posted on December 19, 2000 04:41:16 PM new
This happened yesterday, when many sellers who use paypal had their accounts restricted for no reason whatsoever. I have sent them a letter, to appeals@paypal, and will now open my email to responses from AW customers. I will not idly sit by and wait for their phone to answer. Below is the email I sent them.
This is totally outrageous. You give nothing but a form email with no explanation at all. You are now holding up Christmas shipments to many of my customers who trust you with their money much the same as I trust you with mine.
Enough small talk. I have heard far too many complaints from other users to tolerate this for any length of time.
You will answer this email within 24 hours with a detailed explanation of why this has happened or:
I will proceed with legal action that may or may not include the following:
File a formal complaint with the IRS, and the FBI.
File charges of misappropriation of funds
File charges of false advertising
Contact the appropriate authorities regarding FTC guidlines for proper banking practices
I will be contacting and filing a lawsuit against Travellers Insurance
I will be filing a lawsuit on behalf of myself and ALL my paypal customers against you for any violations my lawyer may deem are applicable regarding punitive and and other damages resulting from this restriction.
Lastly, I will be writing letters to all major periodicals, newspapers, television, media, and all of your sponsors, explaining the situation, and gathering OTHER CLIENTS who have been hurt by your "inexplicable efforts" to restrict other accounts. This, of course, would result in a CLASS ACTION SUIT not only for the funds themselves, but related damages as well.
You now have a choice. You either lift this restriction IMMEDIATELY or I will pursue this furthur with all means at my disposal. This is not a free service any more. I now PAY for this. Big mistake, because now you are a BUSINESS, and are subject to legal proceedings AS a business
I sincerely hope that this has been a misunderstanding on your part and a mistake. I have used paypal reliably for quite some time with no problems. The problem here is the notice that is given with this restriction. THERE IS NO NOTICE. I hope you find the time to answer this, due to the holidays, you will make some very unhappy people and you will find yourself on the end of my litigation; not to mention ANOTHER lost client.
Thank you for your time
OK AW USERS
This is the ground floor to add your name to a list of plaintiffs that will be filed. My email account created for this sole purpose for anonymity is:
What are the two numbers that are floating around for Paypal CSR? I will need these. One is a toll-free, the other is a long distance call. Please post below.
Once these numbers are posted, I encourage every one to ram their phones, what this means is that you will completely tie up their lines. 500 incomings at once will cripple all but the biggest companies. If you have a computer that is online but not used, do an infinite redial on their number, with no hangup until a recorded message occurs.
This is the first and LAST time they will be doing this charade.
damon@paypal IF YOU ARE LURKING HERE I SUGGEST THAT YOU FORWARD THIS TO LEGAL AT ONCE.
AW members who are lawyers? Forward tips and help to
posted on December 19, 2000 04:59:10 PM new
Wow, I agree with you that the form letter was pathetic, and I too was angry, however the restriction was lifted within hours if not less and it was due to an error. I even received an email stating such with an apology no less. I'll wait till there is something more substantial to sue about. Thanks anyway.
posted on December 20, 2000 06:00:21 PM new
Pnth, I agree with your assesment of the situation and concur that legal action should be taken.
I myself was never burnt by PrayPal due to the warnings my fellow AW posters gave me. I closed my account.
However, you may want to reexamine posting specific actions that may place you under some potential legal liabilities yourself.
I am not a lawyer, but it does seem that I recall similiar instances where people were held liable for actions intended to disrupt a business.
Maybe you have already considered this, just thought I'd toss that out there.
Hope you can get SOME action out of them.
Good luck!
posted on January 1, 2001 06:10:05 PM new
For the record, the moment you mention in a letter to a corporation the words "Law", "Legal" or "Lawsuit" you have guaranteed that you will receive no more contact from that agency, company or corporation. Most, not just a few, but far closer to most than to many legal departments of corporations follow company policy that once the words listed above are communicated either by voice or electronic means, all communication must stop and the account and all correspondence is then turned over to the legal department. Likely forgotten unless your threats are backed up with a "Letter of Intent" drafted by a licensed attorney. So those who threaten to sue a company have all but shot themselves in the foot regarding any expedient resolve through email and phone calls except in the most exceptional and unusual cases.
posted on January 9, 2001 08:57:10 AM new
Here' the phone # I got...
Dear PayPal User,
You can contact me at 1-402-935-2258 to discuss this issue. Basically,
your account has been restricted due to a large number of buyer protection
and fraud claims. If you call, be prepared to answer how you intend to
resolved each and every claim that is outstanding in your account. The
first step will be to issue refunds to every customer that has not received
the items that you sold and promised. A quick count indicated at least 15
claims that will need to be resolved before we can move forward. I will be
in the office the rest of the week from 6am PST until 4pm PST.
posted on January 9, 2001 11:08:37 AM new
That ph# doesn't look right. Paypal is in Palo Alto, the 650 area code. I'm not sure of your situation, but if they ask for a password from you don't give it.
posted on May 3, 2001 08:16:39 AM new
I have another phone number, apparently a switchboard. It is 402-935-7733. I've been told (but haven't tried it) that extension 4053 will get you to a real live person that handles problem accounts.
I would like to know the corporate address of PayPal and the registered agent name and address(in Oregon)that can beused to file suit against.
I would also join any class action suit. My account is not in its 40th day of a fraudulent chargeback and I have not had a reply to my e-mails or phone calls. Not one.
posted on May 16, 2001 10:15:15 AM new
Just from the few quick messages I have read I am on the lower end of those involved with this, but I would like to add my name to a class action suit against Paypal. I have been arguing with Paypal for over 3 months now about $225 dispute (small compared to many here, but I am a student, so it is a ton of money to me). Paypal concluded that the seller was at fault, but will do nothing to refund my money. I have filed with the BBB and received a reply via snail mail from Chad E., resolutions manager.
His email is [email protected]. The number they gave me in the letter is 402-935-7733. I am assuming this is a general number that is of no use.
Feel free to contact me with any more information at [email protected]. I have also recently purchased ihatepaypal.net and intend to get a message board up there (call is therapy).
posted on May 21, 2001 05:31:52 PM new
Just like to say that I came home from vacation today and paypal has reversed 3 more accounts dating Dec. and Jan. and they said they had reviewed all my transactions
WHEN WILL THEY TELL THE TRUTH.I stopped dealing with them in Feburary. Maybe by next Feb. they will have reversed all of them and all of my customers will have their money back. THANKS PAYPAL.
SINCERELY, STONEY
BY THE WAY IF YOU WANT TO REACH PAYPAL'S MAIN OFFICE BE AWARE THE PHONE # IS (650) 251-1100 ASK FOR Mr. Sandeep Lal his ext. is 1106 tell him Stoney said to call him.
posted on December 13, 2001 08:20:29 PM new
I would like to know if anyone may be aware of a class action law suit aimed at the incredible behavior of this obviously flawed financial institution. I have a similar story to the ones I see here and at auction suits all over the net of their extremely high handed ways. In my case I made the mistake of simply stating that I was working in malaysia (Though I am an American citizen and resident). The wrote back the following:
<b>Dear Gary,
Thank you for contacting PayPal.
We currently do not provide service to Malaysia. Following an
investigation, this account has been permanently locked due to violations
of our Terms of Use. This decision may not be appealed.
Sincerely,
PayPal Account Review</B>
Paypal must come under some of the same restrictions as a registered bank. In any case, I am certain that the California Attorney general's Office will take an interest in their high handed ways and their incredibly obtuse approach to things. Not in the above letter they use the familiar saluation "Dear Gary" and then refuse to sign a name to the letter. Frankly this is the most incredible case of consumer abuse I have encountered in my 55 years. Though the amount of money they have frozen, in my case, is quite small, Paypal has given me a reason to feel anger and revulsion not unlike what I felt on 9-11. Paypal, here I come.
With regards to fellow victims,
Gary N. Davis
posted on December 13, 2001 09:10:13 PM new
Hi GaratUlian,
Can you please forward your account email address to me? I would like to have this reviewed by account management. My email is [email protected].
Malaysia, in addition to being a country we do not support, has a high fraud rate.We ask for documentation to protect the user, the user base, and the company from potentially riskly items. These restrictions can be removed (generally) if the user:
a) supplies the requested documentation (to make sure the correct party is utilizing the account)
b) there isn't a history of problems on the account (scam reports,chargebacks)
I certainly apologize that this happened but I would like to have this looked at.
posted on December 13, 2001 10:34:31 PM new
Well at least Damon is going to do something about it. Darn because your living in a foreign country YOUR a fraud. Does that mean all Arabs living in this country are bad? Maybe next it will be the city you live in. Or you rent and don't own.
By the way the co-founder of the company is an Russian immigrant.
posted on December 14, 2001 06:47:37 AM new
amzn one click does not do business with malaysia either.i sell books on amzn and received an email from a malaysian buyer asking if i would sell him a book.
i told him what the actual shipping would be and i have not heard from him(i have a merchant account which will process malaysian charges).
a year ago,i received an order on amzn from a customer with an email addr coming from russia,his credit card charge never go thru ,message from amzn is ship at your own risk.
i never ship the book.
posted on December 15, 2001 04:38:12 AM new
It is tru that PayPal seems to develop an "arrogant" attitude towards customers. First my account was restricted because all my family members (5) opened accounts with the same phone number. (Family - same house - same phone number - get the point?) It took an unbelievable 2 weeks!!!! until I had acces to my funds. I have faxed all requested documentation 7!!! times. 6 times they claimed they haven't received it. (Whatever) Everytime I faxed I called, everytime I was told it takes 5 business days. And nowhere else ever have I had a customer rep hang up on me. (Too bad I didn't write down his name) Wow, what a response time considered the fact that you have MY money.
Now three and a half weeks later I loose my PayPal debit card, follow their instructions, report it lost, request a replacement, result:
I get the feeling this restriction thing is going to become a monthly event. Further I can't see in their terms of use that I have to reveal my other financial matters on a monthly basis since of course I had to refax the whole stuff.
PayPal comes with a lot of amenities and convenience, but hold times on the phone of 1 hour and 45 minutes (!!!!!) to get the appeals department. No thanks I think after my current auctions close it's going to be Citibank's C2It from now on.
posted on December 15, 2001 07:58:45 PM new
To: Damon@paypal
Copy: Viewers of the discussion thread on AuctionWatch
Dear Damon@paypal;
You responded to a post I made on AuctionWatch regarding my current status as a customer of Paypal, and my complaint regarding the way Paypal had frozen my funds. (the URL of your post is: http://www.auctionwatch.com/mesg/read.html?num=10&thread=1453 , where you are registered as “paypalDamon”).
In your response to my post you stated that you would like to have Paypal account management review this again, and asked me to send you my account name. Thank you for your interest. This is something I would very glad for. Frankly, throughout the whole experience I have never had an identified contact to communicate with and have only received what would appear to be are form letters signed by “departments”.
The following is in response to your request.
My account on Paypal is/was? Registered as [email protected]. Please note that emails sent to this address are forwarded by a service to my email address as follows: [email protected].
Here are some facts related to this situation:
I am an American, living and working much of the year in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia. The bank account to which the Paypal account is linked is an account with Bank of America (California) where it has been an account in good standing for 15 years. I am a legal resident of California. I have, in the United States, bank accounts, a brokerage account, credit card accounts, and have (since my initial registration with Paypal) even established merchant accounts with all the major credit card companies in order to accept credit card transactions related to our web based antiques business. (That is to say, that companies like American Express know us and recognize us, and allow us to accept and conduct transactions with buyers using the American Express card. So does Visa, Mastercard, and Discovery). The web site’s we conduct this business on may be viewed at http://www.ulian.com and http://www.snuff-bottles.com I also maintain a web site for my primary business. The latter is a consulting service aimed at the high technology industries in Asia. My work is business development. I am an author of several published articles on this subject and have been a guest speaker at many symposiums related to this field. My primary business web site is http://www.davisconsultantsasia.com You see, unlike Paypal, I have absolutely no fear (or shame) about stating who I am.
By the way, all of my web sites are hosted on www.homestead.com and all are registered sites to my California residence as the registrant’s address.
I am legal citizen and resident of the United States of America. I pay taxes, vote, and am a citizen in good standing, with no legal actions ever taken against me by anyone, anywhere. This may all be verified by a simple credit report but Paypal has apparently not thought of that and, instead, has leapt to conclusions that border on insult if not libelous. My California residence address at the time of registering with Paypal was 13076 E. Mesa Verde Drive, Moorpark, 93021. It has changed since then, information which I will gladly give to Paypal again, if asked and if provided a confidential way to do so.
Here is a brief background relating to my situation with Paypal.
Over a year ago, I tried to access my account to transfer funds received in conjunction with sales made on our antique web site where we were accepting Paypal payments after registering for the service. We had done so several times before. In this case, however, we received a notice that our account was frozen and were told to write to Paypal customer service. We did so immediately. We received an email advising us that our account was under investigation for fraud. No other explanation was given. However, we were instructed to submit several items via fax to establish our identity, which included a copy of our driver’s license, a recent bill to us at our California residence, and other items. We complied within a few days, with the help of my daughter who lives at our residence in California. These items were faxed. Then we heard nothing. We called several times, and wrote several times only to be told that we were being investigated for fraud and nothing had been decided. This situation has gone on for over a year. Frankly I had lost patience and was in a situation of chalking it up to bad experience. The amount involved was too small to hire an attorney and to pursue a small claim while my primary business demanded much overseas travel was too difficult.
However, Paypal could not leave well enough alone. Recently received notices from their flawed system that I must register and claim unclaimed funds or risk losing them. In fact, today I have received the “final warning” from Paypal. That is what prompted me to write the post you read on Auction Watch.
Over the past several months, I felt there was no need to pursue Paypal from a revenge standpoint because, as a businessman, I felt confident that Paypal would self destruct. I still feel that is true. No organization can conduct their business as badly as Paypal does, and prosper. Your company will die a natural death brought on by the almost fascist arrogance and incredible ineptitude it obviously practices. I do not say this with any particular passion, but I am a businessman, involved in business development and high technology. I have seen ineptitude like this before. It is always fatal to the organization involved. Paypal had a wonderful idea but they are botching it badly in an overly zealous, and extremely poorly planned and executed attempt to weigh against the obvious fraud threats that services like Paypal risk.
However, Paypal’s last act of arrogance has tipped me over the scale. I must tell you that I do not intend to rest until I have pursued this matter through all the legal means required. I intend to start by seeking legal advice from an attorney. I also intend to write letters to the California States Attorney, Office of Consumer Fraud division. I also intend to start a letter campaign aimed at the Better Business Bureau, Consumer Reports, and other consumer advocate agengies such that I can identify. In addition I will start a letter campaign aimed at members of the 107th Congress including members of House of Representatives from California, members of House of Representatives sitting on the House Committee of Financial Services chaired by Congressman Michael Oxley, members of House of Representatives sitting on the Small Business Committee, Chaired by Congressman Donald Manzullo, and members of the Senate including those members sitting on the Committee of Banking, Housing and Urban Affairs chaired by Senator Paul Sarbanes, and the Senate Committee on Commerce, Science, and Transportation. If necessary, I shall keep it up though member so the 108th Congress, 109th Congress, etc.
I mention all this because I want to tell you that I have completely exhausted all attempts at dealing directly with Paypal on this issue, with the exception of this email to you.
I confess a last ray of hope based on your post on the Auction Watch thread. But I want to state that I have decided not to let this matter rest. It has occurred to me that, today, with the marvels of instant communication available to us, injured or aggrieved parties (and anyone) have readily accessible paths of resolution. It is, perhaps, no longer incumbent to us that we must spend fortunes on attorneys. I recognize fully that I am committing myself to the possibility of a long and tedious battle in the above statements. I want to share with you that I have more then enough reserve of tenacity and commitment to follow through. I state this, as I intend to post a copy of this email on the same Auction watch thread mentioned. I encourage others with similar experiences with Paypal to post here or contact me at [email protected]. I also pledge, that if you (and your post on AuctionWatch) are sincere, and that subsequent to this letter there is a fair review of my account conducted by Paypal, I shall post that it occurred and the facts pertaining to it, on this same thread.
Sincerely;
posted on December 18, 2001 04:02:15 PM new
Update:
Further to my last post I have been contacted by Damon at Paypal. He has requested that I once again forward copies of several documents, including driver's license, bank statement, utility bill, etc. to assist him in resolving my case with Paypal. (Paypal had frozen my account and withheld funds based on a pending investigation, or so they stated, of fraud related to my account. The problem that appears to be the cause of this snafu is that I reside a good part of each year in Malaysia and had written to Paypal from my Malaysian based isp and email address. (Malaysia is a location known to have a high incidence of credit card fraud - not to mention that Malaysia is the site of continued International Copyright infractions, etc. etc.) I will continue to post the progress, and eventual outcome of my case, as the details may prove to be useful to other Paypal users.
Gary N. Davis
posted on December 18, 2001 09:05:47 PM new
PEOPLE.....here is a email address of a man who has a website on the sad expeirences of people who have dealt with "paypal".....he also has SOLUTIONS......well knowledged on this "paypal"....issue.....contact him and he will be more than willing to help [email protected].......
posted on December 20, 2001 02:06:05 AM new
I plan to file a lawsuit in Texas against PayPal in the next 14 days. Is anyone interested in sending me his/her own affidavit (facts only please) that I may be able to use or to help with the discovery? If so, please send it to:
Patrick Wu
2314 Ferguson Lane
Austin, Texas 78754
(512)927-2226
You are welcome to join me in the lawsuit against PayPal.
posted on December 20, 2001 07:19:59 AM new
i am leaving you a webite site i feel you should visit which will help .....please remember that paypal is now in pursuit for a IPO on the stock exchange and has to come up with 80 million dollars to get in.....every hour they hold someone's money means that much more intrest earned.....times millions.....anyway...please visit this site....copy it and paste it on a search engine....perferably the google search engine.......and good luck........http://www.google.com/search?q=horror+stories+of+paypal&btnG=Google+Search
[ edited by skylite on Dec 20, 2001 07:58 AM ]
[ edited by skylite on Dec 20, 2001 08:03 AM ]
posted on January 3, 2002 03:49:44 AM new
Regarding my previous posts as to my difficulties with Paypal:
I am relieved to report that working with Damon Billian, a representative of Paypal, (who you may note from the above thread took an interest in my post), my problem has been resolved. In my case it arose from an eMail that I had sent to Paypal from my Malaysia based isp address. This raised a red flag with Paypal's fraud department because Paypal does not service account originators in Malaysia, and because Malaysia is well known as an origin of credit card fraud. In my case, I am an American, with a US bank account, and a U.S. residency. I happen to spend a good deal of time in Malaysia thus the problem arose.
In summary here is what I conclude.
If you have a claim with Paypal that is fair and legal, be tenacious and patient.
I would urge you to contact [email protected] I surmise that Damon is a floating problem solver for Paypal, something I think they desperately need. The long, protracted series of attempts at communicating with Paypal through normal channels was one of the most frustrating experiences I have ever been through. This is clearly something Paypal needs to solve. I cannot believe that Paypal will continue to prosper if they do not solve their customer support snafu. This said I am very grateful that Paypal has been, at least, wise enough to have a firefighter like Damon working on issues. However, I would note that stumbled into Damon purely by accident when I made my original post on this thread. Paypal should clone Damon several times over and publicize the fact that they exist. More importantly they should work to resolve the obvious systemic problems they have.
Paypal, conceptually, is a revolutionary idea and a much needed service. That they are forced to be diligent and extraordinarily alert to potential fraud is self evident to anyone who has conducted transactions on the web. However, I feel that Paypal should fall under heavier regulatory scrutiny. The tactics that Paypal's system thrust on me in my dealings with them were abusive to an extreme. While I apparently have collected my $82, and the balance sheet is square, I must point out that it was at a very high price of teeth gnashing. To all readers of my little rant here, I would say that the stakes are higher then dollars. In my opinion there is a principle in jeapordy. What Paypal did to me, and by all accounts, several others, is simply not right. And we are, after all, a right minded people when the chips are down.
To Damon, my thanks for your diligence and I hope you will accept my remarks in the spirit they are offered.
posted on January 4, 2002 10:29:13 AM new
Isn't it nice to know that you have to come here and post complaints for the world to see before PayPal will even consider helping you? My advice is to stay away from them until they become regulated.
posted on January 11, 2002 03:41:41 AM new
Patrick,
you mentioned in your December post that you would file a law suit against PayPal within a short period of time.
I’m a German journalist, and I have covered PayPal in a number of articles. If you are interested, please see my domain AboutPayPal.org.
I am now working on an article that deals specifically with taking PayPal to court, so I would be most interested in your personal experience (if indeed you proceeded with legal action).
I have a number of sources that won cases against PayPal and even collected damages. If anyone wants to share information with me on this topic, my private email address is: [email protected]
