posted on December 26, 2000 10:35:11 AM new
Got this one this morning from "Emmett" (eBay SafeHarbour). I have edited it to conform with AW Guidelines and have added my comments in square brackets where I feel an explanation is needed:
The differentiation between your statement and the link to a store is a matter of eBay policy. If you look at http://pages.ebay.com/help/community/png-list.html, it states Users may not use systems or techniques to circumvent eBay fees. Some examples include: Offering in a listing the opportunity to purchase the item or other merchandise outside of eBay.
It allows refers to what links are not permissible:
Users may place
- a simple link to another web page in the description portion of their listing
- a link to a listing to help provide more information about the listed item.
However, the following links are not permitted:
- links to other auction-style trading sites
- links to sites offering the same merchandise for the same or lower price
- links to sites offering merchandise prohibited on eBay
According to those policies, your items were in violation. Had you had all of your items listed on another site, you would be able to link to that site providing the items listed there are listed at a higher cost than those listed on eBay.
[I included a statement in my listing that I have several similar items available, and if interested, to contact me. My problem with eBay is they allow references to web sites in their listings which offer similar items for sale. The fact that I do not have the desire, nor the expertise to operate a web site that I can point to in a listing has resulted in this punishment from eBay!!]
I have included a copy of another one of your recently closed items which stated, "LOOKERS - eBay has been canceling my legitimate auctions due to interference from another member. Therefore, THIS AUCTION MAY END AT ANY TIME. If you are seriously interested in this item, please print
the listing so you can contact me in the event it is ended by eBay before you have an opportunity to place a bid. Thanks ..."
That is a direct sale;
[it is also a fact that eBay have been canceling my auctions solely on the advice of other members .. NO investigations were actually carried out!. And, again, the item was NOT a prohibited item. As a matter of fact, I have notified eBay about two sellers who have listed and sold several times (one has just been listed again on their site!) HOMEMADE COPIES of the item I listed (that I purchased directly from Columbia House and have the invoices to prove it). Finally, it would not have been a 'direct sale' if eBay hadn't of misapplied their rules by ending it early!!]
This item also states, "You are bidding on the XXX "Viewing Cassette - Not For Air" tape of "XXXXXXXX" which appears to be
offering similar potentially infringing items which were previously removed on your account which led to your suspension.
[this is a legal, studio produced and labeled tape that I own!!!. And, there's that dreaded word 'potentially' again ...]
At the time of your suspension we had asked, "Should you have written documentation from the content owners regarding the following items, please fax that to us at 413.208.2360.
[why should I bother? eBay has already canceled the auctions and damaged my reputation. Essentially, they convicted and punished me BEFORE they asked for this documentation. Instead, I have contacted Columbia House and my contact at the MPAA Anti-Piracy Department to contact "Emmett" directly - he's obviously not getting it!!]
In response to you stating, "eBay is still showing a very strong "You're guilty until you can prove yourself innocent" philosophy here as evidenced in you're asking me to provide proof that my rights to sell
are OK ... AFTER you have canceled my auctions!" this was done since you
had had similar items removed previously for which we asked for documentation, yet never received any.
Should we receive written documentation from you, we will be able notate your account that you have permission to list these items and would reinstate the listings and notify the bidders the items were removed in error.
[see above ...]
Unfortunately, though at this time we have yet to receive anything from you, thus your other items were removed and you account has since been suspended indefinitely.
If you would like to report other items for us to investigate, you can write to us directly at: [email protected]
[Believe me "Emmett", I will ... with copies to the copyright owners and the MPAA. It will be interesting to see how you try to weasel out of their orders to cease the auctions that you have already been told about, and for which you refuse to take any action on]
posted on December 26, 2000 10:44:23 AM new
And your point is? Sounds like ebay made the right call to me. They need to put a stop to questionable auctions and then IF you can prove you have a right to have those auctions, you can relist them. The rest of your diatribe sounds like " I never do anything wrong,it's the other sellers and them."
Ain't Life Grand...
posted on December 26, 2000 10:50:46 AM new
I can totaly sympahtize with rb here. Lemme poitn soemthing out to you 12pole and anyone else. Every time eBay does *ANYTHING* to an auction,whether cancel unwarranted from vero, move catagory unwarranted, or end unwarranted it's an "infraction" Build up 3 and you lose accnt 30 days. one more and it's perm. Now this is a problem because competitors are making up reasons to get infractions on other sellers and playing on the dumbess of ebay employees with regard to thier knowledge of the rules in an effort to get thier competiton blacklisted off eBay.
posted on December 26, 2000 10:52:14 AM new
I agree with Twelvepole...sounds like a case of not taking responsibility for your actions and wanting to blame someone else.
posted on December 26, 2000 10:57:19 AM new
Well maybe RB didnt do all he could have to take responsibilty, but you know what? Even if he did he would be in the same position now. I can persoanly testify to the ignorance and triggerhappyness and willingness to end/suspend people of ebay sellers, just on what is essentialy demands from competitors
posted on December 26, 2000 11:12:50 AM new
twelvepole and amy ... I understand what you are trying to say, and according to eBay policy, 'my bad', and I deserved my suspension (bo hoo). It's the policies that need a little work, I'd say - they should be brought more in line with the real world and real law
But, in spte of this, can either of you justify eBay's canceling of an auction without contacting the lister first to obtain proof of legality? If I accused either one of you of committing a crime, the news would probably make page 1. If I later conduct an investigation and determine that I was in error, the retraction (apology) might make page 17. The damage is already done ... just ask that security guard who was accused of planting a bomb. His life was wrecked.
While eBay is not nearly as important, the fact that they canceled my auctions without talking to me or asking for proof first has given me a black mark beside my name. The people I used to deal with on eBay are a small group and they tend to avoid people with black marks!
It may also interest you to know that my item recently canceled by eBay (the straw) was for the original Columbia House 10 tape collection of a 19 hour cult tv series. It was for a total of all 10 tapes with the original covers, labeling, etc. If you know anything about the Columbia House re-tv Collectors Series, you know the quality and cost of these. I have the CH invoices proving that I am the first purchaser of these tapes. There are two regular sellers of this same teevee series who have sold their tapes several times on eBay. One of these sellers claims he got his 2-tape set from a person in Montreal (who got the French version), yet he has sold the same set at least 3 times during the past 6 months. The other seller has sold her 3 tape set a few times, and has listed it again today. "Emmett" has been told about these two sellers at least 7 times during the past 6 months and he has refused to take any action.
Whether I am right or not, whether you sympathise with me or not, can either of you justify this??
posted on December 26, 2000 11:40:37 AM new
RB, you clearly violated eBay policy several different ways. This isn't only about copyrights. You also attempted to circumvent eBay's fees by advertising sales to your web site.
"Copy my email address so if eBay ends this auction you can contact me directly."
Oh, come on. Do you seriously expect eBay to allow that?
As far as copyrights, just because a tape is studio produced doesn't mean it is legal for resale. Promotional items are prohibited by eBay. When eBay asked for more information your response was "why should I bother?" No wonder they canned you.
Regarding your above post, I don't think your life is ruined. You're not getting much sympathy from me either. This isn't a matter of absolute "right" and "wrong," it's a matter of understanding and complying with eBay policy. Your customers will understand. Send eBay the information they requested, stop trying to circumvent the fees, and you will be allowed to sell your warez.
ed123, eBay has no reason to favor one seller over another. When a seller gets caught, the defense of "everybody does it" doesn't work.
posted on December 26, 2000 11:54:49 AM new
twinsoft ... please read what I said! I do NOT have a web site, nor do I have any desire to create one. My problem is that eBay policy allows a user to point to a web site that offers similar products for sale, yet they won't allow someone to point to their own email address for similar offerings. I'm sorry, but I just don't get this
As to promotional items, you're legally right but eBay wrong (apparently). You may recall my threads about the number of Emmy Consideration tapes being sold on eBay, and how these are definitely outlawed by eBay policy (the one you have referenced), yet eBay refuses to end any of these auctions (there are currently 123 items that fit this category listed and going strong on eBay right now). So, what makes 'my' studio released tapes any different that 'those' studio released tapes???
For me, it was a case of "monkey see, monkey do". I saw eBay not taking any actions against the Emmy tape sellers and assumed that "what's good for the goose, is also good for the gander." False logic maybe, but for the life of me I cannot figure out where the fault is
Lastly, I have explained to eBay that I am not interested in being un-suspended. I know my life (and items) are OK without eBay!
posted on December 26, 2000 12:00:01 PM new
Twinsoft: How dare you accuse me of violating eBay rules and then using the dfense of everybody does it. I never did such a thing. Read my thread, "What to do when eBay suspends". What is happening is competitors are reporting auctions with NO violations as HAVING violations and clueless new employees are adding infractions to sellers records for no reason!
posted on December 26, 2000 12:09:46 PM new
ed123 ... I believe twinsoft knows this ... he has had the same thing to some of his software auctions ... ended by unhappy competitors simply via an email to Safeharbour.
But, again, there is NO CONSISTENCY in how eBay applies their rules.
How can their members be expected to toe the line and be fine, upstanding eBay citizens when the line keeps moving
posted on December 26, 2000 12:10:11 PM new
RB, like I said, this isn't about "right" and "wrong." It's about understanding and complying with policy. When eBay ends an auction, they send the seller a warning not to relist. If the sellers says, "screw you, I'm going to list it anyway" then the seller risks suspension. Your actions displayed a lack of finesse (and that's the politest way I can put it).
I don't know how long you've been at eBay, but "everybody does it" seldom works to get your auctions reinstated. You sell questionable items, flaunted eBay policy and ignored SafeHarbor's instructions. You have an easy out here but your attitude is clearly "why should I bother?" You brought this on yourself.
posted on December 26, 2000 12:17:11 PM new
Ed123, I didn't accuse you of anything. But I would like to know where you get your information about "three/four infractions." I've been selling at eBay more than three years and I am unaware of any such rule.
The plain rule is that if SafeHarbor ends an auction (for any reason) and the seller relists it, DESPITE SafeHarbor's warning, then the seller risks suspension.
In your other threads, you seem so concerned with your copyrights; I find it surprising you are so quick to support another seller offering "questionable" items for sale. After a while it just sounds like more eBay-bashing.
I've been trying to avoid the "S" word, but relisting a cancelled auction is just STUPID.
posted on December 26, 2000 12:19:59 PM new
I dont know. He may be violating copyright, but eBay cant seem to prove it and he seems to be providing a legitiamate explanation. In any case, I am sympathizing with how eBay handled him, not him himself.
posted on December 26, 2000 12:22:29 PM new
twinsoft ... my second attempt at listing was for something totally different than the first one. The first one was for a studio released pilot tape of a series that never made it to the airwaves and that I had received directly from the producing studio; the second was for a set of Columbia House tapes of a cult sci-fi series that was identified by a single letter towards the end of the alphabet
It would be like you getting a warning about selling a ripped CD of Microsoft Word, then getting suspended a month later when you list the real version, only in my case, I have NEVER listed ANYTHING that is illegal, or even 'potentially' illegal ...
I am convinced that my auctions have been ended and my account suspended simply as a result of an email or two from an unhappy competitor sent to SafeHarbour. Further, policy or not, do you agree with the way eBay ends auctions without checking (investigating) first? If you do, then please point me to a couple of your auctions - I'll have you kicked off in a jiffy
posted on December 26, 2000 12:43:39 PM new
RB, I'm sorry I assumed you had relisted an auction. Despite that, SafeHarbor has offered to reinstate you if you'll just demonstrate that your item is legal. All that is BESIDE THE POINT since you violated eBay policy repeatedly in other ways, such as inviting customers to purchase from you directly.
I don't know if there's more going on here than meets the eye, or if it's just karma coming back to bite you on the ass. I read your comments in another thread about copying and trading tapes being legal. Just because the recording industry doesn't go after every little tape trader doesn't make it "okay," though I'm sure you can find some legal eagles that will tell you otherwise. The idea that the recording industry sits down to tea with bootleggers is, in my opinion, bogus.
If I were undecided on this one, your vindictive attitude of punishing eBay (or me, for that matter) for your own mistakes would decide the matter. I'm sure you realize that the recording and software industries DO put pressure on eBay regarding counterfeits. Setting aside the copyright issues AND the other policy violations, SafeHarbor has provided you an easy out and I hope you will take it and stop adding to the number of eBay martyrs in these forums.
posted on December 26, 2000 12:54:23 PM new
twinsoft ... No, eBay has told me that they will not reinstate me under any conditions. This is a quote from "Emmett"'s email of this morning:
"Should we receive written documentation from you, we will be able notate
your account that you have permission to list these items and would
reinstate the listings and notify the bidders the items were removed in
error.
Unfortunately, though at this time we have yet to receive anything from
you, thus your other items were removed and your account has since been suspended indefinitely."
[anyone other than me see the contradiction in these two statements? This was the order that "Emmett" made them in his missle to me! They will reinstate my listings, but I am suspended indefinitely!!!]
I need some support here guy, and even though ED123 may not like "me", he's in the same boat trying to make a point. Before you head off to work, do you wanna take me up on my offer that I can have at least one of your auctions ended and your account suspended with a simple email to SafeHarbour? You deal in stuff that skirts the border (in the minds of the uninformed, that is) the same as I do, and even though I don't know much about the legalities of selling software, I'm pretty sure I can dazzle the SafeHarbour brats with enough BS so it should be pretty easy for me to convince them that you're just as bad as I am
posted on December 26, 2000 12:57:47 PM new
and he can (or me too) I have twinsofts id and dont belive in narquing people out, but I could do the same thing. And if someone wanted to place a bet with me that i couldnt find some way to get one of his auctions ended, I guarentee I would win it.
posted on December 26, 2000 12:58:43 PM new
and I don't not "like" you RB, I am just not particuarly knowledable in the field of what you do, so I can't state definitively that I know you are doing nothing wrong. Thats all
posted on December 26, 2000 01:28:14 PM new
RB, apparently don't understand the difference between "indefinitely" and "permanently." Indefinite suspension means you can be reinstated at any time.
I also find the suggestion of making false accusations to SafeHarbor (made by you and Ed123) in an effort to blackball a seller for sport to be despicable. I suggest you both get off that topic before I find it necessary to take action myself.
If I haven't made it clear in the past, I will restate it here. I personally disagree with some aspects of copyright law. I have sold bootlegged concert tapes. All of which has nothing to do with the point, which is compliance with eBay policy (whether or not I agree with it).
posted on December 26, 2000 01:31:27 PM newRB: "My problem with eBay is they allow references to web sites in their listings which offer similar items for sale."
The policy is for a simple link - "please visit my website." A link such as "visit my website for other Gadgets and Gizmos" would be disallowed the same way as your "email me for other Gadgets and Gizmos" link was. It's not only where a clickable link goes, it's how it's worded.
As to your account being reinstated, I think you're misinterpreting what you quoted to twinsoft. It reads to me like if you prove that the auctions were unfairly removed (as far as copyright goes), they'll reinstate you. You haven't proved it yet, so you're suspended.
You've said there was no investigation - but there was; Emmett obviously read the auction descripiton. Their investigative responsibility for auction content covers what is written in the auction itself; they don't have to check into your background, interview your neighbors, or discuss it with you. It is the seller's responsibility to make the text as unambiguous and clear as possible. Frankly, if an eBay rep is going to misinterpret the words in an auction, then so are most of the people who are potential bidders. Example, you described one of the tapes as "Not For Air." Personally, I'd have thought it had been stolen from that phrasing, though apparently I'd have been wrong.
"I have notified eBay about two sellers ..." RB, "they're getting away with it but I'm not," won't hold up, not in court, not on eBay, and not in conversation Just 'cause one person doesn't get caught doesn't mean they weren't doing something wrong. And if another person got caught for doing the same thing as the first person, it doesn't make the second person worse than the first, or the first better than the second.
posted on December 26, 2000 01:43:27 PM new
Twinsoft, I have no intention of tryin to shoot down your auctions, nor does rb I think. We were merely tryign to illustrate that you are wrong in that it is not possible to do this. Ebay staff are, for the most part, ignorant to the acutal rules of eBay and will trust someone emailing them. That is all we were trying to illustrate.
posted on December 26, 2000 03:31:04 PM new
Comparing a LEGAL aspect to an eBay shut down, doesn't deserve any justification. It is eBay's site and if you get caught breaking their rules, then you pay their price.
It just makes me sick when supposed grownups use the excuse that "others are doing it". Look, I believe if and when they get caught they will pay the price too. If you have a competitor watching your auctions for violations, well I guess you need to make sure of your position before listing.
Ebay shouldn't allow the auction to continue running if there is a question to it's correctness.
Of course from reading some of the threads you and ed post, I would say that you have brought some of this attention to yourselves.
posted on December 26, 2000 03:40:16 PM new
Gee, I think 12 pole needs to learn how to read, don't you RB? If you read this thread or my threads you would know that I AM NOT VIOLATING ANY RULES OR USING THE DEFENSE THAT OTHERS ARE DOING IT SO I SHOULD NOT BE PENALIZED. My point is I do things that violate NO rules yet competitors claim rules are being violated and dumb 18 yr old ebay techs believe them and shut down auctions.
posted on December 26, 2000 03:58:17 PM new
twinsoft ...
> RB, apparently don't understand the difference between "indefinitely" and "permanently." Indefinite suspension means you can be reinstated at any time.
Apparently not, but it doesn't matter. They can call it anything they want. I have politely told eBay that unless, or until they exercise their policies equally across the board, and get off their "guilty until proven innocent" kick, I am not interested in being reinstated on their venue.
Unfortunately, the type of item I deal in will always be subject to interpretation of copyright laws. eBay does not have the knowledge to be able to correctly interpret these laws. Even though their legal staff have stated portions of such law on their site (the part you referenced), their SafeHarbour brats still haven't been able to apply it properly.
At the very least, I believe they should contact a seller, advise that there is a concern about an item, then give the seller 24 hours to respond with proof (AW does this and it seems to work). If the seller does not respond, end the auction. If the seller does respond with proof, then no harm done to the seller's reputation, his standing in the eBay Community, or to those who may have placed a bid.
> I also find the suggestion of making false accusations to SafeHarbor (made by you and Ed123) in an effort to blackball a seller for sport to be despicable.
I agree and I would never do this in spite, for sport or to get even with someone. I will continue, however, to report the auctions that I know are illegal using my expertise, knowledge and my 16+ years of experience doing what I do. I was simply trying to make a point that it can and does happen, and that in many cases, it has nothing to do with the item or even the seller. It is an arbritray decision made by someone at eBay who would probably be stuck for an answer if you said "Good Morning" to them.
> I suggest you both get off that topic before I find it necessary to take action myself.
Well, go for it then This is a topic that will keep coming up until eBay does something about it. I figure the more people that I can get to talk about it, the more influence it will have on eBay.
I still believe eBay is the best of a bad lot out there, but until YOU have been personally mistreated by them, and YOU have tried to deal with their policy decisions by making factual statements that get ignored, no amount of ranting from me or anyone else is going to change YOUR mind.
Call it eBay bashing if you like ... 'cause that is exactly what it is.
> If I haven't made it clear in the past, I will restate it here. I personally disagree with some aspects of copyright law. I have sold bootlegged concert tapes. All of which has nothing to do with the point, which is compliance with eBay policy (whether or not I agree with it).
You have made this very clear twinsoft, and you have stated it very well. Shame on you for the boots though
I hope I have made it just as clear that eBay policy (the REAL issue) is in need of some major changes to bring it in line with the real world and end the apparent discrimination against some sellers.
Glenda ...
> The policy is for a simple link - "please visit my website."
OK, I'll buy that argument.
> As to your account being reinstated, I think you're misinterpreting what you quoted to twinsoft. It reads to me like if you prove that the auctions were unfairly removed (as far as copyright goes), they'll reinstate you. You haven't proved it yet, so you're suspended.
I DO understand that! You don't seem to understand my point. Maybe if I phrased it thusly: "It's too late to close the barn door after the horse gets out" it might make more sense. eBay has held my trial, viewed the 'evidence' provided by some phantom member (they didn't just happen to come across my auction, did they?), convicted me, punished me, and hurt my reputation amongst my peers ... all without one word to me. Not a single question about my items or my source before they 'exed' me out.
> You've said there was no investigation - but there was; Emmett obviously read the auction descripiton. Their investigative responsibility for auction content covers what is written in the auction itself; they don't have to check into your background, interview your neighbors, or discuss it with you. It is the seller's responsibility to make the text as unambiguous and clear as possible. Frankly, if an eBay rep is going to misinterpret the words in an auction, then so are most of the people who are potential bidders.
They can find out the same way I do. In my field, it's really simple. It is not rocket science. The problem is, and eBay admits this, is that they have no idea of who owns most of the copyrights in the stuff I deal in. Rather than ask an expert BEFORE the trial and conviction, it's easier for them to brand you guilty then when you ask for an explanation, they come back and ask for evidence so you can clear yourself. By then it's too late Glenda - the damage has been done (the horse is gone!). The law doesn't work this way, although as twinsoft has stated, eBay policy does.
eBay policy needs to be changed!
> Example, you described one of the tapes as "Not For Air." Personally, I'd have thought it had been stolen from that phrasing, though apparently I'd have been wrong.
Yes, you would have ... same as eBay. This is one of the dangers of being placed in a position where you have to made decisions with no knowledge of the issue you are trying to make the decision on (i.e. the eBay world). The people who did place bids did not interpret this incorrectly. They knew EXACTLY what I was offering, and they are just as amazed as I am that it was canceled. Even more amazed when eBay ended my auction for commercially released tapes that are available to anyone who is willing to pay and wait (the set of tapes I listed took me 10 months to collect from Columbia House). To tell me, or even suggest to me that these FACTORY ORIGINAL tapes may be "potentially" infringing shows their utter ignorance.
> they're getting away with it
Not anymore! I finally reached an eBay 'bot who understands what I have been trying to say for the past several months. The current illegal auction was canceled by eBay about 3 hours ago. One for the good guys!
> Just 'cause one person doesn't get caught doesn't mean they weren't doing something wrong.
But if an obvious criminal activity (the continued selling of bootleg videos by the same seller) is reported to the authorities (eBay), and if the authorities refuse to deal with it, then a whole new set of rules come into effect ... rules that have nothing to do with how eBay sees the world. Ask any director or CEO of a large, real world organization about their personal liability if an employee screws up - you'll see where I am coming from.
posted on December 26, 2000 05:26:41 PM new
More from eBay:
>From: eBay Customer Support <[email protected]>
>Reply-To: eBay Customer Support <[email protected]>
... SOME STUFF SNIPPED HERE ...
>Subject: Re: NOTICE: eBay Registration Suspension - Previous Warning - >Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 13:49:45 -0800
>Just wanted to let you know the user you had reported has been suspended.
>
>While you may not agree with the policies, they are clearly stated policies on the site which are enforced equally. Should you like to make suggestions regarding policies, you can write to: [email protected].
>
>
>Regards,
>
>Emmett
>eBay Community Watch Team
And my reply ...
Thanks Emmett ... glad to see I am no longer "The Lone Ranger" here!
As to suggested policy changes, I believe the problem with the type of items I trade in (video tapes) and other types of items such as computer software and CD music, is that the laws governing what is allowed and what isn't are very complex and beyond the skills of your staff to properly interpret. The result of an attempted effort by you to make a ruling with insufficient knowledge is perceived by most people as a conviction without a trial or even an opportunity to present the other side.
In order to eliminate this perception, you may want to think about revising your policies so that when a potentially infringing item is reported to SafeHarbour, you don't arbritrarily end it. Instead, you should notify the seller with your concerns, and request that the seller provide proof of legality to you within 24 hours. If the seller fails to respond, end the auction. If the seller does respond (which I would have done if I was asked BEFORE you ended my auctions), then you can make another assessment. In most cases, when the seller does respond it will be to defend his auction, and he will provide facts that can easily be verified. Under these conditions, the auction won't be ended, the seller won't be blindsided with a suspension and have to justify his auction after the fact, bids will not be lost, and the seller's reputation will not be damaged (as has mine with my peers as a direct result of your actions wrt my auctions).
I'm not sure how you could word such a policy, but I do know that it would be fairer to your honest members and would weed out the obvious bootleggers.
In the meantime, I will continue to report video tape auctions that I believe are illegal. I have been involved in tape collecting, trading, buying and selling all over the world for 16+ years now, and I consider myself an "expert" as to what is allowed to be sold and what isn't. Illegal sales of this type of material occur regularily on various usenet groups that cannot be moderated. In your case, I think eBay would benefit if they became a little more proactive in cleaning up this problem.
posted on December 26, 2000 05:52:14 PM new
Ed123, I have been selling at eBay for three years. I also sell software and information guides. So I guess I'm at least as knowlegable about the goings-on in those categories as you. You don't have to start a smear campaign to prove anything to me.
Much of what you object to isn't gaining sympathy because experienced sellers are already aware of the problems and have dealt with them before. We all KNOW eBay often ends legal auctions. We know how difficult it is dealing with SafeHarbor and that the reps often shoot from the hip. We know that eBay is judge, jury and executioner. One poster here is proclaiming loudly that he didn't do anything wrong, that it was all a setup, but without seeing the auctions, it's hard to make any sort of judgement call. Naturally, no one suspended by SafeHarbor ever deserves it.
Like I said, I sell the same kind of items as Ed123 and so we have the same competitors. I know what they are cabable of doing. One of my competitors includes screenshots of his "program" and mixes in screenshots of Adobe Photoshop, to make it look like his program includes a sophisticated photo editor. (It does not.) I emailed the seller about it and he offered to "burn" me a copy of Adobe Photoshop for $15. That seller has been selling the same item with the same misleading ad for over a year now. Another long-time rival of mine repeatedly flaunts the "appropriate categories" rule by listing her informational items in the Hot Wheels, Photo & Electronics, Collectibles and every possible category. She just got back from a week's suspension. She knew perfectly well she was in violation of eBay's rules.
Believe me, I know what goes on. I was the first seller to offer many of the auction management tools at eBay, and I've seen competitors pull every kind of dirty trick: ad stealing, misleading ads, lies, copyright infringements. And plenty of people have complained to SafeHarbor about me too. It doesn't stick, but if it did, I would contact SafeHarbor and work things out with them.
Ever since Networker67 came to AW, it seems more and more "unfair suspension" threads are appearing. (No disrespect to Networker intended.) It's a rare and honest seller who admits they "walk the line."
I just want to emphasize that my harsh tone is not because I believe in the sanctity of copyright or I think someone did something wrong. I'm upset because I think it is extremely dumb to continue with a practice (right or wrong) after one has been warned by SafeHarbor. Twelvepole is right, contact SafeHarbor first and get their seal of approval before lising that item or description again.
Ed123, let me get this straight. You've got 10 accounts which you admit all have shilled feedback, and you're COMPLAINING that eBay suspended you? Tell me I misunderstood, please!
posted on December 26, 2000 05:56:58 PM new
Well thanks for admitting that this stuff takes place.
No, A long time ago I made 10 accoutts and gave the other 9 FB with them. I have never used teh accounts to sell or buy anything. They sit idly by, almost a year now.
Ok, well ask safeharbour to preaproove? That's very intersting and will lead to a godo segway to my next posting here on AW. I have done just that, and what you will soon see is SH acutaly Refuses to approve an auction such that to guarantee it wont be ended. This will be one of the most hillarious threads as I post (after editing) all 14 exchanges with ebay tech support I have had with regard to this matter.
posted on December 26, 2000 06:01:26 PM new
BTW TS, how come the complaints dont stick to SH? Probably because you have a high FB. Not everyone does and eBay tramples over thier rights. Not everyone is as good as words as you are or can afford to go up head to head with a lawyer. I am all about proecting the person running a small business that's even small by eBay standards.
posted on December 26, 2000 06:16:05 PM new
Ed123, I am a powerseller, but I have to abide by the rules like everyone else. The last time eBay ended an auction of mine, they called me on the phone. They wanted to make SURE I understood the problem. (It was an unlicensed Microsoft CD that I bought at a flea market.) And they also made it clear that if I ran the auction again I would be suspended.
