posted on August 29, 2000 09:02:49 PM new
Sorry about posting this on the ebay only Board. AW should think about general aution issue board.
This post is for folks that were selling thier items before the internet. Sort of hitting the local coffee shop, after the street show.
Hi guys, seen alot of comments by sellers over alot small issues, that if you think about it, is just the cost of doing business.
A lot of you no longer do your selling at Fairs, shows, or malls.
Remember some of the problems we had there. First you sent a couple of days packing for the show, then you had to be there the night before, or get up at some ungodly hour so you could have your selling booth.
We had set up costs, travel costs, rental of the space ect.
You had the nice person ask you to hold an item for an hour, never cameback, and it was the only item everone wanted to buy. The kid in the stroller, that grabed the $200.00 item and snapped of the arm. The big gust of wind that leveled the table with over $1000.00 worht of glass. This was the cost of doing business.
The internet is the safest place for a seller to sell. We have almost no risk, god the costs are low. So why is everyone getting so upset over the NPB, so you lost what? The chance to sell, you have done that before.
Get a bad check and failed to wait before you shipped. Remember the shows were over 70% of your business was in checks, and they took the stuff with them that day.
The internet went down, the street fair was rained out.
I think that its the new folks that are getting so upset, never sold items face to face, they just do not understand the cost of selling, it might be cheaper here but it ain't free. So post here how itused to be, and for many of us that do both still is.
posted on August 29, 2000 09:12:14 PM new
I know what you're saying. I'm just making the transition to internet selling. I've been doing shows for over 5 years and picking for the local specialty collectible shops as well. My trade has been in smalls ie. die-cast vehicles, pez dispensers, salt and pepper shakers. Add this one to the list of the price of doing shows: lookie-loos that pocket a hot wheel or a pez while your're not looking. I've lost to theft on numerous occasions without any recourse. Often the loss isn't noticed until the end of the day. It's a hard one to swallow but there isn't much one can do about it except add it to the cost of business. The time, hassle and work is a pain but the shows can be fun, especially the social aspect to getting to know other dealers and meeting the collectors. There's a trade off to everythng. The internet doesn't get very personal, I guess that's why my first feedback point was as important to me as making the sale.
posted on August 29, 2000 09:13:42 PM new
edhdsn - I can relate to that and I have no problem selling on ebay. I have been selling for almost 30 years not on ebay but at craft fairs and antique shows and flea markets. I have taken many a check and I have had only 1 bounce and it was solved in a week. You know what problem I encountered at a flea market was that I was so far from the washroom it took 15 minutes to get there and 15 minutes back and when you get back to your tables it was time to go again. Now you also forgot about the sun. Oh how burned you were the next day. You could hardly open yours eyes. I sure do prefer this to outdoor sales and you don't have to listen to the people say my mother had this and my grandmother had that, well, they can say that but at least you can't hear it. I also have a mall space and I just hate to go out there when this is so convenient and I make more here and it costs me less. Thanks for starting this thread.
posted on August 29, 2000 09:18:49 PM new
ehansen-Do you have any interesting Pez's. I am a pezhead and enjoy every minute but pickings are slim now a days. I think everybody is keeping them. There is one at the mall where I am that I will purchase it is an old rabbit (ithink) He wants $20.00 for it and I get it for $18.00 I hope it will get my granddaughter through college when it is time.
posted on August 29, 2000 09:19:54 PM new
Well, I have been buying and selling, both in my shop and at shows, since 1972. In all those years, I have had ONE bad check and ONE theft, and have nothing but fond memories...in spite of the very hard work, and shlepping my goods all alone, across country...Only advancing age and health issues made me stop...
I am fortunate that I have had no bad checks on Ebay, in two years...But, reading other people stories, I feel I was safer doing shows...
******************** Shosh http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/rifkah/
posted on August 29, 2000 09:27:18 PM new
edhdsn - Here's my reply to your post and when you look at many of ebay's listings and spend some time in ebay's Q and A. You form this logical conclusion.
75% of all ebay's sellers greatest entreprenuial endeavor prior to ebay was that lemonade stand at age eight. we all can remember how profitable that was
I said that to say this, many of those complainers and gripers are not business people. They are not in business, they are just trying to grab a few bucks for their wares. So they cry about NPB, they comprise about 70% of the sellers from hell ranks, they argue about these piddly transactions as if their mortgage were riding on each and everyone. They lack so little control in their everyday lives that they dictate terms and conditions in their transactions that are plain outright stupid.
Its that personality that ruins the venue for the real business people. Its that same mentality that creates the scene for 89% of ebay's problem transactions. Scammers don't make the venue bad, its sellers who should keep that day job and nothing else coupled with that used to watch soaps and Oprah all day seller that are destroying the venue. What is strange is as long as ebay makes listing fees and FVF's they could care less.
posted on August 29, 2000 09:36:46 PM new
Shoshanah:
There is not a major bad check problem here, I have has 2 in 3 1/2 years, both fed exed MO
the day afer I let them know.
Its just close to 10,00,000 transactions per week, and only 3 or four places to post, its like getting 10,000 dealers together at a face to face convention, and limiting the first hour to bad checks.
That is what a chat thread does, brings everyone together that has the same problem. Makes it look much worse than it is, like drinking frozen leamon aid from the can, if you get my drift.
Still love going to the shows, and still do, also shop the shrinking number of malls.
posted on August 29, 2000 09:49:25 PM new
networker67:
Some of what you are saying has a ring of truth to it, but many of us at the shows were part time also. It was the interaction with other sellers that matured the newbies, what we have here is a buch of newbies, with no interaction. Thats why I started this thread. A educational tool.
I know how the internet in general has impacted many things, in my area show attendance by both buyers and sellers are down 30%. Estate auctions and sales up by 30%, with the item quality down 40%.
Thought we could bring a grain of sanity to the newbies.
posted on August 29, 2000 09:58:19 PM new
Libra63:
Thanks for bringing up the bathroom thing, had a booth like that once, the seller beside me, loved his drinking his Budwiser, he had 2 cases with him, and thought that if he yelled to folks to visit his booth sales would be better, sure glad the bathroom was farway then.
posted on August 29, 2000 10:29:10 PM new
edhdsn - Yep we all started somewhere. IMHO the number one problem with this new format for commerce. It is too easy to turn a reasonable initial profit making mistakes that would spell doom in any other format. Before those mistakes turn costly they are part of the sellers Normal Way of Conducting Business. When that happens they won't accept it is wrong, they are closed to suggestions that will improve the situation. And most importantly they fail to grasp that change and growth are key to any ventures success.
Don't believe networker67, look at some of these sellers Terms. But these sellers have help making the mistakes, buyers who are as new to buying in the format as they are to selling in it. Look at the routine threads about quick fire negatives from buyers. Then when you figure in the success of scammers and crooks within the format. You have a formula for chaos.
I remember when I first started selling on ebay. Didn't read a single tutorial, never figured in the emailing, and communications with buyers. Managed to close my first 20 auctions and made close $1,900.00 and didn't encounter a problem until I started visiting the ebay Q and A. Didn't make any of the newbie seller mistakes. Why because I knew business in General. I know terms should be fair and reasonable to buyers. I also know that given the medium of the internet there will be communication problems. I also knew that service is paramount and the object of business in any format is to make money.
On ebay we have people buyers and sellers alike with great expectations and false notions about business. Heck I knew the format was troublesome for some people when I discovered that the common rule of thumb is "My Auction My Terms". That told me the average seller has never had any control over anything so they are just excited to have so much control here.
Then I see the people doing business on a World Wide Medium complaining because people from around the world enter a bid. So what your terms say US only. How hard is it to email the person and move on to bidder number two. What is the reply the should follow my terms. Well they didn't follow your terms and you'll either take the money and ship the item or sell it to the next bidder. Not a hard choice to make from my perspective. ebay is really so simple, people on both ends of the transactions make it hard.
The title is the price of selling on the internet. Well the price is a quarter for a basic listing and FVF's to ebay. That is a bargin IMHO, the other stuff is just a part of business. Like accurate descriptions, prompt communications, patience with the customer, the occasional bad paper, the customer that nothing you do will please them.
The problem is many ebay sellers don't realize how good they have it. Hopefully this thread will bring posts that will make many of them realize how good they really do have it.
posted on August 29, 2000 10:45:00 PM new
networker67:
You are right about how good it is on the internet. Just saw a post where a lady is up set over emails from a bidder with 10 pos and 2 negs got upset when she cancelled thier bids over the two negs, the negs were early, show misunderstanding on how this internet thing works. Everyone is so quick to neg someone. She keeps on saying 8, doesnt know that you have to have 10 to get 8. According to her she runs 100s of auctions a week, and has time to pull bidders at all.
Bad bidders are part of the cost, but in my mind a 8 pos is a learning bidder, nod abad one until they fail to complete a transaction with me. Ed
edhdsn
posted on August 29, 2000 10:57:26 PM new
networker67:
Wow terms, how well I know. How many auctions on nice ites are a top line that finds its way in search, a pic, the best on ebayas a dsicription, followed by 3 pages of terms.
I started the same way you did. I do not have terms in my auctions. Ihave great dsicriptions, multiple pics if neede, and how to buy, and shipping cost with a warning that international bidders need to contact me for shipping cost before bidding. That is it.
Been selling stuff all my life, the delivery is different, but the basics, that were there 200 years ago have not changed.
posted on August 29, 2000 11:16:38 PM new
edhdsn - That seller you are talking about sounds like one of those busy bodies from the Q and A. Cancelling a bid over two negatives that even sounds like Q and A advice to me. She is what I call a worry over nothing seller.
She is so worried that a transaction will go bad that she is willing to sacrifice time and productive resources to run away any business that doesn't fit her high standard. The sad part is the buyer is hurt that a person would actually be that small minded. Hence why they emailed her over it. Here's what my reply to the bid cancellation would have read.
Sorry my 2 negatives have caused you to worry about my ability to complete a transaction with you. I guess you are one of those people running loose in our society that has never made a mistake. Perhaps maybe you are one of those wacko sellers that think only buyers make mistakes. Thanks for cancelling my bid your judgemental nature has convinced me that it is great for me that you cancelled my bids. I wouldn't want a third negative to my feedback to be from you and my return negative might have damaged your appearance of perfection to other ebayers........We wouldn't want that would we...lol...lol
That's what I would sent such a seller in that situation and bought the item elsewhere. One of the nice things about ebay is depending on the item there are always several to choose from.
posted on August 29, 2000 11:24:59 PM new
This thread is a breath of fresh air, thanks everyone.
I too had my own shops for the past ten years and after a couple of years trying out eBay, decided to go full time this past Spring.
I have more money in the bank today than I ever did running those shops with all their overhead.
I suppose the reason we have so many self-destructive sellers on eBay is all the advertising and e-mails that sell the pipe dream that anyone can make tons of money on the internet. No experience in selling is needed. The only requirement is a **sincere DESIRE to make $5,000-10,000 a week**. Yeah, right.
On eBay money is made one auction at a time; growth and success comes one happy customer at a time. No other honest way to do it.
posted on August 29, 2000 11:27:37 PM new
When we sell on the internet the transactions seem to take so long from start to finish and I agonize whether the item gets to the buyer in one piece and if they will like it and I say to my husband "Selling in the store is so much easier, they choose their item, they pay for it and they are gone, end of transaction".
We have worked in the store since June without a day off. Sunday a customer who tried to get an item for less than half price called us criminals and said we should be in jail. That evening I stayed late to vacuum and clean the floors as so many people had spilled drinks, etc. Today a child threw up on the floor and another one spilled their drink and we lost items to shoplifters. I said to my husband, "Selling on the internet is so much easier".
No matter which way you do it, it is work and there is a cost.
posted on August 29, 2000 11:34:12 PM new
eeeeheeee....I too, am chuckling about the "bathroom" situation at the flea market...my learning ground...It took me months to "earn" the right to get a booth closer to bathrooms and horrible cafeteria... Like "rites of passage"... Yes, I really DO like being online...but I DO miss the shows, the camaraderie, the great deals...all those friends from all over the country...
******************** Shosh http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/rifkah/
Thanks you for starting this thread. So many sellers have no idea of the time and expense required to sell at shows throughout the US. The exposure your items receive on eBay is unbelievable.
I've set up booths at shows for 25 years that required travel from 300 to 1200 miles one way with four nights in motels. The exposure at these shows were about 1000 persons. Maybe 100 looked at some of my items, and about 25 actually made purchases. Most of my items were sold for $200.00 to $2,000.00, so I managed a small profit.
The exposure your items receive on eBay is unlimited, and according to my counters, usually 75 to 100 bidders look at my items during a seven day auction. These are usually bidders that have the cash to buy the item.
One of the finest benefits from listing on eBay is being able to insert photos, thanks to Auction Watch, that present every side of your item, including defects, at a size that benefits the buyer without using a glass, and best of all, there is no wear and tear on your item.
I've only made about 400 purchases and sales during my two years on eBay, and have never had a complaint from a seller or buyer.
posted on August 30, 2000 06:05:27 AM new
I too have been selling for about 20 yrs. and fairly new to e commerce. It is so much more convenient to sell on e bay and the web, and more cost effective. It takes much less time and effort to take the picture, list, etc., than to set up monitor customers,chit chat about grandma's item and appraise various items E commerce does have it advantage and disadvantages. As with any sight unseen sell your apt to have problems, but if you treat your customers with well, describe as accurately as possible, picture defects and ship in a timely matter most can be avoided. As with in type business there will be problems such as a demanding or totally unreasonable buyer, it's just part of dealing with the public at large and playing the retail game.
I consider making the move to the air waves a great decision, even with some of the minor problems that arise from time to time. To me its still the best decision I have made, business wise, there is much less overhead, less breakage, less time involved and more time to spend those weekends with my family than in the store or market place.
posted on August 30, 2000 06:06:28 AM new
So nice to see that's there still some common sense in this forum after all! Just a guess, but it sounds like most of those posting to this thread are selling antiques, collectibles, vintage items, or something they personally have a strong interest in.
Not the same as sellers looking for any old used, or mass produced item they can throw up on eBay to make a quick buck. Makes a big difference in a person's perspective about all this I think.
I am a collector as well as a seller, and for me eBay is a labor of love. I wouldn't be here if I only viewed it as a way to make some money, because it is - as stated above - very hard work. I guess if you don't enjoy what you do, it makes you kind of bitchy.
posted on August 30, 2000 10:06:11 AM new
A little "off topic", sorry....:
Wonderful customer sends payment immediately, nice, polite Lady. Says: "do not rush with shipping as I will be out of town for a few days".
over 2 weeks later, I get an Email asking me when I shipped...Oh! My gosh!...I had totally forgotten about it, being so used to shipping immediately! I email her right away, pack her item, adding a little present of the things she collects, as a token of apology, run to P.O., send her scan of shipping receipt....I then telephone her to apologize again, and cross my fingers, but get ready for a NEG...Yesterday, I find a wonderful POSITIVE feedback! That was so, so nice, and very touching!
Those are the little perks which revive faith in people...
posted on August 30, 2000 10:19:01 AM new
gotta say I agree that the whole tedious scan-list-email-pack-ship thing is still WAAAAAAY better than setting up endlessly at shows and meets, listening to people talk endlessly while I was trying to sell to others, having people endlessly fondle things without buying, dealing with their quirks, etc. Not to mention the hot sun beating down, canopy collapsing, things getting broken, etc. Personally I LOVE collectibles. However, I am NOT a people person. So eBay is WONDERFUL for me, because my contact with customers is limited to email (which is a good medium for me) and not the face-to-face nicities which bore me to tears. Best of all I only have to deal with the ones that buy! I take good care to answer any POSSIBLE question in my listing....and I have reduced the question asking considerably. (Yes I am always happy to answer a question, but i don't want to spend tons of time doing it...too many memories of looky loos asking 10,000 questions and then walking away. Bleh. Like I said, I'm a collectible lover, not a people lover.)
posted on August 30, 2000 10:33:48 AM new
Great thread, Ed! I still set up at shows, although I don't do any outdoor ones. I love the comraderie of interacting with those that have the same passion for collecting that I do, and love the shoptalk with the dealers and collectors. I also sell in an online mall and online auctions. I feel an even greater responsibility to customer satisfaction in these venues, because the buyer is relying upon me to be his "eyes and fingers". I ask myself about every item I sell online, "if I was purchasing this for my own collection, would I be happy?" I am also often willing to take a lesser price for an item because of the lower overhead for online selling. But I would miss the "people contact" if I were to give up shows completely.
posted on August 30, 2000 12:01:11 PM new
I never sold in shows, but I did work in retail for 15 years awhile back.
I think I can spot a lot of the posters on this board that were at one time, or still are, dealing with face-to-face customers and the posters that sit at the computer and say
"My way or none, my way or none" all day.
To me, at the first whiff you get that a transaction is going to go sour, the next thing you do will determine the outcome of it. How you reply, how you proceed. So many posters come to this board with complaints that they started themselves.
When we e mail a bidder we should act like we are talking to them face-to-face.
Selling on ebay is so much nicer, no set hours, no 15 minute breaks. Longer working days, true, but the freedom, there is no comparison.
posted on August 30, 2000 01:06:44 PM new
networker67,
Thank you for the post, was pleasant to read. So many people take for granted what they have and their selling that I wonder how many could survive with a shop or business that was not connected to the internet.
It seems to me that 90% of the posts on the boards are just someone trying to get other people to support them in what they did and then claiming that they posted only to get comments. Well when you critique them or suggest how you would have done it differently, they right away clammer and look for others who may feel the same way.
Giving negs, complaining about shipping. Complaining when someone does not contact them in a 3 day period, their check showed up on the 11th day and my TOS clearly says 10 day so I gave them a neg, and the list goes on and on.
I do get many useful things from this board, and many people have some very valid questions. That is what these boards should be about, not running for emotional support and looking for someone to console you and tell you that you had to stand your ground.
How some of these people are able to function almost amazes me. They clutter up the board talking of what was found at a flea market or garage sale and how much they made and so on and so forth. It has turned into a emotional support chat room instead of a board with real solid questions and answers.
I still travel and do shows about 5 or 6 times a year and I get much more satisfaction out of doing a show. You meet the people face to face, you have a sort of bonding as the same people come to visit you year after year. I believe that is why their are so many emotional support threads on this board for that same sort of bonding.
Patience is needed and not everyone can leave work to get to post office right away, some people use computers at work or at library and everything doesnt fit the schedule all the time. They use a friends computer, they get a dreaded virus, they run into a bad dealer and list goes on. You need to be flexible to deal with all kinds of situations and not jump the gun too early when everything does not go perfect.
Well thanks for your posts, they are a breath of fresh air that not everyone here needs a group to console them.
posted on August 30, 2000 03:46:32 PM new
With all the ease of selling on the internet that ebay has provided, I still feel that their is much more they can do. I started selling for the first time ever on ebay, so I cannot share the flea market stories. However, I have a feeling that as ebay grows you will see more and more sellers like myself. Where maybe 2 years ago if you wanted to sell something you would go door-to-door, now ebay provides an outlet for any new seller.
That being said, ebay must address some issues for what will be the largest are of growth new sellers. Ebay should make payment transactions smoother and easier and they should step in to reduce fraud more often. While services like propay make transactions easier and safer, you still need to need use a third-party system and go through several hurdles.
I feel if a customer can buy my product with the same ease they can buy at amazon, I would sell a lot more.
posted on August 30, 2000 03:53:41 PM new
On the other hand, should Ebay have TOTAL CONTROL, including payments, My! that could be disastrous...As often as they are down, or experience glitches....It is bad enough that they are now proposing to offer "Mailbox" to ship! No, thank you...I'll continue doing it my way, and finding my own supplies... I am NEVER down...Only...lazy, once in a while...
And yes, edhdsn, THANX for the positive thread and the trip down Memory Lane..
********************
posted on August 30, 2000 05:29:07 PM new
haha great Tread I never sold at flea market booths but I grew up around flea markets and the buying side of it.
posted on August 30, 2000 05:38:00 PM new
I agree with so many things said here. I am comfy in my apartment. I did not make a lot of money at flie markets but did enjoy them. Had a lounge chair and enjoyed chatting with the other dealers. They would watch your stuff while you went to the ladies. This is the best price.. I dont sent out negatives or remine people about a listing more than once. If they dont pay. I relist. Had a package not mailed last week fell on floor of the car. Buyer very understanding. She was afradi she would not get the item. I saw someone give a negative to a new buyer for a $1.50 lipstick. Not me I move on...love this tread keep it going I need to learn all i can Patricia
posted on August 30, 2000 06:14:46 PM new
networker67:
One of the thing that I get a kick out with some of the"I only sell on the internet, its the only place I have ever sold", we will get into a chat, and I will talk about some of the fun perks of the antique , and collectibles business.
Like taking the cost of every vacation, and weekend trip as a tax deduction. I get a repley back. Oh I do not worry about tax deductions. I send them to the me page, and your account, and the all activity. Then tell them you need deductions to cover the FV of that list, proof of purchase ect. They get very quiet. Ed
Yes, I really DO like being online...but I DO miss the shows, the camaraderie, the great deals...all those friends from all over the country...