posted on March 6, 2002 11:34:51 AM new
Folks,
I'm just now getting into this auction manager/auctions. A very good friend of mine swears by PayPal. However, after reading all of these PayPal messages, I am getting quite 'gun shy'. I don't have a merchant account but need to have credit card available. Who do all of you recommend. Thanks for your help.
posted on March 6, 2002 12:16:35 PM new
read the posts and make your mind up.....they have alot of loopholes and customer service SUCKS but guess they do fill a gap in the market if you want to accept credit cards
posted on March 7, 2002 01:39:26 AM new
In my opinion, you should run as far away from PayPal as you possibly can. You will only be setting yourself up for a lot of pain and suffering if you fall into their web of deceit and horrible customer service. I was a loyal member for 2 years and they shafted me like I had never done a transaction with them. They harbored a scam artist and let him get away with outright theft. They then proceeded to ignore any attempt I made to contact them. Just do some research on this company and you'll see that what I'm saying is true. Protect yourself and stay away.
posted on March 7, 2002 03:51:46 AM new
Only you can really decide whether PayPal or another such service is good for you to use.
Before signing up for any payment service, I would read all the information provided in their TOS and website.
A number of problems with paypal seems to result from an infraction the user made against paypal's Terms Of Service.
I have followed along paypal's rules for over two years and used a little caution (like turning down payments that make me nervous) and I have yet to have a problem that wasn't solved in less than a day.
posted on March 7, 2002 11:59:01 AM new
PayPals lack of common sense also has a lot to do with these problems. They clearly do not care about their customers and it shows everyday.
posted on March 7, 2002 02:37:54 PM new
IT WILL BE THE SORRIEST DAY IN YOUR LIFE, IF YOU USE PAYPAL aka "PRAY TO GET YOUR MONEY PAL".THEIR OLD BANK COMPANY X.COM KEPT $550.00 OF MY MONEY THAT I HAD ON DEPOSIT WHEN THEY WENT OUT OF BUSINESS LAST YEAR.MANY,MANY,MANY LAW SUITS ARE IN PROGRESS AGAINST THESE SCAM ARTISTS.STAY AS FAR AWAY FROM PAYPAL AS YOU CAN.I CAN'T BELIEVE EBAY ALLOWS THIS TO CONTINUE.
posted on March 8, 2002 07:25:16 AM new
Hi all,
I have been dealing with PayPal since over six month and I'm using it on Ebay and my Store.
I honestly have to say that PayPal is a gift to me as a seller and a buyer!
I never have any problems with them.
I buy and sell to Europe, Australia and Canada and not once PayPal failed me.
I often hear from sellers that they only have problems with PayPal and that’s the reason why they don’t accept them; on further questioning through email I usually discover that it is not a PayPal problem but 99.9% of the time the persons email provider, meaning people send money or try to receive money and their email provider just swallows the email.
I am a Senior Email Administrator at a large company and belief me I know what I’m talking about!
If you like to know more please email me and I gladly answer your question!
I am not affiliated or have any dealing with PayPal, it just made my online dealings such a great experience and I wouldn’t want to work without them!
Hope that helps
posted on March 8, 2002 08:35:42 AM new
wolfwinter
i do not use paypal
however senario
i purchase from you (overseas) and i pay using paypal then i receive the item however i am going to say i never and do a complaint with paypal. they will refund me my money and take it back from you.
guess what there is NOTHING you can do as paypal does not honor international transactions with shipping confirmations.
so i have item and money you have nothing.
what would you do?
this situation rises time and again and i would guess until it happens to you paypal is awesome!!!
posted on March 8, 2002 08:52:56 AM new
I am not winterwolf, but I thought I would offer my imput here again.
If this situation happened to me, I would take it as a learning lesson as I KNEW when I accepted the paypal payment and shipped the item overseas I had no protection if there is a dispute. Just as I KNOW that if I ship to an unconfirmed address in the US I have no protection from paypal if there is a dispute.
Mrfoxy76, this is where I see the problem. Users sign up with paypal without reading TOS or information provided by paypal on their website concerning transaction and protection. Or they read all the information and make their own choices. Something goes wrong, like the situation you provided, and the user starts complaining all over every forum on the web, that paypal stiffed them. PayPal didn't stiff them in the situation that you provided. PayPal clearly stated the user terms/protection concerning international transactions, the user MADE A CHOICE. PayPal didn't force them to accept an international transaction. The USER CHOSE to take the risk.
But I guess you see a USER'S CHOICE as being paypal's responsibility.
posted on March 8, 2002 09:08:07 AM new
customer service is very bad......when you get screwed for the first time by paypal....no way to communicate with customer service to get a honest answer....go to "paypalwarning.com" and have a look at what others have expierenced......
[ edited by skylite on Mar 8, 2002 09:09 AM ]
posted on March 8, 2002 09:48:14 PM new
Just do a search on Yahoo for PayPal+fraud+scams+terrible customer service. You should come up with about 16,000+ matches (enough quality reading for anyone) You will certainly see what the people here have been complaining about. It amazing to me that they are allowed to continue operating in this country. I assume they are paying off the right people.
posted on March 8, 2002 10:11:11 PM new
Cegore, there are some people who complain because they didn't read the TOS and are whining. There are others who did read the TOS, followed it completely, and still have major problems with PayPal. There have been so many people posting who did follow the TOS and PayPal just comes up with one excuse after the other or just ignores the issue completely. The only real way to get customer service is through Damon, and even he can only do as much as his superiors allow him to do. There are just too many people with thousands in an account that is restricted, who have posted on these boards within the last coupone of months. After reading some posts, and seeing PayPal's responses to them (usually blaming the user) it really makes you wonder how they could do this so much and still be in business. A lot of people love PayPal. That is usually because they haven't had a problem, like a restricted account.
lkw441, as for using PayPal, there are a few ways to use it while minimizing your risk.
a) Never, ever, leave money in your PayPal account for any reason. As soon as you get money from a sale, withdraw it from your PayPal account to your bank account. If it is a larger amount of money wait until it actually is in your bank account before you ship the item. Also, have your PayPal e-mail address be different than any other e-mail address publicly available to your auction winners (just have it so they know it when you e-mail them the payment information). Some buyers will pay before even contacting you (which sometimes leads to mistakes in the total, if the buyer includes shipping wrong, or doesn't understand the auction terms, etc.). In addition, it makes sure that no one will pay into your account should it become restricted, since you just wouldn't tell any of your bidders your PayPal e-mail address.
b) Every type of payment on PayPal is risky. Credit card payments carry the most risk. Instant transfer (bank account payment secured with a hold on a credit card) is also risky, if the buyer stops payment with the bank and charges back the credit card payment. PayPal balance payments are also risky, since PayPal can take a balance payment they receive from you away if the source of the payment was a credit card charge that was charged back. An e-check is the least risky once it clears. People used to be able to only accept credit card payments with PayPal from people with high feedback. Now they can't do that, since PayPal is not telling us anymore what kind of payment is received (and still won't tell sellers why or change it back). However, it does still tell you the difference between e-check and all other payments (since they take time to clear), so if you are dealing with a low feedback bidder, only accept an e-check payment.
c) Do not give PayPal your E-Bay information. PayPal will sometimes keep sending notices out to your bidders asking them to pay, even if they already paid by money order or another method of payment. Maybe it was a technical error, but that is definately not what I want my bidders receiving after they paid and possibly received their goods.
The words "customer service" with PayPal is an oxymoran, from my experience and poster's experiences. Even many supporters of PayPal on these boards and other boards admit PayPal has very bad customer service. If you definately want to use PayPal, you should get used to that.
The safest way is just not to accept PayPal. I've heard from a few sellers that around 4/5 of payments are money orders anyway, and the rest would probably pay by money order if they didn't have PayPal as an option. While certainly some sellers will have more people requesting to pay by PayPal than others, there will usually still be plenty of people willing to pay by money order.
[ edited by andrew123s on Mar 8, 2002 10:15 PM ]
[ edited by andrew123s on Mar 8, 2002 10:17 PM ]
posted on March 9, 2002 04:17:58 AM new
Andrew, I was talking more about the situation that MrFoxy gave of shipping to an international account and not being protected.
In the two + years that I have used paypal, I have had issues with my account, that I have had resolved very quickly with providing paypal the information that they requested.
I would never say that NO ONE experiences a valid problem with paypal, just as I wouldn't say all the claims against paypal are valid.
I read a lot of the stories/claims online and a number of them include a violation of the TOS or a seller being upset because they shipped to unconfirmed and lost the money and merchandise. In these situations I hold little pity. For the rules are very clearly stated and the user made a choice to violate the TOS or ship unprotected.
It isn't simply "just wait and see how you feel when it happens to you." I did lose money, when I shipped to an unconfirmed address in the US and the buyer claimed to have never received it. I didn't blame paypal at all, like so many do. I blamed myself. IT WAS MY FAULT. I also followed up on the transaction on my own and was able to recover my money by contacting the local police department in the buyer's area and providing them with the information.
posted on March 9, 2002 06:14:44 AM new
I agree that all the claims on these message boards are not valid against Paypal also. Most of them are a buyer/seller doing something silly.
HOWEVER there are also claims out their that are 110% valid and that is why there are soo many sites bashing Paypal.
Also it seems to easy for a buyer to chargeback a transaction even though they should not be able to (the situation I posted above).
Personally I had a horrible experience someone got into my account and took 2400 from it. Thankfully I got the money back however it took 3 months of waiting and a letter from a Lawyer to get it resolved. SO cost me cash to get it back and also Paypal got to keep the interest off my 2400 of 3 months, may not be alot but muliply that by the amount of people this has happened to I am sure it will add up.
I guess if Paypal had someone to answer to things might be different, like banks.
posted on March 27, 2002 10:30:56 PM new
I have one comment--why do people leave thousands in their paypal account? I don't don't even keep thoudands in the bank or in investment accouts--why are people so surprised--have you heard of ENRON--corporate fraud is de riguer. It is like everyhting else--as indviduals we don't have the power to fight our government--which is rule by corporation It is not just here in the US it is global--a few American corporations basically control it all. Please wake up.
posted on March 28, 2002 05:28:23 AM new
HI. i fully recommend that anyone wishing to pay electroncially uses ebay billpoint or citibank c2it.com services. why? just look at the big chunk of cash paypal takes out of your payment. it use of be dinky. i sell alot of small stuff on ebay that usually goes for less than 10 dollars. add the 3.50 for shipping by priority mail. paypal's take usually amounts to 10 to 20 percent of the total sale. at least with billpoint, there fee is refunded if the item is less than 15 dollars. AT CITIBANK, they charge nothing for buyer or seller. so starting one month ago, i started making the c2it logo more prominent and recommending people use this service. after all, i'd rather have that additional 20 percent in my pocket instead of paypals quarterly earnings reports. the other thing that sucks is when someone pays twice for the same item. i now go to refund it to them and paypal wants a cut of the refund. so i just end up mailing it to them. paypal started out great. now they really SUCK big time.
posted on March 28, 2002 07:57:56 AM new
if someone sends your duplicate payment,you can return the payment by hitting that refund/return button and pay no paypal fee ,it is only good for a certain number of days,so read the details at paypal site.
this is my 7th year on ebay and i have been accepting paypal for 2 years,i do not have any problem,most payments are under 25 dollars these days and i use the debit card to pay the post office,gas station ,walgreen etc.
paypal is a nifty tool and some folks see too much into it and want it to be what they want it to be,no system is all encompassing and flexible,so check with paypal before you embark on something new and adventuresome.
you can only have one paypal account,you could have more than one email address for that account,you cannot hook up other people's bank account to your paypal account.
dont let others access their paypal accounts on your PC and your ISP,if they owe paypal money,paypal may lock up your account.
if you make a living with your pc,camera,scanner ,tell your friends to go to KINKO.
dont go to suspicious sites and give away your password.
both billpoint and paypal allow you to withdraw fund faster than merchant accounts and propay.
propay allows you to accept cc payment and send cc invoice,discount rate is 3.5% and transaction fee is 35 cents and it takes days for fund to be available.
there is also yahoo paydirect,aol direct,c2it and amzn one click (15% rate).
when there is chargeback,someone loses and most of the time,it is the merchant,dont let anyone tells you there is a fairy godmother or rose garden in the business world.
posted on April 13, 2002 03:19:50 PM new
Paypal is necessary if you own an online business. Nowadays, if you dont accept Paypal, your customer will probably go to your competitor who does accept it. My advice is to TRACK every single package, deny users without verified addresses, and completely be on top of your payments. Also, SWEEP your account every day, maybe twice a day.
Paypal has over $14,000.00 of my money FROZEN right now. My account is locked, my business is hurt, and my life is at a standstill.
posted on April 14, 2002 07:43:11 AM new
you said,, SWEEP your account every day, maybe twice a day.
/////////////////////////////////////////////
can paypal debit your bank account in case of chargeback??
posted on April 14, 2002 12:09:47 PM new
I use PayPal, Billpoint, c2IT and I also accept credit cards directly using a merchant account and VeriSign for web based transaction approval.
I have been using PayPal for four years and have conducted thousands of transactions with them. I have never had a problem. Not a single chargeback, nor have any funds ever been frozen or suspended.
PayPal has even assigned an account representative to me. They called and introduced themselves and gave me their phone number and e-mail address and told me to call if they could ever assist me. Every 3 months or so my rep calls and checks in on me.
I once used my PayPal debit card to pay for an auction where the seller accepted only Billpoint. I never got the merchandise, it was a scam. eBay suspended the seller and when I contacted Billpoint they indicated I would need to work through my credit card issuer. I called PayPal and they refunded the entire amount to me THAT DAY!
Recently I used PayPal to purchase $12,000 in merchandise from a Singapore vendor. PayPal called me to make sure that the transaction was valid before releasing the funds. I appreciated their extra effort and I think it demonstrates that they attempt to detect fraud before it occurs.
PayPal does not dictate the rules of engagement. Why do you have no protection on international orders? Because international banks will charge PayPal back regardless of documentation provided.
The process for chargebacks is the same with my merchant account. If the credit card issuers bank approves their charge back the money is deducted and it doesn't matter what documentation you have provided. Chargebacks are resolved by the credit card issuer, not the merchant account bank. If the credit card company issues the charge back then the funds come out of your merchant account and you have no recourse. It is part of the risk you take in doing business.
People piss and moan about the fees that PayPal charges. Guess what, I actually pay more to accept credit cards directly because I have to pay fees not only to the bank on the merchant account, but also to VeriSign who runs the transaction for approval.
Is PayPal perfect, no I am sure that they are not. But, I think that they do a great job. Keep in mind that you only see one side of the story on these message boards. PayPal has millions and millions of members worldwide. If only .05% ever had a problem it would add up to hundreds of thousands of complaints which taken in isolation would make you think there was something to worry about. What you have to consider is the other 99.5% that never have had a problem.
Statistically you have much better chance of not having a problem. I seldom post on these message boards but PayPal gets bashed here so much I finally decided I should add my 2 cents worth. Good luck to you!
posted on April 14, 2002 01:37:47 PM new
Dawndie, while many members don't post their stories, there are many members with complaints that just don't post them. At one point, they had over 100,000 outstanding complaints/issues, according to a TV report on them.
While it is true that international seller protection with many countries isn't feasible, disputing false quality of goods chargebacks from US transactions is. While it is true that credit card issuers can reject your documentation, they do give the merchant a chance to provide it and they generally pay some attention to it. A relative of mine runs a small business (provides services) and he has had three chargeback attempts in recent memory. After he disputed all three, the card issuer looked at the documentation, all three of the buyer's chargebacks were denied.
In addition, while you might have never had a problem with PayPal, many people have, and have gotten hundreds if not thousands restricted, and some people need that money to live on, etc. The large majority of users who don't have a problem doesn't excuse PayPal from not adequately helping the users who do have a problem, and getting those problems resolved. You ask whether PayPal is perfect. Most businesses aren't perfect. However, there is a very big difference from not being perfect to having this many users with very large problems and money they can't access.
[ edited by andrew123s on Apr 14, 2002 01:40 PM ]
posted on April 14, 2002 02:02:45 PM new
People who are happy and never have had a problem don't take the time or effort to post to a message board. The only posts you are going to see are the ones who have had problems.
Chargebacks are handled identically by PayPal and Merchant Account providers. If you get charged back on PayPal the same thing would have happened if you had accepted the credit card directly.
PayPal does contact you and requests documentation to respond to chargebacks, the same as a merchant bank. The decision to chargeback is not theirs to make, it rests solely in the hands of the credit card issuer regardless if the transaction was processed by PayPal or a merchant account.
If PayPal currently has 100,000 outstanding complaints that would mean that 2/10 of 1% of their registered users have registered a complaint. I would call that outstanding overall customer service.
The problem is that people blame PayPal for established banking practices. They have never accepted credit cards directly and assume that the cause of the problem is PayPal which simply is not true.
I don't question the fact that their are legitmate problems. I would just encourage people to look at the big picture and read the terms of service agreement prior to entering into a contractual relationship. If you fail to read and understand the provisions of the agreement the fault is yours not the service providers.
posted on April 14, 2002 02:20:07 PM new
Yes, the chargeback is handled the same, but with a Merchant Account, they will not restrict an account on a whim (which when you read this forum is something that paypal does repeatedly).
Second, with a merchant account, you have given all kinds of information up front including checking accounts and other person information. However, with paypal, you set up your account, the restriction comes, and you have to fax personal information to some fax number without sometimes talking to a human being. With all the stories of ID theft and other types of fraud, this is not the best system.
Maybe, paypal should ask for this info at the beginning that way you know what you are in for from the beginning and not wait until you are running auctions, needing the money to get more product for the next auction and hit you with a restriction.
Then the problem of waiting 5 to 10 business days to get the restriction removed.
Is paypal a neccessary service if you are going to auction stuff or be a online company? Not really, if you want to do a high volume, get yourself a merchant account. If you do a small amount, then paypal or the other payment service would work. Just do not keep a lot of money in the account.
posted on April 14, 2002 05:48:46 PM new
Dawndie, PayPal does not ask for documentation for quality of goods chargebacks. They just deduct the money from your account and that is final. For other types of chargebacks (i.e. fraudulent use of credit card or claim of non-shipment), they ask for documentation, but not for quality of goods chargebacks. That is the difference between PayPal and a merchant account regarding chargebacks.
Not asking for documentation is not an established banking practice. Restricting accounts is not a normal banking practice either.
In addition, I wouldn't call a company with 100,000 outstanding complaints/issues having great customer service. The 100,000 people with problems probably don't care much that the others don't have problems. They want their problem fixed. In addition, that 100,000 figure I believe was awhile ago according to the TV report, when PayPal had a lot less users. Many times users who e-mail PayPal get canned responses that don't address the original question at all. Even some PayPal "cheerleaders" admit PayPal doesn't have great customer service, This is one reason why for many months their BBB record was unsatisfactory.
posted on April 20, 2002 07:20:05 PM new
With over 225 auctions on ebay behind me accepting PayPal there and from 3 web sites I have never had any problem with PayPal except once when I made a mistake. In that case, it was taken care of promptly by customer service. I have both a business and a premier account account with PayPal. Two pieces of advice you are getting here are key to using PayPal successfully. #1. Read the service agreement. It means what it says so be familiar with it before your first transaction. #2. After a transaction or two, get your money out! It costs nothing to transfer the funds from PayPal to your bank account. That way you won't have any of the problems you hear about with PayPal "freezing your account". Under those conditions, it's a great service to have as an alternate method of receiving payment.
posted on May 9, 2002 07:29:19 PM new
I would suggest that you use Paypal very carefully. Don't accept Paypal for transactions for over $200.00, have the customer use Bidpay or some form of Money Order service like Payingfast. Never overnight anything. Also realize that anything funded by credit card can be reversed and if a reversal occurs after you have shipped goods you will have a major hassle on your hands even if you followed the TOS. Also realize that just because someone is Paypal verified and has a confirmed address doesn't mean that they are really who they claim to be and that Paypal does not take responsibility for transactions made from hacked accounts. I had my account frozen temporarily and I still believe that had I not been proactive and pushed the issue with Paypal that I would have taken it in the teeth for several grand. Don't keep much money in your Paypal account and always keep it invested in shares of the Money Market fund. The fund is regulated by the SEC and provides an additional legal avenue if you need it in the case of problems.
posted on May 9, 2002 07:45:47 PM new
there are people who deliberately keep a large balance in their paypal accounts despite the risk.
think of it,how many people will know you have fund in paypal unless you tell them??no statement,no tax form.
retired folks,disabled folks who get ss benefits,folks who are going thru divorce,avoiding child support,foreigners living in countries which are politically unstable,or fiscally unstable.
who knows how much you have in paypal account,think,if you dont tell,most would not know.
posted on May 14, 2002 02:13:13 PM new
Pay Pal is great as long as you keep in mind that they only care about getting your money. Pay Pal is not a bank and yet they "bank". They are under orders by state attorney generals in several states to basically get licensed as a bank. Louisiana has ordered them to quit accepeting pay pal payments because they are not a bank.
I personally beleive that pay pal will bite the bullet because they will not be able to comply and register in every state as a bank.
With this in mind I transfer money out as fast as it comes in. I would be absolutely petrified to have several thousand dollars at pay pal.
If you think ebay billpoint or pay pal will treat you right then you are ready for "plucking". You have to beat them at their own game.
Actually pay pal can help the serious crook because all he has to do is set up phony accounts and buy tons of stuff from all you guys that trust pay pal and then reverse the charges on his real credit card. You will never be able to get this guys credit card # or any other info. They will protect this crook from you. They do not care because they will take the money back from you if they can.
Even if you transfer to a checking account they can try and retrieve it back. Tell your bank not to allow any electronic withdrawls or better yet tansfer to secondary account.
If you swim with sharks you better have a first aid kit.
