posted on November 6, 2000 12:57:16 AM new
Enough is enough.
When is Ebay finally going to require credit card verification for, if not ALL users, than certainly AOL users.
I would say about 95% of the auction interference and feedback bombing comes at the hands of AOL users, who, if NARUed, can so easily return in minutes with a brand new Ebay ID--thanks to the unlimited amount of e-mail names they can create using AOL.
Why can't at least AOL users be required to do this?
As a seller, whenever I have an AOL high bidder with a zero or low feedback, I always wonder if I'm going to end up getting jerked around.
It's a shame that so many other users have to be burdened by the BS perpetrated by reckless AOL users.
As a matter of fact, I can't think of any other positive reason for anyone to use AOL other than for creating many bogus ID's. They suck as an ISP. It seems like the only people able to get good connections are those screwing up Ebay auctions!
posted on November 6, 2000 01:13:18 AM newI can't think of any other positive reason for anyone to use AOL other than for creating many bogus ID's.
Funny you should mention that, stu5000.
From the Community Guidelines:
We reserve the right to immediately and permanently revoke any account that we believe was created by a suspended or revoked member, or any account that we believe was created for the sole purpose of disrupting the forum.
Your account has been revoked. You are welcome to appeal this decision by emailing [email protected]
posted on November 6, 2000 08:09:24 AM new
I agree Seyms. This board seems to be moderated more like a children's playground rather than a forum to exchange ideas. At the core of free exchange of ideas is allowing even those ideas you do not agree with to be a part of the exchange. The ideas will end up being the point of contention rather than a "moderator" shuting them out because of who posted them or the content.
This editing by the moderators for "personal attacks" is silly too. What adult would be offended by a personal attack on an internet BB ? I suppose some people might curl up in a ball and cry if they were called a SOB ? Freedom of ideas requires courage and weathering personal attacks. Moderators should be for spam and repetitious posts only.
Don't the people that run this board realize that adults MUST filter information for themselves in a free society - which includes having an adult constitution that can withstand a personal attack. Regardless if the messenger is a crackpot, crank, or Moses himself, this "moderator" stuff is quite ridiculous.
Could you imagine what would have happened if the American Revolution was moderated ?
posted on November 6, 2000 10:39:07 AM new
reamond ... I agree with you, philosophically anyway.
Like you, I do not agree with censorship or 3rd party moderation. I question the rules against posting auction specifics (it's very hard to take about an issue with a certain auction when you're not allowed to mention the auction or even provide a hint that some clever internet detective may be able to figure out), and the idea that it's OK if you invite the other party also does not make sense. A guilty buyer/seller will certainly not show up here to "defend" themselves. Therefore, we cannot warn each other about these shady operators.
OTOH, I do not agree with your idea that most adults can take a shot or two just because it's done on the internet. If even one "personal attack" is allowed to go unchecked, all hell will break loose. This forum will end up being nothing better than the so-called 'chat rooms' that are full of perverted little kids with nothing better to do than insult each other.
So, IMHO, > some < moderation is appreciated, but I think the rules need to be revisited to allow a little more discussion ...
posted on November 6, 2000 11:19:31 AM new
I really dont take offence to the post but however do disagree. I have yet to have a AOL deadbaet or no responders. I would say at least 25-30% of my auctions end with an AOL high bidder and have yet to deadbaet from AOL. I have had a total of 2 deadbaets and none were AOL users. I just dont get where you guys get that AOL users are any different from any other ISP. Given the hugh vast numbers of AOL users I could see where the may be a larger number of deadbeats. I would sure hate to have to sell without AOL users, I am sure we all see higher final values due to AOL users! If you were to knock out of the process such a large group I am sure you see a big difference in Final values. I am for verification of all users , not any one peticular group!
posted on November 6, 2000 12:19:58 PM new
If you use a free email service (like Hotmail) you do have to register with a credit card.
I think AOL should be treated the same way. Not because I don't like AOL - I do. But it is SO easy to create screen names on AOL, it's just invites abuse in systems like Ebay's.
Of course, there would be a huge backlash. In fact, the backlash would probably be bigger than the backlash if they just required everyone to verify with a credit card.
posted on November 6, 2000 12:47:50 PM new
I am also wondering about those hotmail accounts.
I just browsed a category that is usually (and still is) loaded with illegal items. I would say that at least 75% of these sellers have hotmail accounts with zero feedback and shades. The way their auctions are worded, it's obvious (to me) that some of these sellers are people who have been warned about their stuff by eBay under another one of their aliases, and have simply come back with a new ID.
You have to give some of these kids credit tho. They know eBay will cancel their auctions so they show their hotmail account as their user ID - anyone can contact them (don't need to be a member to find out their email addresses) and a lot of illegal biz can be done off eBay as a result. They're using eBay for free advertising - they get their listing fees credited when eBay cancels their auctions!
I think the only way eBay would be able to tell if these hotmailers have received previous warnings is via their CC numbers on file. Even if they could do this, which I doubt due to a lack of resources (they tell us all the time that they are unable to police their site), credit cards are just as easy to get these days as hotmail accounts - you don't even have to ask for them ... they just tend to show up in your mailbox
I don't know what the answer is, but it sure isn't "Dad's eBay" anymore ....
posted on November 6, 2000 01:13:24 PM new
I am not an expert in the legal field, but do have the opinion that AW can be held responsible for any negative posts and results of such posts.
As for posting specific auctions and user ids, I think this message center would be one big advertisement. I do however question why posters can put links up to their auctions and websites. I understand auctions that are in the public domain such as any auctions that are "in the news."
And if a user is identified and is bashed in public and their business is affected there can be lawsuits aglore, in my opinion.
I am glad stu5000 was banished apparently he/she had broken AWs policy. If I broke the guidelines, then I would need to accept punishment. Simple as that.
posted on November 6, 2000 02:28:26 PM new
I need to be punished too. I need moderators to discipline me when I'm naughty. Ooohhhh yeah......do me baby.
posted on November 6, 2000 09:17:03 PM new
I'm reading this long after the thread was started, but just in case:
1. AW is not the site for the American Revolution. It is a "host" for auction services, and happens to be gracious (and business wise) in allowing us a forum.
2. AW is a private entity and does not have to give us right to ANY speech, much less free speech.
3. The American Revolution was just that. The dissatisfied parties on this side of the pond, got tired of the English gov't and started their own. All you AW naysayers who would like to compare situations should simply devoid yourself of AW services and start your own website. The analogy is simple and straightfoward.
posted on November 7, 2000 04:40:03 AM new
There seems to be a lot of people that never studied the American Revolution past 8th grade history class.
The "moderators"/leaders of the Revolution were chosen by those whom they led. And it was a leaderless mob that started the physical defiance.
When you don't have the power to choose/recall/rebuff your "moderators" you have a dictatorship, which many frightened and timid people find to be a very nice way to live, nothing ventured, nothing gained, except the loss of your freedom. There are a group of these people in the former USSR attempting to bring back those good old days.
Moderators should be limited to spam, which would include posting one's auctions, repetititious posts, or off topic posts.
The "truth" of a post or its intergrity based on who posted it should be left up to the reader, not a moderator.
An ISP has no liability if an actionable statement is posted by a user, save under very narrow and circumspect initiatives. However, it is undecided that should an ISP supererogate this law through using moderators what liability may lie. Such as claiming "moderated" and not doing it consistently, posting a slander and/or liable when they do moderate, or claiming you're just a "venue" when in fact you exercise total control over everything that happens on the site.
It would be smarter to just blank the posting out rather than publicly posting your contentions.
The Community Guidelines require discussions concerning moderation take place in the Moderator's Corner. if you have any further comments concerning AW's moderation policy, you are welcome to post in that Forum. If you want to discuss the American Revolution, then I would suggest you take it to the Round Table.
As this thread is not auction related, I am locking it.
