posted on March 23, 2002 05:55:26 AM new
Dear Damon,
this is really frustrating what Paypal does to the sellers. Find below a case of a fraudulent buyer. He ordered but I refundet him because he orderded to much. Now he disputed his payment and I have to cover the costs again. Please reverse this transaction. Bill Winters wanted to buy goods from us on Dec 17 (8 transaction=USD521). We did not accept his order because he violated our order limit (stated on our site). To settle the matter in his favor we provided him with a refund on Jan 04 (521 minus the Paypal fees of 22.73 we had to pay for his mistaken orders and minus our arrangment fees of 18.73 = refund of 480). Now he canceld the payment via his credit card. As a result he got the money back from his cc company and from us. Furthermore we have to cover the chargeback fees of USD80! Now Bill Winters claims he does not know Paypal!!! Find all the emails below:
thx for your message. Beating around the bush will not settle this case. No need for emotions. Let's talk turkey. You ignored our order limit (clearly stated on our site), therefore we provided you with a refund according to the legal contract you entered with us.
Your payment: 521 (8 transactions)
Costs for your mistaken order (without chargeback fees of USD80): USD41
Our refund: 480
The payment was disputed, so you got your money back twice: a) from your cc company and b) from us (via Paypal)! Conclusion: you owe us the refund.
Go to www.paypal.com - and simply log into your account. You will find our money request. Please pay our refund back immediately or we will put this on the next level. Please note: we enforce a very serious prevention policy against fraudulent buyers.
To settle the matter amicable we want you to return the refund of USD480. This is a very generous offer because it would mean that we covered all the expenses your mistaken orders caused (Paypal fees of 22.73, arrangement fees to cover our administrational costs of 18.27, chargeback fees of USD80 = totals to USD121, which we paid for you).
If you do not cooperate we will report your fraudulent activities to a) your cc company b) Paypal c) to your local district attorney's office. Furthermore we will advise our debt collector to visit you. He will collect the refund of 480 plus 80 chargeback fees and of course his costs of around USD450. In addition he will blacklist you on the ChexSystems. Also you will face legal action and as a consequence a fine. Please understand we will not tolerate that you violate our service twice.
I am very confident that this case will be ruled on our favor. However, I highly appreciate your integrity. Looking forward to your payment ASAP. Feel free to contact me anytime.
Kind Regards,
Heidi Spyri
Fraud Prevention Department
Moving Media powered by B. Kaufmann & Company
CH-9430 St. Margrethen SG
Switzerland/Europe
Call 0041-71-740-1623
Fax 0041-71-740-1628
www.sendcigarettes.com
E.6. Do you take action against fraudulent buyers?
a) legal action:
Fraudulent buyers will be reported to their ISP as well as to the local district attorney's office for consumer fraud.
b) blacklisting:
Debt collection is carried out by a member of ASA International (www.collector.com). Our collection agency will blacklist fraudulent buyers at the ChexSystems Network. The ChexSystems network is made up of member banks and credit unions that regularly contribute information on mishandled accounts to a central location. ChexSystems neither approves nor declines new account openings. Members report the names of account holders whose accounts have been mishandled. Reasons for reports are normally credit card fraud or outstanding dept. Each report submitted to ChexSystem remains on file for five years, unless the source of the information requests its removal or ChexSystems becomes obligated to remove it under applicable law.
All Activity from Dec 15, 2001 to Jan 05, 2002 for Winters - Download Log
Date Type To/From Name/Email Status Action Gross Fee Net Amount
Jan 4, 2002 Payment To Bill Winters Completed -480.00 0.00 -480.00
Dec 17, 2001 Payment From Bill Winters Completed 94.75 -4.00 90.75
Dec 17, 2001 Payment From Bill Winters Completed 87.25 -3.70 83.55
Dec 17, 2001 Payment From Bill Winters Completed 84.75 -3.61 81.14
Dec 17, 2001 Payment From Bill Winters Completed 50.85 -2.28 48.57
Dec 17, 2001 Payment From Bill Winters Completed 84.75 -3.61 81.14
Dec 17, 2001 Payment From Bill Winters Completed 84.75 -3.61 81.14
Dec 17, 2001 Payment From Bill Winters Completed 16.95 -0.96 15.99
Dec 17, 2001 Payment From Bill Winters Completed 16.95 -0.96 15.99
----- Original Message -----
From: [email protected]
To: Moving Media
Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 10:45 PM
Subject: Re: urgent - READ and settle this case or face legal action
Heidi S.:
1. The refund was short.
2. The refund was not issued by moving media to my credit card account.
3. There is nothing to settle.
4. Who is Paypal?
5. Put this on the top level shelf.
6. I found the solution on Dec. 18th.
7. Thanks for your understanding - although you probably won't get this at all.
8. Bill.
Moving Media wrote:
Dear Bill, you have disputed your payments (Dec 17) although we have provided you with a refund (Jan 4) for your mistaken orders. To settle this matter we can send a money request to your Paypal account. Let me know how you want to solve this. Please take care of this case ASAP otherwise we have to put this on the next level. However, I am sure we will find a solution. Thx for your cooperation. Kind Regards,Heidi S.Fraud Prevention DepartmentMoving MediaCH-9430 St. Margrethen SGSwitzerland/EuropeCall 0041-71-740-1623Fax 0041-71-740-1628www.sendcigarettes.com PS: find our policy below as well as the details of the refund below. You have entered a legal contract with us by ordering. Also you have agreed on our terms by ordering. E.6. Do you take action against fraudulent buyers?
Fraudulent buyers will be reported to their ISP as well as to the local district attorney's office for consumer fraud. Our system records the IP address of your computer. We can compare your email address to the IP address. If they are from different sources you may not qualify for our 100% Customer Protection Policy. Debt collection is carried out by a member of ASA International (www.collector.com). Our collection agency will blacklist fraudulent buyers at the ChexSystems Network. The ChexSystems network is made up of member banks and credit unions that regularly contribute information on mishandled accounts to a central location. ChexSystems neither approves nor declines new account openings. Members report the names of account holders whose accounts have been mishandled. Reasons for reports are normally credit card fraud or outstanding dept. Each report submitted to ChexSystem remains on file for five years, unless the source of the information requests its removal or ChexSystems becomes obligated to remove it under applicable law. E.1. What is your Returns & Refunds Policy?
As prescribed by the Swiss law governing purchases by mail, the buyer has 30 days to return the purchased product. The product must be intact and contained in its original box and the order number must be attached. The buyer will provide suitable packing. The cigarette boxes must not have been opened. Shipping costs will only be reimbursed to the sender if the product return is due to causes related to responsibilities sendcigarettes.com. The buyer must inform that the package was returned in writing to our Customer Care Centre. Furthermore the buyer must provide the order number. The buyer can also indicate the reason for rejecting the package. Any other information, complaints and remarks are welcome. The money will be reimbursed when the package is received. In case of request for duty tax, the customer can reject the package and not sign the reception receipt. The package will automatically be returned to sender and the shipping costs will be charged to us. The buyer must inform that the package was returned in writing to us. The order number must be enclosed.
E.2. What happens if the purchase is not deemed satisfactory?
We offer a 100% Customer Protection Guarantee. Although the vast majority of our orders occur without problems, sendcigarettes.com will work to help settle disputes through our Customer Care Centre. Many problems can be resolved through open communication. Should an issue arise, our customers are asked to contact us immediately. In case there is a mistake on our side we will check if you qualify for a reshipment or a discount on your next order. Our Customer Care Centre is just one click away: [email protected]. Will you refund the full price?
If a problem is resolved in your favor, you will be provided with a refund that usually covers the price of the cigarettes. Money will be returned by being credited to your credit card. In some cases we have to take transaction costs, shipping charges and arrangement fees in account. If your shipment is misplaced or damaged, we guarantees a PARTIAL refund of your purchase price.
E.4. How do I qualify for the 100% Customer Protection Guarantee?
To qualify for a refund you have to ship your order by Priority Air Mail or by Registered Air Mail. Orders shipped by Economy Air Mail have no redress in law for a refund. Note: to qualify for an amicable settlement you must comply with the conditions of our Fraud Prevention Policy. Many problems can be resolved through open communication. Should an issue arise, our customers are asked to contact us immediately. Our Customer Care Centre is just one click away: [email protected]
E.5. What happens if I dispute the payment?
A chargeback is valid only when a seller fails to meet the agreed delivery terms. Before initiating a dispute customers have to review the delivery timeframe they have agreed on by ordering. If your dispute is not warrantable the card issuer may close your account. You can not cancel an order while the merchandise is in transit. According to International Banking Regulations you have to contact the seller first. Orders, which are shipped via Economy Air Mail may not qualify for a refund. We prefer to solve problems through open communication. In case your order is missing or parts of your order are lost you may qualify for a reshipment, a discount on your next order or a refund. Our Customer Care Centre is just one click away: [email protected]
All Activity from Dec 20, 2001 to Mar 22, 2002 for [email protected] - Download Log
Date Type To/From Name/Email Status Action Gross Fee Net Amount
Jan 4, 2002 Payment To Bill Winters Completed -480.00 0.00 -480.00 Transaction Details
Payment Sent (ID #2P899653HL627141T)
Name:
Bill Winters (The recipient of this payment is Unverified)
Email:
[email protected]
Amount:
$-480.00
Date:
Jan 4, 2002
Time:
05:29:31
Status:
Completed
Subject:
refund for all mistaken orders placed on Dec 17
Note:
Dear Sirs, this is the refund for all your mistaken orders placed on Dec 17. Please log in to your Paypal account and find your refund. According to our customer protection policy we have to apply arrangement fees. This is to cover the transaction costs and our expenses. Your refund covers the price of the cigarettes and the shipping charges. It is credited to your Paypal account (not to your Credit Card account). You can withdraw your refund to your bank account or use your funds by using Paypal. Thx for your cooperation. Regards, SC/Liechtenstein/Switzerland Customer Care Call 011-423-370-1420 or [email protected]
Shipping Address
No Address Provided
Funding Type:
PayPal Funds
Funding Source:
$-480.00 - PayPal Account
All Activity from Dec 20, 2001 to Mar 22, 2002 for [email protected] - Download Log
Date Type To/From Name/Email Status Action Gross Fee Net Amount
Jan 4, 2002 Payment To Bill Winters Completed -480.00 0.00 -480.00
Dear Bill Winters,
thx for your message. Beating around the bush will not settle this case. No need for emotions. Let's talk turkey. You ignored our order limit (clearly stated on our site), therefore we provided you with a refund according to the legal contract you entered with us.
Your payment: 521 (8 transactions)
Costs for your mistaken order (without chargeback fees of USD80): USD41
Our refund: 480
The payment was disputed, so you got your money back twice: a) from your cc company and b) from us (via Paypal)! Conclusion: you owe us the refund.
Go to www.paypal.com - and simply log into your account. You will find our money request. Please pay our refund back immediately or we will put this on the next level. Please note: we enforce a very serious prevention policy against fraudulent buyers.
To settle the matter amicable we want you to return the refund of USD480. This is a very generous offer because it would mean that we covered all the expenses your mistaken orders caused (Paypal fees of 22.73, arrangement fees to cover our administrational costs of 18.27, chargeback fees of USD80 = totals to USD121, which we paid for you).
If you do not cooperate we will report your fraudulent activities to a) your cc company b) Paypal c) to your local district attorney's office. Furthermore we will advise our debt collector to visit you. He will collect the refund of 480 plus 80 chargeback fees and of course his costs of around USD450. In addition he will blacklist you on the ChexSystems. Also you will face legal action and as a consequence a fine. Please understand we will not tolerate that you violate our service twice.
I am very confident that this case will be ruled on our favor. However, I highly appreciate your integrity. Looking forward to your payment ASAP. Feel free to contact me anytime.
Kind Regards,
Heidi Spyri
Fraud Prevention Department
Moving Media powered by B. Kaufmann & Company
CH-9430 St. Margrethen SG
Switzerland/Europe
Call 0041-71-740-1623
Fax 0041-71-740-1628
www.sendcigarettes.com
E.6. Do you take action against fraudulent buyers?
a) legal action:
Fraudulent buyers will be reported to their ISP as well as to the local district attorney's office for consumer fraud.
b) blacklisting:
Debt collection is carried out by a member of ASA International (www.collector.com). Our collection agency will blacklist fraudulent buyers at the ChexSystems Network. The ChexSystems network is made up of member banks and credit unions that regularly contribute information on mishandled accounts to a central location. ChexSystems neither approves nor declines new account openings. Members report the names of account holders whose accounts have been mishandled. Reasons for reports are normally credit card fraud or outstanding dept. Each report submitted to ChexSystem remains on file for five years, unless the source of the information requests its removal or ChexSystems becomes obligated to remove it under applicable law.
All Activity from Dec 15, 2001 to Jan 05, 2002 for Winters - Download Log
Date Type To/From Name/Email Status Action Gross Fee Net Amount
Jan 4, 2002 Payment To Bill Winters Completed -480.00 0.00 -480.00
Dec 17, 2001 Payment From Bill Winters Completed 94.75 -4.00 90.75
Dec 17, 2001 Payment From Bill Winters Completed 87.25 -3.70 83.55
Dec 17, 2001 Payment From Bill Winters Completed 84.75 -3.61 81.14
Dec 17, 2001 Payment From Bill Winters Completed 50.85 -2.28 48.57
Dec 17, 2001 Payment From Bill Winters Completed 84.75 -3.61 81.14
Dec 17, 2001 Payment From Bill Winters Completed 84.75 -3.61 81.14
Dec 17, 2001 Payment From Bill Winters Completed 16.95 -0.96 15.99
Dec 17, 2001 Payment From Bill Winters Completed 16.95 -0.96 15.99
----- Original Message -----
From: [email protected]
To: Moving Media
Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 10:45 PM
Subject: Re: urgent - READ and settle this case or face legal action
Heidi S.:
1. The refund was short.
2. The refund was not issued by moving media to my credit card account.
3. There is nothing to settle.
4. Who is Paypal?
5. Put this on the top level shelf.
6. I found the solution on Dec. 18th.
7. Thanks for your understanding - although you probably won't get this at all.
8. Bill.
Moving Media wrote:
Dear Bill, you have disputed your payments (Dec 17) although we have provided you with a refund (Jan 4) for your mistaken orders. To settle this matter we can send a money request to your Paypal account. Let me know how you want to solve this. Please take care of this case ASAP otherwise we have to put this on the next level. However, I am sure we will find a solution. Thx for your cooperation. Kind Regards,Heidi S.Fraud Prevention DepartmentMoving MediaCH-9430 St. Margrethen SGSwitzerland/EuropeCall 0041-71-740-1623Fax 0041-71-740-1628www.sendcigarettes.com PS: find our policy below as well as the details of the refund below. You have entered a legal contract with us by ordering. Also you have agreed on our terms by ordering. E.6. Do you take action against fraudulent buyers?
Fraudulent buyers will be reported to their ISP as well as to the local district attorney's office for consumer fraud. Our system records the IP address of your computer. We can compare your email address to the IP address. If they are from different sources you may not qualify for our 100% Customer Protection Policy. Debt collection is carried out by a member of ASA International (www.collector.com). Our collection agency will blacklist fraudulent buyers at the ChexSystems Network. The ChexSystems network is made up of member banks and credit unions that regularly contribute information on mishandled accounts to a central location. ChexSystems neither approves nor declines new account openings. Members report the names of account holders whose accounts have been mishandled. Reasons for reports are normally credit card fraud or outstanding dept. Each report submitted to ChexSystem remains on file for five years, unless the source of the information requests its removal or ChexSystems becomes obligated to remove it under applicable law. E.1. What is your Returns & Refunds Policy?
As prescribed by the Swiss law governing purchases by mail, the buyer has 30 days to return the purchased product. The product must be intact and contained in its original box and the order number must be attached. The buyer will provide suitable packing. The cigarette boxes must not have been opened. Shipping costs will only be reimbursed to the sender if the product return is due to causes related to responsibilities sendcigarettes.com. The buyer must inform that the package was returned in writing to our Customer Care Centre. Furthermore the buyer must provide the order number. The buyer can also indicate the reason for rejecting the package. Any other information, complaints and remarks are welcome. The money will be reimbursed when the package is received. In case of request for duty tax, the customer can reject the package and not sign the reception receipt. The package will automatically be returned to sender and the shipping costs will be charged to us. The buyer must inform that the package was returned in writing to us. The order number must be enclosed.
E.2. What happens if the purchase is not deemed satisfactory?
We offer a 100% Customer Protection Guarantee. Although the vast majority of our orders occur without problems, sendcigarettes.com will work to help settle disputes through our Customer Care Centre. Many problems can be resolved through open communication. Should an issue arise, our customers are asked to contact us immediately. In case there is a mistake on our side we will check if you qualify for a reshipment or a discount on your next order. Our Customer Care Centre is just one click away: [email protected]. Will you refund the full price?
If a problem is resolved in your favor, you will be provided with a refund that usually covers the price of the cigarettes. Money will be returned by being credited to your credit card. In some cases we have to take transaction costs, shipping charges and arrangement fees in account. If your shipment is misplaced or damaged, we guarantees a PARTIAL refund of your purchase price.
E.4. How do I qualify for the 100% Customer Protection Guarantee?
To qualify for a refund you have to ship your order by Priority Air Mail or by Registered Air Mail. Orders shipped by Economy Air Mail have no redress in law for a refund. Note: to qualify for an amicable settlement you must comply with the conditions of our Fraud Prevention Policy. Many problems can be resolved through open communication. Should an issue arise, our customers are asked to contact us immediately. Our Customer Care Centre is just one click away: [email protected]
E.5. What happens if I dispute the payment?
A chargeback is valid only when a seller fails to meet the agreed delivery terms. Before initiating a dispute customers have to review the delivery timeframe they have agreed on by ordering. If your dispute is not warrantable the card issuer may close your account. You can not cancel an order while the merchandise is in transit. According to International Banking Regulations you have to contact the seller first. Orders, which are shipped via Economy Air Mail may not qualify for a refund. We prefer to solve problems through open communication. In case your order is missing or parts of your order are lost you may qualify for a reshipment, a discount on your next order or a refund. Our Customer Care Centre is just one click away: [email protected]
All Activity from Dec 20, 2001 to Mar 22, 2002 for [email protected] - Download Log
Date Type To/From Name/Email Status Action Gross Fee Net Amount
Jan 4, 2002 Payment To Bill Winters Completed -480.00 0.00 -480.00 Transaction Details
Payment Sent (ID #2P899653HL627141T)
Name:
Bill Winters (The recipient of this payment is Unverified)
Email:
[email protected]
Amount:
$-480.00
Date:
Jan 4, 2002
Time:
05:29:31
Status:
Completed
Subject:
refund for all mistaken orders placed on Dec 17
Note:
Dear Sirs, this is the refund for all your mistaken orders placed on Dec 17. Please log in to your Paypal account and find your refund. According to our customer protection policy we have to apply arrangement fees. This is to cover the transaction costs and our expenses. Your refund covers the price of the cigarettes and the shipping charges. It is credited to your Paypal account (not to your Credit Card account). You can withdraw your refund to your bank account or use your funds by using Paypal. Thx for your cooperation. Regards, SC/Liechtenstein/Switzerland Customer Care Call 011-423-370-1420 or [email protected]
Shipping Address
No Address Provided
Funding Type:
PayPal Funds
Funding Source:
$-480.00 - PayPal Account
All Activity from Dec 20, 2001 to Mar 22, 2002 for [email protected] - Download Log
Date Type To/From Name/Email Status Action Gross Fee Net Amount
Jan 4, 2002 Payment To Bill Winters Completed -480.00 0.00 -480.00
