Spreland
|
posted on August 30, 2000 06:24:40 AM new
PayPal has been transfering money in and out of my bank account for over six months. Now they are informing my bidders that I'm an "unverified account".
PayPal stated that if you did not jump through the hoops you would not be listed as a "verified account" with their new "protection" program. Where did they state that a "unverified account" message would be sent to your bidders if you didn't jump through the hoops? I guess they can get away with this underhanded bullsh!t now that they're established.
|
yisgood
|
posted on August 30, 2000 08:14:42 AM new
And you just now woke up? This happened a long time ago.
Paypal is a free service that is doing sellers a tremendous service. If you dont want to use it, then dont. If you do want to use it, then use it according to their rules. It takes less than two minutes of your effort to get verified and Paypal pays the costs. At an average of $1 per user, they have spent over 2 million dollars doing this to make it safer for you. So stop using it and lose bidders or get with the program and stop whining.
|
Shoshanah
|
posted on August 30, 2000 09:47:19 AM new
And Damon mentioned that soon, there will be a VERIFIED Logo for us to use... Just like PoweSellers, and Ebay's Verified User... 
********************
Shosh
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/rifkah/
|
bldrdrms
|
posted on August 30, 2000 09:47:53 AM new
I dropped paypal cause they want into my bank account.. I offered free shipping and raised the item price.. Sales are so good I cant keep up! The day I left paypal was a good one indeed!
|
yisgood
|
posted on August 30, 2000 09:52:15 AM new
Bldrdrms: I remember you - the one who lives under a bridge. Your sales went up since you dropped Paypal? Have you been smoking those cigarettes BP sent you?
|
jrscharton
|
posted on August 30, 2000 09:53:04 AM new
Hey, the free shipping is a good idea! I might just do the same thing -- offer free shipping AND offer PayPal as a payment method. Too many buyers now-a-days are passing up auctions that don't offer PayPal as a payment method, and I'd hate to lose out on those sells.
|
mrpotatoheadd
|
posted on August 30, 2000 09:53:31 AM new
I dropped paypal cause they want into my bank account.. I offered free shipping and raised the item price.. Sales are so good I cant keep up!
Well, that makes perfect sense- why wouldn't a bidder want to pay more, so long as you don't offer PayPal as a payment option?
|
paypaldamon
|
posted on August 30, 2000 10:57:50 AM new
Hi,
I realize the verification issue was a heated one, but a large percentage of our user base has decided to verify (even larger if you compare it with people with bank accounts only) because of the fraud protection measures.
Thank you for the input
|
Spreland
|
posted on August 30, 2000 04:25:12 PM new
I don't have any problem with the verification and fraud protection. I object to PayPal's underhanded approach.
|
paypaldamon
|
posted on August 30, 2000 04:49:34 PM new
Hi Spreland,
May I ask what is underhanded about the approach? I would like to address any concerns.
|
Spreland
|
posted on August 30, 2000 06:25:59 PM new
Ebay has verified sellers too? Do they inform bidders that you are an "unverified seller" when they try to bid?
CAUTION: Please disregard the 800+ positive feedback that may lead you to believe this is a legitimate seller. This seller is "unverified".
|
Shoshanah
|
posted on August 30, 2000 06:37:33 PM new
 ...not again....
********************
Shosh
http://www.oldandsold.com/cgi-bin/auction.cgi?justdisp&Rifkah
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/rifkah/
|
yisgood
|
posted on August 30, 2000 06:38:51 PM new
Paypal has protection in place if you deal with a verified seller. However, some sellers feel that they should be excluded from this requirement and that their buyers should not be informed. By informing their customers that the seller they are buying from is not covered under this protection, Paypal is being "underhanded." They should leave their customers uninformed, if they want to be considered trustworthy.
And Paypal makes you "jump through hoops" for this verification. It's a lot easier to post a dozen messages on Auction Watch in several different threads than to enter two numbers into Paypal.
Did I miss any of your "logic"?
|
abacaxi
|
posted on August 30, 2000 06:39:27 PM new
Spreland -
Here's what my EOA says, in the section about PayPal payments:
Yes, PayPal says I am unverified, although they have my name, address, email addresses, credit card number, credit card billing address, and have mailed several checks to me. As part of the verification process, they want me to tell them my bank account number and give them electronic access to it, and I am not willing to give it to them.
If you are unwilling to send me money via paypal because I am unwilling to give them access to my bank account just to be "verified", please send a personal check or a USPS Money order to the address below:
(shipping address here)
Damon -
YOur notices are STILL scaring the hell out of the buyers!
|
magazine_guy
|
posted on August 30, 2000 06:40:20 PM new
So click on the "verify" button, and let PayPal send you free money. It's easy, and you get to keep the money.
S.
|
vargas
|
posted on August 30, 2000 06:50:52 PM new
PayPal really blew it when they introduced the verification system. It should never have been tied to what amounted to permission to dip into your checking account.
Any cautious, careful consumer was right to refuse to verify under those circumstances.
It isn't just sellers who are declining to verify. I have a number of buyers who have stopped using PayPal because they don't want to verify.
The whole mess could have been avoided if PayPal had separated verification and signing up for the ability to fund your account via electronic transfer from your checking account.
It will take a long time for this one to go away.
|
bearmom
|
posted on August 30, 2000 06:52:27 PM new
I LOVE PAYPAL!! HOWEVER!!! I have a couple of problems with paypal right now.
1) They HAVE my bank account number and have from the beginning, but I am still listed as unverified. What else do I need to do-give DNA?
2) The tern 'unverified' is very misleading. Not 5 minutes ago, I got a message from a buyer who said she tried to pay me with Paypal, but they didn't 'recognize' my address. After a couple of messages back and forth, I realized she was talking about the 'unverified' message. This is about the third customer who has misunderstood. why not 'unguaranteed' or something more concise?
3) Regularly, customers send payments to my alternate address,(My husband's email address) so I registered it with Paypal, thinking that I could just send the money to my bank from there. WRONG!!!! They won't let my husband send money from his paypal account to the same bank account that I use-only one user per bank account.
OK, i can live with that. I just send the money from his account to mine. Right?
WRONG!! Since he can't use his bank account, he has a very low limit and can't send any more money to me! This, I simply don't understand-if we both have the same last name, same address, same bank account, is it so hard to believe that we share the same money?
Don't get me wrong-I love Paypal and seldom bid on something I can't pay for that way. But little things like this are sure frustrating!
|
uaru
|
posted on August 30, 2000 07:36:41 PM new
The verification process isn't difficult, it took me less effort to get verified than to make this post and they gave me $1.45 for my efforts.
I have a hard time understanding all the fuss.
|
Spreland
|
posted on August 30, 2000 07:43:45 PM new
paypaldamon;
You can read my original statement.
Where did PayPal inform me that bidders would receieve a "unverified account" message when trying to send payment to my account?
I was informed by confused bidders. NOT PayPal. If you have a problem with "underhanded", what would you call it?
|
magazine_guy
|
posted on August 30, 2000 08:02:24 PM new
bearmom:
"1) They HAVE my bank account number and have from the beginning, but I am still listed as unverified. What else do I need to do-give DNA?"
They need to know that you have access to that account. Anyone could sign up and list somebody's bank account- it would prove nothing. This gives your account an added level of verification that should be valuable to you as a seller.
"2) The tern 'unverified' is very misleading. Not 5 minutes ago, I got a message from a buyer who said she tried to pay me with Paypal, but they didn't 'recognize' my address. After a couple of messages back and forth, I realized she was talking about the 'unverified' message. This is about the third customer who has misunderstood. why not 'unguaranteed' or something more concise?"
Agreed- it's misleading, and causes confusion. They've been made aware of these concerns. Meantime, it's very easy to get verified- that was the solution I chose, and I'm glad I did.
"3) Regularly, customers send payments to my alternate address,(My husband's email address) so I registered it with Paypal, thinking that I could just send the money to my bank from there. WRONG!!!! They won't let my husband send money from his paypal account to the same bank account that I use-only one user per bank account."
They allow multiple email addresses on a single account. That would have been the easier solution to this problem, I think, rather than opening a second account.
Seriously folks, this is a tempest in a teapot. PayPal is offering a valuable service, for free (for most, anyway). The verification is an easy process, and they give you money for your trouble. Yes, they have your bank account number (as does anyone who you write a check to, or anyone whose check you deposit). They state they will never withdraw funds from your account without your permission. They're owned by X.com, a real bank- they are a legit company.
There are a lot more serious things to worry about than whether PayPal is gonna lose its mind and try to drain your bank accounts. Might as well worry that Bank of America is gonna do the same. The paranoia just isn't justified, IMO. But if you really don't like giving them your account, open a free account with X.com, their parent company, and use that empty account for verification.
|
lorpac1
|
posted on August 30, 2000 08:06:42 PM new
Correct me if I am mistaken but I thought the only way Paypal could access your account is if you gave them permission. I have been using Paypal for some time and it has made my ebay auctions go so much smoother. People pay right away they receive their items so much quicker. AND Paypal does not charge either of us a cent. Plus you get the $5.00 referral from time to time.
Unlike Billpoint...but that is a whole other subject.
[ edited by lorpac1 on Aug 30, 2000 08:07 PM ]
|
uaru
|
posted on August 30, 2000 08:07:45 PM new
Spreland Where did PayPal inform me that bidders would receieve a "unverified account" message when trying to send payment to my account?
You might check the announcment board, this has been up for some time. Look at the item titled "X.com Offers Fraud Protection on Purchases!"
http://www.paypal.x.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=p/gen/announcements-outside
The verified/unverified info has been on accounts for weeks.
|
bearmom
|
posted on August 30, 2000 08:11:30 PM new
Magazine guy, I have tried several times to list our bank account on my husband's paypal account. They send a message every time that two user id's CANNOT be registered to the same bank account.
Sure it's easy to verify-I didn't say it was hard. I didn't say I refused to do it.
What I said is that they have the ability to deposit money directly into my bank account. I don't see that they need any other access to that account, or any further proof that the account is really mine-do they honestly think I'd have my money sent to someone else's account?
Yes, anyone I write a check to has my account number on that check. That doesn't mean I'd sign a blank check and give it to them!
|
Spreland
|
posted on August 30, 2000 08:19:52 PM new
uaru;
I saw the message some time ago on the announcement board and also on the first page when I logged on to my account.
Where did PayPal inform me that bidders would receieve a "unverified account" message when trying to send payment to my account?
|
magazine_guy
|
posted on August 30, 2000 08:25:37 PM new
bm:
what I was suggesting was that you ADD hubby's email address to your PayPal account. That would have solved your initial problem, I think, and it only takes about 3 seconds. At this point, I don't know if you can cancel his account and then add his email to your one account, but it might be easier than what you're trying.
And yes, I suspect some crooks would be willing to sign up with PP and list a bogus bank account, if it would give them "verified" status that would add to the "con" of a scam. They could merely transfer their illicit gains to some other account- not the bogus checking account. What gives this an added level of "verification" is that you are able to tell PayPal the amounts they transfer into your checking account, proving that it's really your account.
Steve
|
uaru
|
posted on August 30, 2000 08:29:07 PM new
Spreland,
This was in that announcement.
"You can see whether a seller is Verified on the confirmation page before you Send Money or complete a payment. Please note that the Guarantee does not apply when you pay Unverified accounts."
I hope this helped.
|
vargas
|
posted on August 30, 2000 08:32:12 PM new
"Correct me if I am mistaken but I thought the only way Paypal could access your account is if you gave them permission."
THAT was the problem when the verification process was introduced. The wording on the verification page gave PayPal permission to access your account to withdraw money. PayPal has since changed the language.
I'm not afraid that the people at PayPal will go in and drain my bank account. I know they already have my account number. I simply never wanted to give them permission to remove money from my account for ANY reason. It's for the same reason I never give any service permission to remove money from my checking account (automatic drafts for example). It can be awfully difficult to revoke that permission. It can take months for automatic drafts to be halted, even if you've cancelled a service. Health club payments and AOL service are two examples where people have reported this problem.
Again, I'm not concerned about the people at PayPal. But computers make mistakes. I wasn't willing to put my mortgage money at risk.
Yes, the answer is to verify an empty X.com account. That's just what I did. And I electronically transfer all of my PayPal monies directly into a different, "unverified" checking account. X.com never sees a dime of it.
|
Spreland
|
posted on August 30, 2000 08:56:54 PM new
uaru writes:
>This was in that announcement.
>"You can see whether a seller is Verified >on the confirmation page before you Send >Money or complete a payment. Please note >that the Guarantee does not apply when you >pay Unverified accounts."
Where did PayPal inform me that bidders would receieve a "unverified account" message when trying to send payment to my account?
|
jrscharton
|
posted on August 30, 2000 09:01:00 PM new
PayPal really blew it when they introduced the verification system. It should never have been tied to what amounted to permission to dip into your checking account.
I disagree with your opinion that PayPal blew it when they introduced the verification system. I think it's one of the smartest things they've done so far. And although you may believe that verifying your account amounted to permission to dip into your bank account, that would be incorrect. PayPal never had permission to "dip into your checking account" regardless of the wording.
It isn't just sellers who are declining to verify. I have a number of buyers who have stopped using PayPal because they don't want to verify.
I never had a problem over verifying my account. I did it right away, and have recommended it to everyone that asks me about it. I've also paid for auctions within the last couple of weeks, and all the sellers have been verified.
The whole mess could have been avoided if PayPal had separated verification and signing up for the ability to fund your account via electronic transfer from your checking account.
It's always been separated, but they have reworded it repeatedly for the users that need more clarification. Just because you verify your account, it does not mean that you give them blanket access to your account. It has always been user-initiated.
It will take a long time for this one to go away.
I don't think it will take long at all. And, I don't think PayPal will be the last online payment service that will require this kind of verification. At least I hope not.
edited for ubb
[ edited by jrscharton on Aug 30, 2000 09:01 PM ]
|
tuition44years
|
posted on August 30, 2000 09:16:18 PM new
I understand that it's not difficult to verify .. I just don't understand the need. I am unverified and have been receiving and paying for weeks that way .. no one has questioned it.
I had a $0 balance in my account last week and sent out payments anyway. How? Because they have my credit card number. If they can access my funds already, what more do they want? More importantly ... WHY?
_____
I have a memory like a steel trap .. unfortunately it's rusted shut!
|
