bobbysoxer
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posted on December 26, 2000 02:11:05 AM new
I was just searching eBay for a specific word and came upon several auctions from the same seller that when I used my "find" option with my webtv for the search word on the auction it was not found. Mmmmmm.......
I then "highlighted" to find any same colored words against the background. >Nada<
I decided to apply a method to retreive the html for the auction site. Low and behold I found the word designated as a keyword with html hiding it.
What do ya'll think? Should I report it?
I know it is against eBay's policy.
not bobbysoxer on eBay
[email protected]
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koto1
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posted on December 26, 2000 04:05:02 AM new
Well...I guess it depends on how irritated you were with seeing all the unrelated auctions pop up.
Yes, it's against eBay's rules, but do you want to play private detective for eBay?
Happy holidays!!
"Who's tending the bar? Sniping works up a thirst"
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abacaxi
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posted on December 26, 2000 05:11:20 AM new
bobbysoxer - It depends on how annoyed you are at the time their hidden keywords wasted in your search.
I found one seller of run-of-the-mill doodads who had about 300 words "hidden" as white text ... most of them had nothing at all to do with the item being sold, they were just trying to attract peripheral searches.
After running into the umpteenth item of theirs and not being able to block the results without blocking what I was really looking for, I forwarded the auction to to my "friend" at timesensitive. They were ordered to clean up their act and no longer clutter my screen.
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uaru
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posted on December 26, 2000 05:27:40 AM new
I'd forward the auction number to EBay. I use the search to find the items I want, if everyone practiced such tactics the search feature would be completely useless. I play by the rules I don't see any reason someone else should be exempt.
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barrelracer
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posted on December 26, 2000 08:10:10 AM new
I usually refuse to be an ebay spy, and see many auctions doing things ebay has told me "no-no"
BUT I have reported hidden keyword spammers. I feel they are calling the rest of us sellers fools, and cluttering up auction searches that are hurting all sellers.
~Not barrelracer on ebay, don't pick on them!~
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bobbysoxer
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posted on December 26, 2000 10:44:08 AM new
Thanks for all the input!
I think I might send the info to safeharbor because I think the seller is purposely leering people into the auctions.
In my opinion it would be one thing if the seller didn't intentionally mislead potential bidders such as myself and another
when it is intentional. In my opinion the key word is "intent" of the seller.
I am also considering "new" people who aren't aware of "hidden" words.
Who knows maybe the seller got caught hidding the words against the background and is now using the html.
Thanks once again!
not bobbysoxer on eBay
[email protected]
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codasaurus
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posted on December 26, 2000 11:51:43 AM new
Hello BobbySoxer,
I've reported several sellers who keyword "spammed". It doesn't really matter whether they just list the words outright or if they try to hide them by using white text.
These sellers are breaking the rules set down by eBay and whether intentional or unintentional the effect keyword spamming has on everyone is bad.
eBay has not suspended sellers who keyword spam unless they are repeated offenders and have ignored prior warnings.
So I suggest you report the seller to safeharbor. If they are newcomers or simply broke the rules from ignorance then eBay will most likely warn them. This should clear up the problem. And if it doesn't then they will continue to break the rules intentionally and deserve a stiffer penalty.
I would also advise that you not try to directly send the seller a friendly warning. I did this once and the seller retaliated by bidding me up on auctions I was interested in.
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bobbysoxer
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posted on December 26, 2000 12:18:15 PM new
codasaurus
Thanks for the tip! It didn't occur to me to email the seller but now that you mentioned it that would be the last thing I would do. The possible retaliation would be disatrous.
I have passed the auction onto safeharbor and will keep ya'll informed as to what develops.
not bobbysoxer on eBay
[email protected]
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bobbysoxer
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posted on December 26, 2000 03:58:44 PM new
I received a reply from safeharbor and they warned the seller against any future
occurrence of Keyword Spamming.
Now the question is do I monitor the person to ensure they adhere to eBay's policy?
not bobbysoxer on eBay
[email protected]
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njrazd
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posted on December 26, 2000 04:07:50 PM new
bobbysoxer...if you continue to use the Search feature, you will soon know if the seller has cleaned up his auctions.
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bobbysoxer
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posted on December 26, 2000 04:41:04 PM new
njrazd
Thanks but the seller may be just selling something they acquired recently not on a regular basis. So the next item the word may be one that I don't search (the one I was searching was one that I search every 6 months or so not very often).
I do have the auction saved that I forwarded to eBay so I -if I so choose do so- can see if he/she changes their html in that particular auction.
I haven't bothered to see if their other auctions have the html keyword spamming in the description. They have a good number of items and I don't have the time to look through all of their auctions.
Hopefully they will clean up their act. I suspect that they may have used the same color trick and got caught so they used the html. With this warning maybe they will just quit doing it if my suspicions are correct.
not bobbysoxer on eBay
[email protected]
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Biffette
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posted on December 27, 2000 02:16:34 AM new
Bobbysoxer: I'm somewhat new to the auction biz and can't figure out what you mean by hidden keywords in the HTML? I have once or twice had an auction show up in a search that was unrelated to the search I entered but didn't understand how it happened? Thought it was just a glitch. I think I understand about the color of text (if it's same as background, it won't show up to the "naked eye" right?) But I don't get how that would be used to do anything illegal like spamming (do I sound dumb or WHAT?)
I am trying to learn and teach myself HTML and am concerned about the illegalities possibly involved with it and that I may inadvertently do something in my ignorance, that would not be allowed. Thanks from a wet-behind-the-ears-newbie!!!
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twinsoft
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posted on December 27, 2000 03:38:52 AM new
The issue is keyword spamming. Don't put any keywords in your description that are unrelated to the item and you'll be fine. If you're selling Brand X wristwatches, then "looks just like a Rolex" is keyword spamming because that phrase snags people who are looking for Rolexes.
The ones who are sophisticated enough to hide the text by making it the same color as the background should be given a week's suspension for a first offense, then a month, then bye-bye. Hopefully they'll use the opportunity to go back and finish the sixth grade.
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abacaxi
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posted on December 27, 2000 04:55:13 AM new
Biffette -
None of the usual HTML code can cause accidental keyword spamming.
However, if someone DELIBERATELY conceals the keywords with font color or inside image tags or other HTML structures, that is clear evidence of premeditation and they should get more than a warning.
If eBay programmed its database to find all font color=white tags, I wonder how many people would get caught with exposed keywords.
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bobbysoxer
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posted on December 27, 2000 09:30:42 AM new
In the the html that I found from the auction site that was and still is running, contained the word "keyword" which identified the word that I was searching in eBay, but was blocked from the description in the normal viewing of the auction.
The html that would not be accidental so you wouldn't mistakenly put it in. You would >know< that you are committing "keyword spamming."
BTW the seller did revise that particular auction and other same keyword auctions. I also went through the other auctions by the same seller and found "similar" items that were revised at about the same time as the original auction. Which leads me to think that the "similar" auctions contained another keyword other than the one I was searching.
not bobbysoxer on eBay
[email protected]
[ edited by bobbysoxer on Dec 27, 2000 09:32 AM ]
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mark090
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posted on December 27, 2000 10:06:11 AM new
Best place to hide keywords is the META tags....totally invisible unless you use "View Page Source".
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bobbysoxer
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posted on December 27, 2000 10:19:19 AM new
mark090
I was trying to avoid in making this a "how to" keyword spam. But yes META was used by the seller.
Word to the wise, please don't use keyword spamming or someone will find ya and report ya. It will catch up to ya.
not bobbysoxer on eBay
[email protected]
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violetta
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posted on December 27, 2000 02:57:04 PM new
Aside from keyword spamming... I don't think that hidden text is very bad thing to do. I have used it a few times when a key word is commonly misspelled. That way, a person searching for "cobolt" or "cobold" will still find my auction with the word spelled correctly (cobalt). I am fussy about my presentation -- I feel that correct spelling and grammar make my auctions look more appealing -- so I cannot bear to put the typo in it on purpose. So I slip it (the common typos) in using the same colored text as the background. Doing that isn't wrong, is it?
Violetta
(Not known by this nickname anywhere but here.)
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ozwaxc
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posted on December 27, 2000 03:38:18 PM new
violetta
I once did something similar when I was auctioning off a vintage African American cookbook. I used "African American" in the title and description and used other terms that might be used to search in white font, so someone searching for one of those terms would find the auction but not see the word.
Since it was related to the auction, I assume that was ok also
Karen
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athena1365
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posted on December 27, 2000 03:45:05 PM new
Yes, it is wrong. And, no, it is not o.k. If it is related to your auction, then use it in the description.
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violetta
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posted on December 27, 2000 08:10:21 PM new
Athena1365 -- Are you responding to me? (If so, you don't seem to have comprehended what I said.) What I'm referring to IS related to my auction. Say if I'm selling a cobalt blue vase. If you look for a cobolt blue vase, you wouldn't find it. But there is no sense in making my auction look shabby just to make your typo work in search. That's why I'd put it in hidden text. But that is NOT keyword spamming. Hidden text is part of the description and is not inherently wrong -- if not being used to deceive. And it is definitely related to my auction. (Cobalt is one of the most commonly misspelled words that I see on ebay.)
Violetta
(Not known by this nickname anywhere but here.)
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barrelracer
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posted on December 27, 2000 08:14:23 PM new
Does ebay prohibit any hidden words? Or just hidden keyword spamming?
I could see violetta's point about the misspelled words.
~Not barrelracer on ebay, don't pick on them!~
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athena1365
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posted on December 27, 2000 09:56:33 PM new
Yes, violetta, I was responding in part to you, and I "comprehend" exactly what you are saying. You don't think hidden text is a bad thing since auction viewers "could" be bad spellers. Illiteracy aside, hidden text is keyword spamming and is against eBay rules:
"Hidden Text. HTML included in the listing, such as hidden text [for example "white on white"] or source tags [meta or header tags] are not permitted." Source: http://pages.ebay.com/help/community/png-wordspam.html
[ edited by athena1365 on Dec 27, 2000 09:57 PM ]
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violetta
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posted on December 28, 2000 03:34:50 AM new
Oh, OK. I didn't realize that ebay specifically prohibited hidden text. Thanks! It appears to me that they prohibit hidden text because it has been used to keyword spam. (However, the use I described is not keyword spamming. But I will avoid using hidden text.)
Violetta
(Not known by this nickname anywhere but here.)
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hkkozera
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posted on December 28, 2000 04:56:54 AM new
I have seen several listings where the Keywords were listed at the bottom of the listing in smaller (but readable) text. Using a previous example, it would look like this:
Keywords: cobolt blue vase
Is this allowed on eBay as long as it is related to the listing?
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mark090
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posted on December 28, 2000 07:22:19 AM new
I sometimes use the META tags and keywords for other reasons. For Example, I once listed quite a few Movie Posters. In the Meta Tags I placed my user ID and "Movie Poster". Then in the body of the auction I had the link, "My other Movie Poster Auctions" , which linked to a search in the "body of the description" for My ID and Movie Posters. The results being only my movie poster auction and nothing else to distract them.
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