posted on June 10, 2001 03:52:40 PM new
That's hard to answer, Bobbi355, only because different pagans will believe different things. Personally, I believe that there are natural energies in the earth and inherent in ourselves that we can direct. I think of it as a prayer in action.
If you've heard of Reiki (which is not a religious belief, but a Japanese healing method), it focuses on Universal Energy, which may come from God or be a natural force, depending to whom you speak. I personally relate strongly to Reiki tapping into a universal energy source, related to the chi energy in our own bodies.
Some wiccans believe that the goddess, who is present in all things, including ourselves, lends the power for creating spells...
posted on June 10, 2001 03:56:58 PM new
Only thing that makes me balk is the "Goddess" thing. Its butting heads with what is already in my head, planted since a kid. So the concept of what wiccan believe or follow is what I also feel. Except that part.
posted on June 10, 2001 04:00:33 PM new
Lisa - You mentioned Reiki. I had done a search on that awhile back and was very interested in it, just didn't have the $$ to go to the classes. I'm reading that site that krs put up. Pretty interesting. Even has a "state by state" listing.
posted on June 10, 2001 04:00:42 PM new
Hi, Linda K...
I guess we look at it differently. I don't see myself as making a choice to become an atheist. An atheist is one who does not believe in a god. I made no choice not to believe.
I just never could find a rational way to believe in a supernatural being. I tried, too. It's a lovely dream. Everything I have seen and experienced in my life has proven (to me, at least) that there could be no such divine and omniscient entity.
It would be very comforting to believe in life after death, for instance. My reason just won't let me do it. I'm not one who can believe anything just because I would like to, unfortunately.
I envy those who can find their way to such belief...I'm sure it simplifies everything. I just can't. Reason keeps getting in the way.
posted on June 10, 2001 04:08:39 PM new
I'm Level 2 Reiki, Bobbi. I'd like to go Level 3, but the money is a hang-up for me, too.
Check around, though. Especially on Level 1 Reiki, many adult classes/summer classes will have those at a reasonable price, and some teachers will attune for free or will operate on donations of what you can afford. Especially for Level 1, you can probably get into it for no fee or a nominal fee.
Lisa
posted on June 10, 2001 04:12:31 PM new
This is hard to say, but I will try. I am leaning more to the Buddhist belief, but want to take my God with me. My God is the Christian God, but I dont want to take Christianity. Only the God of it. Maybe its falls into the catefory of "birds of a feather" syndrome. The christians I have known were not very "christian" to my way of thinking. Turn the other cheek and all that rot. I dont turn mine very well. The "separation" of them, Baptists, Lutherans, etc. The fighting of who is right. The degrading of members and non members if they "dont tow the line" according to THEIR perception of what is in the Bible. The thumping of said Bible and the bellering of "repent or be doomed" stuff. The debates of a vengeful God versus a kind and gentle God. Christians can take alot of the "pulling away", just by their own actions in the NAME of Christianity. I dont like being preached to, or "saved" from the fires of hell. The tunnel vision of Christians, and the use of that title to reap rewards or "righteousness" towards their own end. Its a turn off.
So, I want to take my God, and put him in somewhere with Buddhist beliefs and teachings. Is that confusing or what? Try being in my head and you will get a rush.
posted on June 10, 2001 04:23:27 PM new
Thanks toke - I appreciate you answering. I guess for me, I've always believed an atheist denies the existance of any God, where as an agnostic doesn't believe because there is no way to 'prove' there is a God. I'm probably way off, and that's why I find it interesting to ask. Thanks again.
I've always wondered if those who tend to believe (in any religion) do so because as children they were indoctrinated this way vs those who had no religious education when young (as in my husband's case). He feels he's agnostic. But he does share that he feels 'something or someone' had to have created our universe.
[ edited by Linda_K on Jun 10, 2001 04:27 PM ]
posted on June 10, 2001 04:24:02 PM new
Hepburn, I have a lot of the same feelings. Check out that book I mentioned before 'Awakening to the Sacred'. It talks about keeping what is comfortable to you and forging a religious practice that is all your own. It's mostly from a Buddhist viewpoint, but it talks about including what feels right to you.
Personally, I feel that there are many paths to the same deity. My way (or lack thereof) is no better or worse than anyone elses.
Lisa
posted on June 10, 2001 04:41:57 PM new
LOL, Linda K...
I don't think you're way off, at all. Many people have said to me...oh NO, you can't be an atheist...you must be an agnostic! Somehow, atheism horrifies them, whereas agnosticism doesn't. As long as you can say, well, there might be a god but I just can't prove it...that's okay.
I've always thought, to say I was an agnostic would be the easy way out...but not honest, for me. I just don't see any possibility at all, that there's a god. So I can't qualify as an agnostic.
Of course, I could be wrong...
edited to say: BTW, I had a good deal of religious study, as a child. Presbyterian.
[ edited by toke on Jun 10, 2001 04:44 PM ]
posted on June 10, 2001 04:56:00 PM new
Kraftdinner
Are you saying that you think some of us need to be saved
It is not up to me to judge individual hearts. Here are the requirements for salvation. Each should read it and determine if he/she has salvation.
http://www.odsgc.net/~cornerst/salvatio.htm
hepburn
Do you believe in ALL the Bible?
YES.
Do you try to follow ALL of (the teachings)of OT and NT? If not, why not.
This is not a simple yes or no question if one does not understand the NT.
Several things. The Bible is not one book but many. Some are law, some are poetry, some are history, some revelation. You can't pick one verse and say "why don't you do this?" because everything has a context.
In addition, the fulfillment of the prophecy of the Messiah removed the need for certian practices, sacrifice for example. The ultimate scarifice has already been made.
This is a difficult question to answer and understanding really comes though reading the gospels.
It's like this, first was God in fellowship with man, then sin entered the world and separated man from God. Then there was the law which showed us that we were sinners, then there was Christ that restored us in fellowship with God. OT law served a function, serves a function as a moral code, but the teachings of Christ supercede individual practices such as sacrifice.
Christ said, "I come to fulfill the law not to abolish it." Fulfillment "altered" the need for certian things but it did not abolish it.
For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall, by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, so that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace, and might reconcile them both in one body to God through the cross, by it having put to death the enmity.
Eph 2 (Read entire chapter to undersand.)
A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another.
John 3:34 This new commandment supercedes any OT commands that it conflicts.
Also...remember that the entire OT is not at all God dictated "Law". (The 10 Commandments are.) Hygine practices of the day, etc, are not.
Yow was this a hard question! The BEST way to find the answer is to read the NT. I encourage everyone to stop listening to me at all and to read the NT. My words are pale and incomplete in comparison.
[ edited by jt on Jun 10, 2001 05:34 PM ]
posted on June 10, 2001 05:40:32 PM newbut I dont want to take Christianity. Only the God of it.
hepburn, You don't have to take the entire history of Christianity. You don't have to take other Christian's and their faults and their practices. But if you take only the Savior, you will have eternal life in fellowship with the awesome and holy living God of your creation.
The rest it optional apart from love that will be manifest in you through Christ.
T
One other thing. It is not unreasonable if you believe in God at ALL, to pray, "Show me Your truth, O God." and let Him do the rest.
And if you don't believe in God at ALL, try "IF you exist, God, please give me faith."
[ edited by jt on Jun 10, 2001 05:50 PM ]
posted on June 10, 2001 06:00:35 PM new
Scripture: Romans 10
if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that <*14> God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.
For the Scripture says, WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED.'' For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord (Christ Jesus) is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him;
for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED.'' How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? How will they believe in Him whom they have not
heard? And how will they hear without a preacher?
T
posted on June 10, 2001 06:18:37 PM new
You lost me terri. I stopped reading after the second or third sentence and skimmed the rest. Ok, now that you partially answered to the best of your ability, my next question is if it says "and eye for an eye", why are you against the death penalty? I find that SOME parts of the Bible are followed, and SOME parts are not. Twists and turns to what "tickles your own ear". With that in mind, why is it that its ok to follow SOME but not ALL? Depends on who is reading it, following it, obeying it, is it not? And that is just a sample.
posted on June 10, 2001 06:36:40 PM new
1. You have heard that it was said, "AN EYE FOR AN EYE, AND A TOOTH FOR A TOOTH.'
"But I say to you, do not resist an evil person; but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also.
Matthew 5: 38-39 (Words of Christ.)
2. I want every person to receive salvation and killing an unsaved person removes that option.
3. This is My commandment, that you love one another, just as I have loved you. John 15:12
But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Romans 5:8
4. An adultress was brought before Jesus. Law dictated that she be stoned to death. Jesus was asked what should be done. He replied:
"He who is without sin among you, let him be the first to throw a stone at her."
I am not without sin and therefore am unqualified to throw stones.
T
posted on June 10, 2001 06:41:47 PM new
Umhm. Next question:
In the OT, why is it that God "hardened his heart" (pharoah). If love is wanted, why harden his heart? Wasnt God involved in many wars? Did he not lend His might to fight those wars? Was that not killing other human beings? Did not he destroy villages and towns with fire and lightening? I am honestly wondering about that. Then comes the NT and it is all love and teachings.
Like I said, I am not good at turning a cheek. Someone smacks me, I smack 'em back. And please, my eyes glaze over when you go into scriptures. Just answer from your own head and thought, alright? I dont want quotes. I want YOUR opinion.
posted on June 10, 2001 06:47:11 PM new
hepburn, I do want to answer your questions and I am not running off to avoid them. I have however spent hours here in the last 24 and need to do family time. I hope you understand.
Also, remember that I don't have all the answers and your questions are rather broad. A specific I can generally do but gosh to explain my understanding of ever action of God in the OT in one sweep...Sheesh! Give me a break please!
I will be back. I need to do family and ebay and I have to get my daughter to camp in the morning.
Keep searching! Reading your Bible will help. Terri
T
posted on June 10, 2001 06:49:02 PM new
This forum isnt going anywhere. Go do what you have to do. I dont have a Bible, nor intend reading one even if I did. Im too busy straddling
posted on June 10, 2001 06:59:00 PM new
Bible: http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?
If you don't know where to start, start with John...if you wish.
Broad sweeping answer:
God is creator, holy, just, almighty, and He is qualified to do whatever He wants. He provided us an alternative out of His love and compassion.
Bye.
T
edited to add "if you wish".
[ edited by jt on Jun 10, 2001 07:01 PM ]
posted on June 10, 2001 07:19:51 PM new
I have read much of the bible over the years.
I think of those men and women that wrote it like reporters. I believe little if anything reporters of today say, they embelish to get the reader interested. Bible is the same. Embellished stories.
Perhaps someone can tell me why God picks sides in a football game? I never did see that in the bible yet all the religious players think God is on their side.
posted on June 10, 2001 08:02:48 PM new
YES rawbunzel! Word of mouth. Who is to say whomever wrote it doctored it up a bit to make it tickle THEIR ear? Also, if He can do what He wants, and you go along with all He says, why can you pick and choose what YOU want to use for your own convenience? Im not picking on you, but do you get where Im coming from? Just because you quote scriptures doesnt mean you are right. It doenst mean that the Bible is right. Its all word of mouth. And when there is a war, BOTH sides pray. Why does one win over the other and which side is more "holy" or "favored" by Him and why? You cant answer, Terri, because you are not God. You just blindly follow and trust in what was written by mortal man, with mortal failings and impurities.
posted on June 10, 2001 08:21:27 PM new
amen to that Hep. If both teams have true believers and both teams pray - then who wins?? The ones who believe MOST? I just never have understood and probably never will.
Bobbi. Us "decent posters" have to make sure before hitting the SUBMIT button, lol.