posted on June 6, 2001 05:20:37 PM newActually, they have been able to track the initial case in this country
We think we know the history of the current American epidemic, which involves the story you mention.
We also have imprecise evidence that HIV, perhaps in other mutations, existed in America well before that, but did not spread.
The African epidemic started before the American epidemic, and involves different mutations of HIV.
We now observe with certainty that the virus mutates rapidly and exists concurrenty in many forms.
Thus, the conjecture that HIV has likely always been around, perhaps with epidemics emerging from time to time in prehistoric contexts. It's a near certainty that sexually transmitted diseases were a serious threat to early civilizations, resulting in either death of the entire city from disease or death from military defeat. AIDS was probably among those diseases.
posted on June 6, 2001 05:46:53 PM new
I wasn't worried, because this was the father of my kids, and only until I left and found out about all the women, and this guy was by definition a sexual addict.
I can read, and knew about AIDS in the '80's, but ok my bad, that I thought I was in a marriage situation, and thought men were faithful.
I then went and was tested, and tested again, and again. After him..... forget it.
It scared me sh*tless to tell ya the truth.
Frisco, damn I can't ever seem to spell San Francisco right. Yeah I thought the guy was attendant that flew down from Canada to San Francisco, and hung out there? I dunno..
posted on June 6, 2001 05:52:31 PM new
While I agree that Aids might have been around long before it was discovered in the U.S. roofguy, I'm not sure about it being a retrovirus. Have you read anything about the HIV virus or a relative being found in history? That would be really interesting, wouldn't it?!
I don't know. It seems to me, the smartest place to look for a cure, would be to find other living creatures that DON'T catch viruses or develope cancers.
posted on June 6, 2001 05:58:22 PM new
kraftdinner, what works in them might not work in humans. And it is a retrovirus, as opposed to a filovirus such as Marburg (which survives dormant in the environment for quite a while)
posted on June 6, 2001 06:46:34 PM new
There's a great book called "And the Band Played On," about the beginning research into discovering the AIDS virus. That's where the politics of finding a cure for something that only those "godless queers" got started.
I don't remember the exact facts (read it a long time ago), but I vaguely remember that more money was spent by our govt finding out what caused Legionnaires (sp?) in a couple of months than was spent the first couple of years for AIDS research.
I believe krs is correct that patient zero was a male flight attendent, but my memory says he had a lot of activity in SF also.
Another interesting thing noted in the book was that one of the researchers found out about a soldier who'd died around 1956 from "wasting away." It remained undiagnosed until the AIDS researcher found that some blood or tissue from the dead man was still available. That soldier had died from AIDS.
As to how it started, I believe in the conspiracy theory, but I've always been comfortable being paranoid.
posted on June 6, 2001 08:43:10 PM new
If there were a realistic chance of finding either a cure or an effective vaccine, the pursuit of such would have near complete support.
posted on June 6, 2001 09:38:39 PM new
Thank-you snowy! My mistake. I meant to say which ever type of virus that has the ability to go dormant for years, hundreds of years......I thought this is what you meant roofguy.
That figures krs! So they've had BILLIONS of years to come up with a cure....it's worse than I thought.....
posted on June 6, 2001 10:28:16 PM new
Roofguy said: Political correctness is killing people. It's killing mostly gay white men, but plenty of black women too.
and:
You can be part of the solution, or part of the problem.
I don't use the term "political correctness," as I believe it to be a proviso thought up by conservatives to use whenever they disagree with common sense.
Yes white gay men have been victims of the disease. So are black gay men, straight white and black men and women, children, hemophiliacs, those infected from blood transfusions, etc.
But to insinuate, no matter how innocently, that certain racial groups may be pre-disposed to this plague - because of their racial, socio-economic class status - rubs me the wrong way. I am sick of people inferring that perhaps certain folks deserve to contract AIDS. It has nothing to do with "political correctness."
No, I have no magic panacea to this complicated and devastating health crisis. The issues are complicated and interconnected, which makes it definitively harder to offer solutions other than demanding increased funding for medical research to develop a vaccine.
I do a lot of volunteer work in my community, roof guy, from working with AIDS or HIV patients, to tutoring homeless public school children (one reason why I keep such weird hours). How are you making a difference, roofguy?
posted on June 6, 2001 10:57:12 PM new
Kraft, Neanderthal didn't write except with pictographic images on the walls of their caves, so you shouldn't have needed to ask that question. Since you did, they threw the persons of the Neanderthals to the fire without benefit of stake and only much later discovered that the product was enjoyable fare. With that and the need for a name for the food Cro Magnon discovered the benefit of the steak and used it in cooking their filets from then on thru time.
We know it know as.......
posted on June 7, 2001 08:08:54 AM newI am sick of people inferring that perhaps certain folks deserve to contract AIDS.
Baduizm, I haven't read that here.
I read that a very small number of people assert that. I request that until someone actually says that, that you not accuse. That accusation serves exactly the same role that an accusation of "racist" serves when applied to anyone who attempts an intellectual analysis of racial issues.
In other words, its intent is usually to stigmatize, to silence an undesired voice. I'll drop "political correctness" as a summary for such intent. Perhaps it is in a similar category.
[ edited by roofguy on Jun 7, 2001 08:09 AM ]
posted on June 7, 2001 08:26:12 AM newBut to insinuate, no matter how innocently, that certain racial groups may be pre-disposed to this plague
Ok. Let's stop there in the middle of your sentence.
A fact: American blacks are vastly more likely to be victims of HIV than are American Asians.
That fact might rub some the wrong way, but it is a fact. A huge part of the problem we face when analyzing AIDS is that we wish some facts were not true.
- because of their racial, socio-economic class status - rubs me the wrong way.
No one said that, but let's examine what is rubbing you the wrong way.
Accepting the fact above, let's try some theoretical claims which complete your thought:
"American blacks are vastly more likely to be victims of AIDS because their skin is black."
Nope, this makes no sense. In fact, it's silly enough that I don't think anyone at all belives it.
We'll try again.
"American blacks are vastly more likely to be victims of AIDS because they are poor."
Well, people do believe that. I don't, but people do. Would that rub you the wrong way?
So if you'd like, Baduizm, here's an opportunity. You fill in the "why" part in a way you find acceptable.
"American blacks are vastly more likely to be victims of AIDS because....."
[ edited by roofguy on Jun 7, 2001 08:27 AM ]
