posted on November 6, 2000 03:33:38 PM new
In four years on ebay, this has never happened to me but today I bid on a book that I had been looking for awhile. I bid on it about 20 seconds before auction closed. I recieved the following email from someone and I have pasted it in below (editing out language)
(The return email addy said "kill and my email address)
"How do YOU think you are????? 15 seconds before the end of the
auction you
make an offer... very very fair I have to say because I had no
chance of
making another offer to a book I am looking for many years...
DAMNED MOTHER______G BAST__D !!!!
Be warned... I will keep you in my eyes... and never sleep well
again !
--
Sent through GMX FreeMail - http://www.gmx.net
(end of quote)
So I dutifully forwarded it all to safe harbor just like your supposed to and I get a page that says "unfortunately ebay can not control private emails between members".....I thought this was what safe harbor was for???? I would appreciate some advice as to what to do next......I am going to assume that this came via anonymous email addy from the second highest bidder BUT I can't be sure and do not want to accuse. I also do not want to get into a flaming war with this person. His email address is MY email address with Kill in front of it. Any suggestions??????
posted on November 6, 2000 03:59:23 PM new
Get a big dog and a handgun.. Safe Harbor and ebay will give him your phone number for the asking... And if you gave your real phone # he will know where you live.. Aint EBay great?
posted on November 6, 2000 04:06:26 PM new
Perhaps what SafeHarbor 'should' have done was investigate this incident to the best of their ability and, if convincing evidence existed, revoked the other members access.
Not a be-all and end-all answer, but it would at least be SOME reasonable reaction by ebay concerning who they allow to use the site.
posted on November 6, 2000 04:13:22 PM new
well sg52...I don't know, BUT thats what one is told to do when there is problems >....Or so I have read. Having never dealt with this before it was a little unnerving. Since your a long time poster here .(I am merely a long time reader)....maybe you could give me some better advice as to what you would have done. In this day and age, its hard not to take threats a bit serious. It doesn't just happen to other people in the newspaper. And since ebay is so quick to give out contact info nowadays its something to be concerned about.
posted on November 6, 2000 04:33:36 PM new
Frankly, since it's soooooo easy to cut-and-paste headers, or even use a bogus ID in emails, that anybody could easily forge a "threatening" email and send it to ebay, I'm kinda glad they don't act on this sort of complaint.
Personal experience: a seller to whom I'd complained decided to forge MY ID to send emails to MY ebay customers. I only found out about it because he was such a dumb s*** that the "test" he sent got CC'd to me! (I was ROTFLMAO, believe me) So I used samspade.org to trace his IP - only to find out that he was sending these emails (and threatening ones to me) from his work PC - not exactly what his boss wanted to know about, particularly as it showed that he'd also been doing most of his ebay business on company time. So I contacted his boss - by phone. Lots of fun
Anyway, what if he'd cut-and-pasted my header into a bogus "threatening" email, and forwarded it on to SafeHarbor, complaining about me and demanding I be NARU'd? Geesh. Don't even want to think about that.
I was also threatened by another poster on AW (his tenure here lasted, oh, three days) -with litigation, and telling me "I can see you," "I know where you live," (duh - my pic and address are on my webpage), stuff like that. It was pretty easy to find out who he was, how old he was, where he lived, you name it. Sent all the info to the FBI. I also contacted the police precinct in his neighborhood. They said they couldn't act without being contacted by MY area police. So I called my cops. They told me that unless there is an explicit threat ("I am going to burn your house down" ) they can't act, but to keep in touch if any threats like that came down the pipe. When I emailed my "friend" thanking him hey, thanks for his last message and that I'd contacted his local police and the FBI....hmmm, no more "love letters".
You can spend your time wringing your hands and feeling helpless, or you can grow some backbone and stand these characters down.
BTW, does anybody know statistically just how many email threats actually turn into actual action on the part of the person making the threat?
[ edited by HartCottageQuilts on Nov 6, 2000 04:35 PM ]
posted on November 6, 2000 04:51:52 PM new
Some additional info...this person is DEFINITELY the second highest bidder. AND, they are evidently in Germany..as they have used a free email service comparable to our hotmail service.
When I tried to pull up this jerks bidder history I got a window from ebay stating that bidders history in Germany is private and cannot be divulged. so I can't tell if this is a common practice for them. It seems strange to me (from what I have read )that when you sell an item that someone objects to that the Vero is all over it and takes care of it immediately but if you are threatened then its your problem. Whats wrong with this picture??
Well the fact that he is in Germany is a plus as I feel a bit safer BUT there is nothing to stop them from interfering with my auctions etc etc etc or just plain harassment. Guess its my turn on the hot plate, I have had a fairly uneventful 4 years on ebay....
posted on November 6, 2000 05:22:00 PM newIn this day and age, its hard not to take threats a bit serious.
If you feel physically threatened, call the police.
I'm not sure how you found out that your "friend" is definitely the 2nd place bidder. The problem from safeharbor's point of view is that they cannot launch investigations of "logical suspects" based on no evidence other than such status. They no doubt DID confirm that the header you sent them did not conclusively point to 2nd place bidder.
I don't doubt your analysis of what has likely happened. I think you encountered some newbie who didn't understand sniping and took offense, lashing out to punish his tormentor.
I confess. Your story illustrates one reason I bid with an account with 100% phoney contact info, although I know it's against eBay rules.
posted on November 6, 2000 06:14:49 PM new. It seems strange to me (from what I have read )that when you sell an item that someone objects to that the Vero is all over it and takes care of it immediately but if you are threatened then its your problem. Whats wrong with this picture??
I don't think the comparison is apt - kinda like "They can put a man on the moon but they can't cure the common cold." One isn't directly related to the other.
Ebay involves itself in VERO issues because by knowingly permitting sales of infringing items through its site (and benefiting financially from those infringing sales), it's leaving itself open to civil litigation by the copyright holders.
The "threat" to which you refer isn't even considered as such by (at least my) local authorities; therefore ebay has no liability in the matter.
Your complaint should be registered with the service through which the email was sent.
For example, Yahoo's TOS read in part:
"You agree to not use the Service to: a. upload, post, email, transmit or otherwise make available any Content that is unlawful, harmful, threatening, abusive, harassing, tortious, defamatory, vulgar, obscene, libelous, invasive of another's privacy, hateful, or racially, ethnically or otherwise objectionable..."
Your sender MIGHT be considered in violation of his services TOS, and they'd cancel his account.
Yeah, yeah, I know: he can just open a new one. But wouldn't that be true if Ebay NARU'd him, too?
[ edited by HartCottageQuilts on Nov 6, 2000 06:15 PM ]
posted on November 6, 2000 07:31:46 PM new
(disclaimer: This is not legal advice and I am not an attorney, this is just my opinion.)
Even if a jurisdiction was interested in taking an e-mail threat more seriously, eBay would still rather not get involved unless law enforcement forces them to. Active involvement by eBay would increase its potential exposure to liability.
eBay is only involved in copyright policing because a combination of private businesses/political forces/law enforcement forced them to, and even then it leaves most of the actual copyright enforcement to private parties.
Some good advice has already been given about contacting the authorities. BTW, I would not be so sure the party was actually in Germany. There are ways of getting free e-mail etc. to make it look like you are from a place when you're not, and obviously someone planning to make threats would like to keep his or her info private---and what better way to do that than to use a service from a jurisdiction that protects privacy.
________
I never had one, and I didn't want one, and I don't, so now I do...
posted on November 7, 2000 06:02:35 AM new
What is the title of the book- I should like to get some inventory that people fight over. LOL.
If someone is serious about coming to "get" you, they won't be sending an email announcing their intentions. But it does sometimes happen between battling spouses, or in romantic entanglements.
These emails are to make you afraid. If you are afraid, they've succeeded.
Also remember, the person on the other side of that Net connection has no idea what is on your end. This "threatening" person may find a bigger nut when he comes calling.
However, it appears eBay may have to re-think giving out contact information in the manner they presently do.
posted on November 7, 2000 06:52:59 AM new
Having been the victim of telephone harrasment in the past, there is no way I would put my home telephone number anywhere on the internet. However, I found a website that offered a solution. ThinkLink.com gives you a toll-free number that is free to set up, no monthly fees, and 10 cents a minute if someone calls it. The number can go into their web-based voicemail or be forwarded to your home phone. They also offer some other services that may come in handy later, but I mainly wanted to keep my private number private. I'm now using my TL number for all internet registrations that require a phone number.
In your case getting a Thinklink number and changing your ebay contact info may give you some security.
posted on November 7, 2000 06:55:44 AM new
There is something you can do - send a copy of the email with it's headers to his ISP and tell them this person is harassing you. Most ISPs will not allow a user to email someone who tells them not to. He will probably find his account canceled.
posted on November 7, 2000 03:07:13 PM new
Well, so do we, but it's not to protect ourselves from irritated ebayers.
Since so many people seem to be worried about this sort of thing, I'm sure somebody can answer the question I asked earlier: Statistically, just how many of these vague email threats are actually followed by some sort of physical action on the threatener's part?
posted on November 7, 2000 08:30:35 PM new
Hi again....I want to thank everyone for their help....I did want to state that I am not AS concerned about this wacko coming after me personally (hubby is a federal cop so I feel somewhat safer...although the word KILL is a bit strong.) however what I am concerned about more is him messing with my auctions or ebay bids(which I suppose would get ebay to notice.......) I have had some acquaintances that sell on ebay that got someone pis___d at them and they really wreaked havoc with their bidders etc...in one case the jerk bid thousands of dollars on this guys low priced stuff and left him hanging...it got so bad that he ended up leaving ebay. I did contact my harassers ISP and its a German free web based email, much like our hotmail. Interestingly enough, ANY of us could sign up for that email acct as I understand it. And then, Ebay will not even give out the bid history because it then falls under German law....which protects their info under the German Privacy Law. Just FYI. Anyway, this board is great, I have learned so much from the regulars pro and con....Hugs to all.
posted on November 8, 2000 07:17:55 AM new
Hi. I just thought that you should know that I also had a bidder from "Germany". When there was no response to my EOA email, I tried to pull the contact info, only to be told it was private. When this person finally did contact me, it was an address in the US. I thought that maybe the winner was having the package sent to a friend or relative...but when the check arrived, it was from the winner and the address on the check was indeed..the USA. I asked the person why their contact info said Germany. She said that she was afraid of her ex-husband finding her address and comimg after her!!! It seems that the way you can insure privacy is by signing on to a German account.
so I can't tell if this is a common practice for them. It seems strange to me (from what I have read )that when you sell an item that someone objects to that the Vero is all over it and takes care of it immediately but if you are threatened then its your problem. Whats wrong with this picture??