posted on June 9, 2001 11:49:59 PM new
Try to stay on that topic...LOL.
An interesting theological question. One wonders if it would be considered blasphemous for those who profess to be believers to play games with religion on internet chatboards. To sort of use it for one's own personal ends. Being agnostic, I am merely curious about it.
Antiquary, I started this thread, as not to interupt that thread, and because you have asked an interesting question.
I suppose that it depends on what "one's own personal ends" would be. If it were something against other Biblical teaching I would say yes. On the other hand if it were on sound Biblical principle I would say the phrase "one's own personal ends" isn't applicable.
Christ said, (His last words),
"Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world."
This is the Great Commision and is the basis for evangelical Christianity.
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
John 3:16
This is the of promise and requirement for eternal life.
Jesus was asked: "Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?'' And He said to him, "YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND.' "This is the great and foremost commandment."The second is like it, "YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.'
So based on that, if one truely loves others, and one believes that some will not have eternal life, should one use every available means to reach as many as possible?
What is the readership of AW? I don't mean just posters but readers?
So, will I push every available button to save even one person (including readers/non-posters) from an eternity of hell? YOU BETCHA'!
posted on June 9, 2001 11:56:17 PM new
BTW, if this thread bugs anyone and you are not interested, don't feel obligated to join in...but everyone is WELCOME!
As long as this thread is open, I don't need yours. Make it last.
T
posted on June 10, 2001 12:00:33 AM new
As you know, that begs the question, Terri, though it was not directed to you specifically. I wish you good luck with your mission, though personally through your approach I think you do your cause far more harm than good.
posted on June 10, 2001 12:07:56 AM new
I am imperfect as you can see.
Besides what I said above, I am simply interested in the topic.
Thank you for your kind comment. I will deeply consider your constructive criticism and you are more than welcome to participate in future discussion here if you like. It is an attempt to take a somewhat different approach with less conflict. Conflict is not good.
T
posted on June 10, 2001 12:27:48 AM new
Some of the most wonderful people I have known have had beliefs I don't fully understand. The only way I can describe it is their light shines very bright. I've changed a lot with age. At one time I thought the Amish were silly people, I have a lot of respect for them now. My wife teaches Sunday school, but I've always got something else to do on Sundays, she just smiles and goes on without me, she doesn't preach to me, but I know she wants me to go. I wish I could behave like some of these people that have a light that shines so very bright, I want to, but I don't have their strength.
There are exceptions to every rule, but for the most part I admire people with religious convictions, they have more strength than I. I wish I could be C.S. Lewis and explain things the way he could but I can't.
posted on June 10, 2001 12:45:42 AM new
I have to go now but I hope you don't leave. What you said is very touching. I know what you mean about "shine" and I hunger for that too.
I also think there is beauty in the uniqueness of every religion. I like to learn what others believe, and (when applicable) I always try to remember that though there may be major differences in theology, we still worship the same glorious God.
T
Night uaru. I am going to think about what you said about strength.
[ edited by jt on Jun 10, 2001 12:51 AM ]
I don't understand the comment by Antiquary. Maybe he will clarify the statement today.
The thread had assumed a sort of levity before I made my comment and I
tried to relate my comment to the drift of the conversation. That is
all.
I believe that the comment by Antiquary was directed to me
rather than you. It was not my intention to "play games with religion." In my defence, it has been my experience that my friends with a well grounded belief in any religion, have the ability to see humor in an exaggerated interpretation such as the one that I presented about the prophecy of Uaru
Of course it was not my intent to be irreverant because there was nothing reverent going on. This thread began with levity and it continued with levity from the start, almost to the finish.
I have great respect for the moral and ethical teachings of any religion. And I will read this thread with interest.
posted on June 10, 2001 07:43:35 AM new
Good morning Helen.
If all visitors will please stand. Ummm..we seem to have none.
Now if you will turn in your second browser window to:
http://home.att.net/~icu8/midis/christian/nameonhigh.htm
(Just a little Southen Baptist humor. )
I didn't think it was directed at you Helen. I thought it was a general inquiry. I don't perceive you to be "playing games". As you said yourself, you have never been a religious person. I see you as "searching" and whether that searching is for peace in your soul or purely to educate yourself in the religious beliefs of others, either is a valid reason. I investigate Hinduism and Islam and others. I don't think you owe any explaination as to your reason.
urau, thoughts on strength:
For he who is least among you all--he is the greatest. Luke 9:48
I tell you the truth, anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it." Mark 10:15
But many who are first will be last, and many who are last will be first. Matthew 19:30
posted on June 10, 2001 08:12:25 AM new
No peace search going on here, just an interest in the topic. Peace to me is a far fetched idea and furthermore, I question the wisdom of such a state.
I will read, but I cannot contribute anything to this discussion because my knowledge about the subject of religion is very limited and my remarks might be misunderstood as being irreverant or as Antiquary mentioned, blasphemous.
I wish you good luck with this peaceful theological discussion.
posted on June 10, 2001 09:29:18 AM new
Methink that Religious belief is a light in itself: one does not need to be "guided" toward the light; rather, the light attracts a person. Also, preaching the belief in G-d is fine; narrowing it down to becoming a Christian or any other branch, is not fine.
In a religious thread one should remain objective and be concerned about others..."Love your neighbour", and don't try to influence him/her to go your way.
Just my personal opinion...not combative...Have a nice Sunday.
posted on June 10, 2001 09:29:56 AM new
I think what Antiquary was saying was that he finds it interesting that some people use religion to make their points while not adhering to the rest of God's teachings. I didn't think he was talking to anyone specifically, but was just stating a comment.
posted on June 10, 2001 09:50:15 AM new
"preaching the belief in G-d is fine"-shosh
What in the hell is a G-d? I thought this was a discusion about the belief in God, and religion, and just a "peaceful theological discussion" in general. What do the G-d's have to do with that? Isn't that a gang in Chicago, or something? Lets bring this discusion back on topic with the discussion of God and the like, and stay away from the discussion of belief in Chicago gangbangers. Please feel free to start another thread if you need to discuss this idea further.
posted on June 10, 2001 09:56:42 AM new
Yeah, that "G-d" stuff ...... I mean for cryinoutloud, God isa word/name! Couldn't God mean anything that anybody wanted it to mean? Say if someone worships the moon, that would be their God, right?
posted on June 10, 2001 10:04:24 AM new
Hi Shoshanah, this is not directed at you, or attacking you however, I have seen on different message boards and even someone writing..... they type or write G-d.
Just like that, instead of God.
I always wondered why.
A lot of us always slip or do it on purpose, and actually say
Oh my God! or Godd*mmit or whatever. Even athiests.
I think this is a good topic Teri, though I don't think people are 'religous' , although a lot of people say "I am a religious person", or "They are religious XXX". I used to think that way, I now believe they have 'faith' is that right? Or they don't and do use 'religion' as their whatever....
I have to go make more coffee and other stuff, but see what this thread brings up
posted on June 10, 2001 10:10:20 AM new
Morning Terri - My experience with religion has been this: Born and baptised Catholic. Attended Catholic school and church regularly.
I then attended a Baptist church for a couple of years and around the age of 13 made my own choice to be baptised. Attended regularly and when I met my boyfriend (now husband), I encouraged him to attend with me. He did. From the moment he walked into their doors, they tried to 'save his soul'. The constant pressure and preaching (to accept Christ) put him off and before long, he refused to continue going. Long story short, he wouldn't even get married in my church. We ended up marrying in another church, as a compromise.
When our first son was born, and the preacher of that church found out, he and two other church members came to our home (surprise visit) and proceeded to tell my husband and I what terrible parents we were to our son because we weren't raising him to know Christ. My husband asked them to leave. I have never set foot in a church since that day.
My point in sharing this personal experience? Is that I found my way to Christ, without any pressure/preaching. I sought out another faith that I felt more comfortable with. I made a choice for myself. It always sadded me that my husband became so turned off by the actions of church leaders that he would never consider going again.
So I guess what I'm trying to say is that sometimes when some people are trying to do what they think is the right thing to do, it can be turning people away from God/Christ rather than getting the results they'd hoped for.
I believe, like uaru said, that some people have a special 'light' and when another person wants what they have (if they ever do), they will seek it out on their own.
Terri - I hope you know I respect your beliefs about your religion, and hope that by posting my personal experience and opinions, it in no-way offends you.
posted on June 10, 2001 10:27:16 AM new
Show me a "christian" or any other faith that practices Monday through Saturday what they preach about on Sunday and I might "see the light". Until then, I pass. What I think about my God and what others think about Him is up to them. This forum is many religions. Christians are just a word, like Muslim, Jewish, Mormon, Wiccan, Hinduism, etc.
posted on June 10, 2001 10:31:08 AM new
BTW, I dont know what Antiquary meant, and wont presume to speak for him. I didnt read what he said in any other way than just stating an opinion, but towards what, I have no idea.
If this is a theological discussion, why doesnt someone from another faith start a thread and quote their scripture to make Terri see THEIR "light"?
posted on June 10, 2001 10:40:36 AM new
Hi Hepburn - We did just recently have a thread that (pretty much) was devoted to Mormons and their teachings. Or at least, that's the direction the thread took.
posted on June 10, 2001 10:44:26 AM new
After attending a Baptist church for several years in my early 20's, and getting dirty looks at the grocery store because I was wearing Levi's or shorts and not a skirt (and many other such instances), I've become open to hear and/or learn about other faiths. There's one that I'm particularly interested in, but I think I'd have to open up a new thread to discuss it.
jt - "That out of the way, anything is fair game".
Hmmm.......then maybe its okay to bring it up in this thread....jt?
[ edited by bobbi355 on Jun 10, 2001 10:47 AM ]
posted on June 10, 2001 10:46:10 AM new
Hi LindaK. Yes, I remember that thread. Very informative. I would like to hear more about the Jewish faith. Or Muslim. Wiccan. Name one. I dont think it will be off topic, since this is a theological discussion and not just "christian".
posted on June 10, 2001 10:52:39 AM new
Well Hep, I've been curious about what Wicca is all about. All I've really ever "heard" is that it's something to do with worshipping satan - and I'm not into that. I'm wondering if I've just heard one-sided info. about that.
posted on June 10, 2001 10:52:53 AM new
Boy, there ae so many things I want to address.
G-d: I have seen this too and I have asked about it. Some people use it as a form of respect, not writing the name. I think it goes back to Genesis where YHWH was the name for God. Some claim it was never pronounced and others claim that it was pronounced "Yahweh". It literally means "to be" or "self existant one". Those who claim it was not pronounced believe that it was a very literal interpretation of "Thous shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain." I love to look at the different names for God and Christ.
I don't think people are 'religous' , although a lot of people say "I am a religious person", or "They are religious XXX". I used to think that way, I now believe they have 'faith' is that right? Or they don't and do use 'religion' as their whatever....
Great point. I use the word because people understand it. It has several meanings, in brief: 1. Belief in a power accepted as creator 2. Practice of a belief related ACTIVITY. I think there should be a lot more faith and a lot less religion. Count me out on #2. As far as number 1, even the demons acknowledge God and I don't think they would be considered "religious" in the context that the word is generally used. Faith is a much better choice...but it you say "I am a faithful person." people would have no idea what you mean.
posted on June 10, 2001 11:00:25 AM new
I agree with everything you said Shosh. I think a person's belief should be an individual one. I do believe that religious groups that try to sway a person to believe what they deem is right, is not what God had in mind.
posted on June 10, 2001 11:02:38 AM new
sorry for ^^^, I'm a slow typist.
Anyway, I have seen a gentleman in the RT speak of Wicca, but I don't want to mention who, so as not to make him feel uncomfortable is he isn't willing to share his beliefs.
posted on June 10, 2001 11:07:12 AM new
Hi, hepburn... Happy Sunday. Beautiful up here today!
jt... Not spelling out the entire word is a form of respect, and is always observed in Judaism. There are so many reason for this respect that it would take a lifetime to explain.
I personally do not want to discuss any specific religion (except answering this very basic ? about the spelling)... Any info about Judaism, for all who are curious, can be found by doing a "search" for Judaism....
posted on June 10, 2001 11:09:54 AM new
Linda, I am sorry to hear about your experience. It isn't that uncommon. I have to look at it several ways. One, some people don't like to face the difficulty of self examination when the gospel is heard and religion/faith is a touchy feely thing that is uncomfortable to them. Also some churches/people can be judgmental and condeming and pushy. However the God I know gave people a CHOICE...take it or leave it. That doesn't mean that there are not people out there who have never had the opportunity to understand what it means to be a Christian. My theory is help people to understand salvation and if they reject it that is their GOD GIVEN OPTION. I think if you ask people who are not Christians, who know me personally they will agree that "No"/maybe/my own way is readily accepted from me. I hold the "ok, if you change your mind you know where I am if you need me" position.
One thing about churches though, if they are TOTALLY without an evangelical approach, they end up with lots of people who are going to church but have no concept of salvation. I know this is true because I know two very well. One admits he has been in church all his life and doesn't know HOW to be saved. The other is in a very liberal church, is in a leadership position in the children's department as says "I don't need a savior because I am "good". It is a difficult thing.
Ultimately I believe that church is a valuable thing, but it is not a requirement for salvation and faith. In the Bible we are encouraged to "not cease meeting together" but where or how is not specified AT ALL.
Personally, I would prefer on the grass eating fish with Jesus and the other hippies...but I do go to church often enough for lack of a time machine.
Reading.
T
~spelling that changed the whole meaning..oops
[ edited by jt on Jun 10, 2001 11:10 AM ]
posted on June 10, 2001 11:34:22 AM newHmmm.......then maybe its okay to bring it up in this thread....jt?
Yes, I just hope we can keep the thread open, talk about "I believes" and not "you are wrongs", and be considerate toward one another please.
James is a literal STOREHOUSE of valuable information. I just want to tuck him in my pocketbook and take him around with me forever. We don't hold the same ultimate belief but we have gained much from eachother...I no doubt a lot more than he.
BTW Shos, James doesn't do G-d but God. I hope he shows up because he has much to add.
Yoo-who...
Where Judiasm is the origin of Christianity and Christ was Jewish, Wiccan is nowhere near it. Other than AW rules and hoping the thread doesn't get locked, I have no place to say what can and can not be discussed. If we later see that we need to sort by denomination in order to keep threads open, I guess we can...I really hope that isn't required.
try to sway a person to believe what they deem is right, is not what God had in mind. I interpret the Great Commission literally. This is what oft leads people to misunderstand Christainity as "supremacy". It isn't.
I can not keep up with you people...LOL. Go ahead without me.
T
