posted on June 3, 2001 08:22:59 PM new
That's an even number which would result in spit decisions on policy matters.
Must be 5 or 7. 6 just won't work.
Boys, girls? I vote for both. It is dreadfully boring with one or the other and each has a unique contribution to make.
Now the problem is, will the group be majority boys or girls? hmmm...how about 4 boys/1 girl. That way she will always get her way anyway....so in theory we don't need the boys at all except for entertainment. Girl rules.
Great idea gk4495!
*that train of thought is really frightening...even to me*
posted on June 3, 2001 09:51:46 PM new
What Sadie said ^ there about eliminating intolerance, and Spaz about child abuse. I would also eliminate poverty.
posted on June 3, 2001 10:04:32 PM new
Not specifically to you Baduizm, but as a general statement, often here have people spoken of their feelings against intolerance, and yet I see more intolerance in the AW Roundtable than anywhere else I visit.
posted on June 3, 2001 10:35:20 PM new
JT, you speak of seeing intolerance here in the RT. By that, do you mean intolerance of differing or opposing views among posters?
FWIW, I find AW to be among the most tolerant boards in the OAI, one that offers reading from a large and diverse group of people - buyers, sellers and those just interested in the discussions. I certainly have learned much from reading here.
I remember the old days here, an environment that thrived on all out flame fests. The moderation team does a pretty good job of keeping most of us civil .
So, I don't really understand what you mean when you speak of intolerance being the norm on these (AW) boards. Please enlighten me
posted on June 3, 2001 11:13:35 PM new
I mean intolerance of other people in respect to political view, religion, class, region, state, education level...etc, etc.
I see post after post dogging somebody, anybody. Putting people down, anybody who is different, present or absent, in anyway from the liberal views of the elect group of central posters. There is an eliteness and an constant "thumbing your nose" attitude. Not just stating of differing opinions but often hateful derogatory insulting statements. (Not generally toward a SPECIFIC person because AW doesn't allow that.)
And yet "political correctness", (such as ideas relating to homosexuality, abortion, race) are upheld with respect.
I think this is why I keep leaving for long periods. I don't know why I keep coming back except that I always have hope that something has changed. It never does.
My gut feeling is that there are many many readers who just don't want to post for that reason. I have no proof of course...except that many who have come, been slammed, never come back at all.
I like AW because I am a fulltime ebay seller and I relate to the profession that we all share. Other boards generally lack any understanding of this lifestyle. Otherwise, I like to go somewhere where I recognize a few names I admit.
It would be delightful if AW had more than ONE Roundtablish area. Then I think people would find comfort by creating different circles with differing social environments. AW will never do that.
T
Adding, I have been in many internet circles. Some are much worse without question. The majority of topical lists/boards, in my experience however, create a social environment of general kindness, courtesy, respect for others present or absent.
IF you can believe this, I was chatting on a board where accusations about a ruling prince were calmly discussed among the group and the subject dropped by mutual decision. It was decided that making personal judgments was unfair and that there was the remote posibility that the leader himself or perhaps residents of his counrty might be harmed by the comments if they were to read them.
I know that's JUST a LITTLE to the left, but in that particular circumstance I agreed. *shoosh...that concept should fly right over some heads here*
I actually LIKE some other boards better(?)...but mention ebay (which is a LARGE portion of my life) and you are "soliciting". (And they don't get my humor like KRS does.)
Cake, eat it too, yes, I want.
[ edited by jt on Jun 3, 2001 11:39 PM ]
posted on June 3, 2001 11:33:39 PM new
JT, your post ^ above reminds me why I wish that I knew more about ubb and html, so I could highlight your points and respond in kind
Lessee, you said:
"I mean intolerance of other people in respect to political view, religion, class, region, state, education level...etc, etc."
AW draws many people to post, some who are more strident in their views/opinions than others. That's one of the qualities that I like about this board: There's discourse from diverse opinions on myriad subjects. One thing I learned long ago was never to debate politics (if they differed from my own) or religion. That not to be construed that others should never voice an opinion in those areas, it's just my personal preference.
I can't say that I have seen posters slammed, JT, in quite some time. I have seen heated discussions, and clever bantering, but no one slammed.
"I see post after post dogging somebody, anybody. Putting people down, anybody who is different, present or absent, in anyway from the liberal views of the elect group of central posters. There is an eliteness and an constant "thumbing your nose" attitude. Not just stating of differing opinions but often hateful derogatory insulting statements. (Not generally toward a SPECIFIC person because AW doesn't allow that.)"
Again, I can't say that I have seen this example, as I don't visit this site everyday. I am not sure who the "elect group elitist liberals" are. I am liberal in many of MY views, but am also conservative on others. I am by no means in a special posting authority, nor do I enjoy any such status.
"And yet "political correctness", (such as ideas relating to homosexuality, abortion, race) are upheld with respect."
Whoa. I don't know that I would characterize individual's ideas on homosexuality, abortion or issues of race as "political correctness." Personally, I don't even like that term, as it was cooked up by folk unwilling to think "out of the box," so to speak. That's not an aside against you, JT. But I disagree with you on that point.
"I think this is why I keep leaving for long periods. I don't know why I keep coming back except that I always have hope that something has changed. It never does."
I'm sorry that you find the RT discouraging. Again, I often find it to be a font of information. I look at other OAI boards and shake my head. Then again, that's just me.
"My gut feeling is that there are many many readers who just don't want to post for that reason. I have no proof of course...except that many who have come, been slammed, never come back at all."
If that's true, then it's too bad. All of us have something to contribute to these discussions. Well, many of us do. And that includes you too, JT
posted on June 3, 2001 11:51:30 PM new
I edited the post above btw.
"Again, I can't say that I have seen this example"
You haven't? Odd.
Now take this thread as a tiny example because it's close to the top.
http://www.auctionwatch.com/mesg/read.html?num=28&thread=93568
I see Republicans, Mississippians, conservatives (by default), one of my elected officials, and my SPECIFIC neighbors 3 houses down ridiculed all in ONE tiny carefree thread. I am mildly offended by that.
However, I said my piece and I don't care to debate it serious cause it will not change a thing here. *Thinking I probably need a chat break and hubby time.*
T
posted on June 4, 2001 12:04:22 AM new
JT, yes, I read that thread. Didn't comment in it, but did read it.
Here's what I saw from you: "Spit." That was your sole contribution.
Dunno, if you think that engages others in discussion. When I read that, I thought you had joined in and were having fun with the group. Color me silly since, I am now assuming, you were upset by the tone. However, your comment in that threat did not articulate, nor intimate that.
I am slightly confused
did not
[ edited by Baduizm on Jun 4, 2001 12:05 AM ]
posted on June 4, 2001 04:27:42 AM new
What one thing would you change if you could?
I would take my magic wand and give everyone under the age of 21 the chance to step outside of themselves to see themselves as others see them.
Why?
To give them the strength and confidence they need to be an adult in the world. To give them the courage to change the things they can control, starting with themselves. Gaining the experience of overcoming obstacles, learning to make a difference.
As usual, you stated my feelings better than I could ever dream to do.
I also have viewed other boards and I have determined that Auctionwatch is so superior that everything else pales in comparison.
Because of the excellent moderation here and the good people who have chosen to join in these discussions, I believe that it is the most outstanding board on the internet.
jt
Tolerance is the core of my being.
The harmless and playful banter to which you addressed your "spit" comment was not intended to harm anyone. That is luducrous.
Helen
Edited to address the second portion of my comment to jt.
posted on June 4, 2001 07:37:49 AM newJT, the Round Table delights in discussing current topics of events, especially ones that affect us all. Politics is a current thron in America's side and it gets talked about a lot. When there is equality or inequality in the justice system, people like to post their views and even discuss the issues. Sometimes, someone likes to bring up religion, just to get the blood rushing from debate. That is what attracts me to the RT. I call'm how I see'm, I admit when I'm wrong and never shout when I'm right when someone else is wrong. Anyone who dislikes the contnt of my posts can respond to them. Of course, there are other people on this board and they might reply to your topic too! Then, there *might* even be a discussion!
"I see Republicans, Mississippians, conservatives (by default), one of my elected officials, and my SPECIFIC neighbors 3 houses down ridiculed all in ONE tiny carefree thread. I am mildly offended by that."
Republicans, Mississippi, conservatives and your elected officials are fair game, just as Democrats, Liberals and other elected officials from all states are fair game.
By voicing our opinions about these topics, we are not attacking you or your neighbors.
posted on June 4, 2001 07:42:25 AM new
I agree with Terri. The most bizarre aspect here is that posters truly THINK they're tolerant of other points of view but their posts demonstrate otherwise.
Sometimes, someone likes to bring up religion, just to get the blood rushing from debate.
Did it ever occur to you that faith is the basis of the very lives of many and is bought up in sincerity and not for the purpose of "getting a rush"?
Color me silly but I still say yes'mam and yes'sir to anyone older than me and if someone mentions their faith as basis for their opinion I trust they are sincere. Yes, I live in the "backward South" where there is still courtesy, God, respect, and a lot more tolerance than we get credit for.
T
Just to let you know that my pond commentary remark was not addressed to your remark about faith and tolerance in the south. I just happened to hit the send button before I read your remark.
Helen
grammatical correction...ed added to address
[ edited by Hjw on Jun 4, 2001 08:17 AM ]
posted on June 4, 2001 08:17:29 AM new
Scratching my head.... Terri, I believe that quote was from a post by Borillar on page 1.
Yes, I do find a lot of intolerance when the subject of religion comes up. My observation about that is quite objective since I don't have any religious beliefs myself but do sometimes like to hear what others believe - it helps me to understand what makes them tick.
Irene
[ edited by stockticker on Jun 4, 2001 08:18 AM ]
posted on June 4, 2001 08:41:57 AM new
I should correct the last remark that I made to read, "atheist, originally from Mississippi but now living in Maryland."
posted on June 4, 2001 08:54:06 AM new
And, jt, as an indication of my tolerance of 'your' religious beliefs,
earlier in this thread I referred to your post about the biblical
verse from the book of revelations as beautiful. I admire your faith.
posted on June 4, 2001 10:34:35 AM new
I wanted to address intolerance in regards to religion.
I don't assume to speak for all "liberals/radicals" here, just for myself.
I feel like somewhere back in my youth (say the '70's), there was a lot of tolerance for different beliefs. Along the way, while I were smoking pot and having a good old tolerant time, the Christian Right found it's voice (The concept of the Moral Majority seemed to start it). Well, I shrugged my liberal shoulders, and figured they should be able to believe what they believe.
Since that time, through political means, it seems to me that the Christian Right has tried to trample on some pretty basic human rights. I don't know exactly when it happened, I only know that I now have a hard time being tolerant when I hear someone is Christian.
Funny thing is I live with a man who reads the bible on a regular basis (we're talking daily here), and is very active in his church. You want to talk heated discussions? But I'm glad he's around because through him, I know that not all Christians are like the ones in the media (killing doctors who perform abortions, internet hit lists, etc.). And he knows he needs this atheist in his life because, well, God must have sent me to him for a reason!
The boards do turn into flame wars sometimes, but an amazing amount of time, people post respectfully and politely.
I think tolerance will only happen one person at a time.
If you think atheists are baby killing animals, the planet will send you someone who will disprove this.
If you think all Christians are nutballs, the planet will send you someone who will disprove this also.
posted on June 4, 2001 11:44:56 AM new
That quote was from page two.
I was only pointing out that since the topic of religion can bring heated discussion, some people like to bring it up as a thread topic in order to promote heated debates. Is the topic of religion and religious intolerance out of place? I think that religion and what organized religion is up to these days is very relevant to discussions. And jt, even if you started off a thread with just a simple prayer, before you know it, the thread would get locked because of heated debate. Therefore, it does not take a concerted effort to cause debate on religion in a thread. Merely to bring it up is sufficient cause for heated debate in of itself.
I don't know where in the South that you live, jt. I lived just outside of Memphis, Tennessee for a year. I can tell you that at the time I was an atheist and the South was mighty intolerant of me when I revealed that fact to someone. You see! It's bad enough in the South to be a different kind of Christian than the local ones are and to be of a different religion is often thought to be worshipping Satan himself! But to be an Atheist? I learned to keep that bit of information to myself in a big hurry, as I felt that the locals would likely try to shoot me for it. I found very few Christians that were "tolerant" when it came to that aspect.
posted on June 4, 2001 11:57:07 AM new
If Christians (and by that I mean evangelists) would display some tolerance of their own, everything would be fine. It's their danged insistance that everyone who disagrees will burn for an eternity in Hell that's the problem. Also, a built-in excuse to bend your ear ad nauseum.
My change: mandatory acid testing for adults. I'm with Grace Slick on this one.
posted on June 4, 2001 12:05:05 PM new
I think most intolerance in the world has its root in fear. To eliminate intolerance, you'd have to eliminate the fear.
posted on June 4, 2001 12:14:45 PM new
Stockticker, you're scaring me! Please don't eliminate me! (I'd hide under the bed, but that's where the monsters are.)
Gee, the "Clinton was a hunk" thread was more fun. Now where's my ladle?
.
