULD NEVER HAVE BEEN PLUGGED INTO THE USB PORT! They said the installer SHOULD have used a network card. The cable company is disputing this. They are a big national company who also happens to be a big customer of Dell's themselves, and are telling us that their cable modems are USB compatible devices. Dell basically told us to eat rocks and die. They won't deal with us, and don't want to deal with the cable company. In the meantime, this has caused a big ruckus at the cable company going up to the chain to high up to the "white collars" and evidently they are pursuing this through their account reps. Initially, yesterday, one cable company supervisor said they were submitting it to their insurance carrier, but today a different guy said they are trying to work it out with Dell, but is still implying (strongly) that there was an electrical problem in our house that caused this, ie the reverse polarity. He says (at least this is what I'm understanding)that the modem was producing electricity and that when it was connected to the cpu via the USB cable jack that it was seeking the shortest path to a "ground" and that the cpu was the "ground" and so that's how the current fed into the CPU. The installer plugged the cable modem into a brand new surge strip that we had just purchased when my son set up his system Monday night. I just don't see how this could happen, but I'm wondering if any of you know anything about cable installations and electricity. The computer guys at my husband's work have NEVER heard of a computer catching fire like that, and in addition said they have never heard of hooking up a cable modem to the USB port, but say he should have used a network card. Everybody I've asked that has cable computer access say that there's was connected via a network card, and that when their cable was installed they made them purchase this card to install it.
I'm pretty stressed out about this. It's a top of the line $2k system. We had it for TWO days. I have a call into OUR electrician, but I think he's gone for the long weekend since he hasn't called back. Everybody is basically saying it's not THEIR fault or problem, although the cable company IS trying to deal with Dell on it because they don't want to pay for it. Does anybody have any electrical and computer hardware knowledge that might know what could have caused this? Any answers or ideas much appreciated!!
posted on May 25, 2001 05:30:59 PM new
OMG, KatyD. This sounds like a nightmare. YES...I was required to either buy my own card, or buy a card from the cable company... or they couldn't install the modem. There were no other options, including plugging it into a USB port.
I don't pretend to know why...just that all the experts were adamant about this.
posted on May 25, 2001 05:36:27 PM new
As hard as it might be try and unstress yourself. Since the cable man was the only one that didn't have his hands in his pocket when the computer caught fire I'm pretty sure you'll find they'll end up putting the bill on the computer.
Smile about the fact that THEY hooked it up and not you.
It make take a while, but I don't think you'll be losing any money out of the deal. I'd be polite to the cable company, but firm. You'll probably get more positive attention that way (an unpopular theory, but one I subscribe to.)
posted on May 25, 2001 05:45:36 PM new
Toke, YES! That's what everyone I know who have cable say..that they were required to buy the network card. Even the computer guys at my husband's work scratched their heads over that. The cable company says their modems are USB compatible.
uaru, I'm trying not to be too stressed but after the initial "don't worry, we'll take care of everything" the cable company is back pedaling saying they think it was an "electrical problem" in our house. And yes, they are going to bat for us with Dell, but at the same time saying that they did everything right and it isn't their fault. Thank god I opted to pay extra for the installation instead of the "self-install" they offer. On the other hand, it seems to me the cable company is starting to weasel out of their part in this. The system worked fine until they tried to install the cable, and then it was fried. Dell is saying that since the 3RD PARTY (Cable Company) was doing an install that THEY are responsible. And says our warranty is voided.
KatyD
I'm so stressed over this I'm repeating myself!
[ edited by KatyD on May 25, 2001 05:49 PM ]
posted on May 25, 2001 05:56:20 PM new
Katy,
Call your homeowner's insurance carrier and tell them that you are going to the store to buy a new system. Buy it all, as you don't know what is fried. Don't accept any attempt by them to suggest repairing.
Stop dealing with the cable company. Their guy blew it and most likely they know that perfectly well.
Make your claim according to your carrier's instructions including enclosing all bills for the new system.
Then enjoy while the insurance company tracks down what happened and who they'll get to pay THEM back.
It's no big deal but you've got to exit any and all negotiations with the cable people.
posted on May 25, 2001 05:56:20 PM new
i dont know if this will help or not but when i had my puter hooked up to the cable, the guy asked if i had a warranty. i said yes, and at that point he could not put in the card. he said if he opened up the computer it would void the warranty. i dont think just installing something would void it out. dont you have to actually have to open the back or side to have it void? i took my puter back to the place i bought it from and had them install the card.
What would happen with her H.O. insurance deductible? I don't understand these things, but I know our deductible is $500. If the insurance company found the cable outfit at fault, would she get her deductible back?
There Modems may be USB compatible But the cable modem still requires a network card the net work card is usually included as part of the instalation fee you pay for hook up.
I dont think that the fire its self was caused by plugging in to the USB Port Or by outlet polarity problem.
The big problem here is that any time you are makeing any connects of the type to any computer the computer should not only be turned off but all plugs should be pulled out of all sockets the surge protector should be unpluged and all plugs pulled from the surge protector.
The fact that the computer modem or any other part of the computer was on or pluged in show the installer didnt know his job.
The common ground should not be the cpu since the cable line sould have been being put in to the modem it should have burnt out their modem and the surge never have made it to the computer at all.
There modem may very well be USB compatible but this means that the network card they install can have a USB set up to plugin to by the way all cable hookups require you or your cable installer to open up your computer to install the network card and yes breaking the seal on the CPU to open it voids the warentee in fact right on the seal it warns you if it is broken your warentee is null and void.
SO Frist the computer should have been powerless and unplugged The Computer opened the network card installed.
Then the cable line hooked in to the modem then the modem pluged into the USB port on the network card then the computer should have all rehooked up and pluged in then at that point the modem should have been turned on the computer booted up.
Windows would automatically detect the new hardware and ask for you to install the floppy or cd with the drivers to install after that the computer would reboot it self if all was well the cable modem would sync its self if all was good and you would have been ready to go.
FIRE WAS CAUSED BY CARELESS INSTALLATION
alway unplug you CPU before installing any new hardware.
posted on May 25, 2001 07:00:09 PM new
GEEZE! I've done some funky stuff to computers, but never blew one up!
Ok, here are a few things:
1) ANY time a third party touches the computer, the warrently is void. Sucks, but true.
2) I assume since this is a new computer that your computer HAS USB ports......is that true? If not, did the cable guy have to install one (very easy to mess up....can cause flamage).
3) Did the modem have it's own power cord or did it draw power through the USB? AND (related) was the MODEM fried along with the computer?
This will give me a better idea of exactly what happened.
posted on May 25, 2001 07:09:00 PM new
katyd, I just asked my son (pc builder and repairman), and he said the cable guy messed up and if the pc was ON when he was hooking it up, thats what fried it. In short, he said the dame thing dman said.
posted on May 25, 2001 07:17:51 PM new
I tend to think there is more involved than just the computer being on.
You CAN have the computer ON with USB (that is the whole point, so you can 'hot swap' devices....keyboards, printers, mice, scanners, cameras, ect.)
Also, that had to be a hell of a surge to get through the motherboard protection (they spray the boards with anti-static 'stuff' that is supposed to protect against little surges). Also, it's odd that since you had a surge protector you got a surge at all.
Check out your surge protector....some of the really good (expensive) ones have a thing where they will cover surge damage up to a certian ammount if something is damaged because of a surge.
posted on May 25, 2001 07:22:00 PM new
OPPS!! All the above is true IF your computer has a USB port......IF it doesn't (I don't know why it wouldn't, being that it's a new model, but with Dell who the hell knows).
PUTTING IN a USB port should NOT be done while the computer is on.
posted on May 25, 2001 07:24:07 PM new
krs, we have thought about putting it to our homeowner's insurance, but we would still have to pay the deductible. We have a fairly high deductible, I think it is $1000, so I'm really not wanting to pay 1/2 the cost.
dman and hepburn, I did wonder that the system was turned on while he was installing the modem, but I figured he knew what he was doing.
Lotsfuzz, yes it came with the USB port. The cable guy didn't have to install one. He plugged the modem into the surge strip, the same one that the CPU was plugged into. He used a short grey cable with a USB type connector that he plugged into the USB port, and the other end of the grey cable was plugged into the cable modem. The CPU, monitor, the whole system was running because he had configured the software earlier and then went to pull the cable up through the floor. No the modem itself wasn't fried, just the cpu. They checked the modem and attached the co-axial cable to it and said they were online getting data (or whatever it is) so the modem wasn't fried. But the electricity HAD to have come from the modem to the cpu because the connector to the USB port was burnt too.
I just don't understand why they are trying to say the the reverse polarity of the wall outlet had something to do with it. Well, they are not exactly saying that it caused it, but they saying that the wall outlet was reversed and THAT'S the only thing they can find that isn't as it should be. But I just don't see what that has to do with it.
posted on May 25, 2001 07:30:38 PM new
Son said it can be hooked up to USB or card, doesnt matter. But it does if the pc is ON. He read this whole thing over my shoulder and shook his head and said again that the installer messed up, period. Even hooking up a mouse, the pc has to be off. He was trying to hook up to cable and left it on? Son is shaking his head.
posted on May 25, 2001 07:32:53 PM new
Ok, well sounds like the surge could only come from the wall or the modem.
If it came from the wall then the kid would have blow all the other stuff well before this (unless you've been REALLY REALLY lucky to this point).
So, if it came from the modem the problem lies in either: 1)A defective modem (which is highly unlikely because it worked afterwords, if I understand you correctly), OR 2) the cable.
I would have thought that surge would have fried the modem as well.
Did you have anything else that was USB that you'd used BEFORE this: mouse? keyboard? printer? If NOT, it is possible it was a bad USB port from Dell. I'm guessing with a new system the answer is yes (with a new Dell), if so and it didn't fry then it probably is not a bad port.
posted on May 25, 2001 07:33:56 PM new
The polarity of a plug has nothing to do with it. They're just trying to shuck off the problem so they won't have to pay. While they were inspecting YOUR house with YOUR permission they probably fixed the screwup so that it can't be traced to their work.
Frist you can not hot swap a keyboard on any computer as the one device that a computer will not work with out is a keyboard if you dont plug a keyboard in to your computer it will not boot up at all.
if your keyboard plug is pulled out or comes lose while the computer is booted you will have to do a cold shut down of the computer as the computer will not detect a replugged in keyboard and nothing will work.
in any case the troulbe here wasnt plugging the modem into the USB post that burnt things up it was plugging in the cable line in to a modem while the whole system was powered up.
Not only that A cable mode wont work just pluged into any usb port a cable modem must be pluged into a network card.
What was describe here was like some one plugging a phone line into the sound card and wondering why there modem dont detect a dail tone. http://www.Dman-N-Company.com
posted on May 25, 2001 07:36:23 PM new
Hepburn: Tell the son that we are talking about USB not PS2 or AT.
With PS2 and AT you have to power the system down, with USB you do NOT have to power the system down to plug something in. YES, after the softwear install you have to reboot, but you can plug USB in all day and night with the system ON and not have a problem. For example: Web cams.
posted on May 25, 2001 07:40:07 PM new
Dman is right. The modem goes to an ethernet card. Most new systems have one on the board but it's not just any old USB port.
The system should have been powered off when making configuration changes.
posted on May 25, 2001 07:41:59 PM new
dman: You are correct IF you do not have a keyboard plugged in when you start up you get an error "no keyboard detected" and the system will not load beyond bios. If your keyboard is PS2 and for some reason your keyboard comes unattached when your keyboard is up you MUST power down to replace the plug or you can fry the PS2 port, HOWEVER, if you have a USB keyboard and it becomes disconnected while the system is up all you have to do is plug it back in. That is what USB is for.
posted on May 25, 2001 07:43:56 PM newWhile they were inspecting YOUR house with YOUR permission they probably fixed the screwup so that it can't be traced to their work.
Yes, I was thinking about this possibility. But they were insistent on checking out EVERYTHING to establish what happened and who was at fault. They were very quick at the beginning to say it had to be a defective component thus it was Dell. But when Dell told us to kiss off, they seem to be changing to well, it might be the reverse polarity in your outlet. The also checked the voltage in the wall outlet and they weren't getting any evidence of surges. It came in at 120 volts which is right.
Lotsafuzz, nothing had been connected to the USB port until the cable modem. He did have the computer set up and was using it since Monday night, but offline. The timing of the fire was at the exact instance that he touched the co-axial cable to the modem as he was about to connect it. That's when the fire happened, and it blew out the back of the cpu about 8 inches!! I don't think the cable guy even realized it at first, because my husband yelled, "Dude! It's on fire!" and started blowing on it. (Prolly not a good idea for an electrical fire, eh?)
posted on May 25, 2001 07:47:15 PM new
Ok, then the surge came from cable. Why?
Because: He had the modem set up and plugged in to the USB port and there were no flames. It was at the moment that he plugged the cable into the modem that the system flamed, that points to a charge coming through the cable.
posted on May 25, 2001 07:50:40 PM new
Yes, and this is a big national cable company. The Dell technician who blew us off told us what dman is saying...that the cable modem should NEVER have been plugged into the USB port, but rather the network card. The cable honcho was really mad about that and they got the technicians name and badge number and are going to take it up with his bosses because they are adamant that they use advanced cable modem technology that IS USB compatible.
posted on May 25, 2001 07:54:52 PM new
Lotsafuzz, they checked the cable with a voltage meter and there was no juice in the cable. They checked the modem and measured about 1/2 volt. Supposedly the USB will take up to 5 volts. Anyway this is what they SAY. So someone tell me just where the hell the juice CAME FROM that fried the system. It doesn't make sense. I'm thinking that Ken is right and they are just throwing stuff out there to see what will stick to the wall.
posted on May 25, 2001 07:55:20 PM new
KatyD: I hate to ask this while you are in the middle of a crisis....but do you have pictures of this thing?!?!? Like I said, I've broken many a computer, but have never seen flames (smoke, yes. flames, no).
posted on May 25, 2001 07:58:00 PM new
It is quite possible that the cable guy (when checking the grounding AGAIN) realized that it wasn't grounded and fixed it before calling his boss.
It seems unlikely that the modem (gettings it's voltage from the wall) would be able to do that kind of damage.
