posted on January 11, 2001 10:32:45 AM new
HI all -
I was surprised to read a "tip" in a book on auctions recently that books can be sent in a plain manila envelope [I mean the yellow office envelopes] if wrapped in bubble wrap first. The author said that was more cost effective than a padded envelope and did just as well.
I normally ship in boxes if I have them, but sometimes do ship lightweight trade paperbacks in padded/Jiffy [not bubble] envelopes.
Any opinion on the home-made bubble envelope idea? I don't think it would be sturdy enough. Maybe with cardboard inserts?
posted on January 11, 2001 11:04:58 AM new
This question came up for me this week, too.
I buy a lot of books online. Most of the sellers have been sending them in plain envelopes with the book wrapped in bubble or heavy tissue. I admit as a buyer, I cringe a bit when I see that, and open the envelope with a prayer on my lips. But, so far, so good. They have all been paperbacks and I couldn't see any dents or creases from sending them this way.
This week I had to ship some hardcover books with nice dustjackets and I just couldn't bring myself to put them in an envelope. I wrap very carefully: first in tissue, then in bubble, then in a box. If I can recycle a good, sturdy used box, then that's fine. But if I have to buy boxes, the cost adds up quickly. Not to mention the added weight which increases the shipping costs.
So, like you, I must re-think my packing strategy. I'm just a casual seller with only a few more books to list, but the savings would be great. I'd have more money to e-BUY!
Hopefully, the experienced booksellers here will set us straight.
posted on January 11, 2001 11:06:52 AM new
keziak - I have done this some, with paperbacks. Usually what I do is wrap in bubblewrap, then in VERY STRONG paper (I buy a roll of builder's paper at Home Depot, saw it in half to make two rolls). I put an address on this package in case the envelope does get torn. Then into the envelope, and tape it well.
I do think some reinforcement is needed inside, as most of these envelopes are not that strong.
I am offering on a few of my auctions to send the book in a box at $1.75, or in an envelope at $1.30. I think some people who are just buying a reading copy, especially paperback, would just as soon save the forty-five cents.
I'd never used envelopes until I started selling on Half.com, and after buying a number of books from there, and getting them (quite safely) in envelopes, or just wrapped securely in brown paper, I decided to try it.
posted on January 11, 2001 11:17:22 AM new
If I ship in an envelope, which I do for small books, I wrap in plastic, paper, then in cardboarding fluting.
I've had no complaints so far.
But then, my books ARE used or factory seconds, with the flaws detailed in the auction. When I do sell a new or large book, I box 'em.
posted on January 11, 2001 11:17:44 AM new
I send paperbacks in bubble mailers. I first wrap in tissue & then lay the book on a piece of corrugated cardboard (or sometimes sandwich it between 2 pieces) & then wrap in plastic wrap or a plastic bag & then slide it into a tightly-fitting bubble mailer & stamp "do not bend" on the outside. I have had packages left in my mailbox when it was raining & bent in half to fit in my mailbox. I have not had any problems shipping this way--I'd rather send the book in a bubble mailer than a manila envelope. To me, the few cents saved would not be worth it when the inevitable damage does occur.
posted on January 11, 2001 11:22:55 AM new
I would be absolutely IRATE if I got a book in a manila envelope unless there was AT LEAST three inches of bubblewrap around the book! I have left negatives for books shipped like that when they arrived with the corners pounded flat.
A bubble envelope BY ITSELF is inadequate protection ... the corners of the book can still get smashed in transit. If you can feel the corners of the book, it's not protected. Needless to say, Manila, TYVEK, Priority envelopes, or a brown paper wrapper are lousy protection too, even with bubblewrap inside.
Here's a clue: the item you are protecting should NEVER be the hardest part of the package ... in any collision with another package, the manila envelope and bubblewrap will smash and transmit the shock to the book. You want something on the outside that can stand up to the collisions with other packages in the bins and conveyors.
http://www92.pair.com/soufla/packingtips.htm explains a cheap, sturdy packing method that eliminates the need for the box or envelope for most books. It is worth looking into if you sell many books.
posted on January 11, 2001 11:26:24 AM new
I've sent over 300 books this way in the past year without a single complaint. I do it for all books that are won for under 20 dollars. For over 20 dollars, or if they indicate it's a very precious/collectible book for them, I usually find a box for them.
I think the key to success with the manila-and-bubble-wrap combo is tight, reinforced wrapping. First I wrap in a big ziplock bag (dollar store) with my card (free from VistaPrint.com) inside, tape it shut, then wrap 2 layers of thin bubble wrap (mom brings it to me from her work) around it, and tape them, then I put the book in the manila envelope (10 for a dollar at my dollar store) and fold the excess of the envelope down over the book so that it's a very close fit. Then I use a large amount of 2 inch clear tape to seal the book shut. I get this tape for dirt cheap at my local swap meet and I use a ton of it. I can do this whole procedure very quickly since I've had a lot of practice with it. Almost all of my feedbacks say "great wrapping" so I think I am doing something right.
I generally don't sell "valuable" books. Yes, it's true that you can never know what book is going to be valuable to what person, but my experience from talking to my customers is that they're buying my books for casual reading and do not expect perfect condition. If they're buying used, easy-to-find-on-Amazon-at-twice-the-price books from me, I think I can safely say that a rubbed corner or a creased cover isn't going to have them demanding a refund.
If I got complaints about my packaging I might reconsider shipping in boxes, but so far it's been nothing but praise.
posted on January 11, 2001 11:31:53 AM new
Ditto on what others have said. If I'm buying a used paperback as a reading copy, I'm not too picky as long as it gets to me intact. But if I pay big bucks for a first edition, it better be well packed in a box.
posted on January 11, 2001 12:10:18 PM new
BRIGHID686 - I have used variations of your technique (folding the envelope around the book to make a tight package). You might want to check out the builder's paper I referred to - it is the paper builders put down on new floors or carpet to protect them while they work. It is extremely tough, and if you wanted to wrap it around your bubblewrapped book instead of using the envelope, it would be stronger than the env. and a lot cheaper. I have thought about precutting pieces of it to fit standard paperbacks, and wrapping with it, omitting the envelope. (I received one book wrapped in a plastic grocery bag, then in a brown paper grocery bag, and well taped. It was an inexpensive book, and it arrived safely. I have no problem with that kind of recycling.)
I would like to emphasize that I always box books that are at all valuable or collectible; but I think with the postage increase, many buyers are going to appreciate any effort to cut costs.
posted on January 11, 2001 12:13:35 PM new
I've done both (purchased and sold)books. Mostly used paperpacks. I wrap them tightly in plastic wrap to insure no movement, then ziplock bag, then manilla envelope which I fold back and tape to assure book is not floating within the envelope. If I sell a hardcover, (mint, gift quality) then I box. No complaints from anyone. On the other hand I have purchased books that were boxed, priority mail but allowed to move around due to poor packing that arrived damaged on the corners.
posted on January 11, 2001 01:03:20 PM new
I sell approximately 12 craft (Tole Painting) books each week.
The books I sell are all new and all are shipped in plain manila envelopes book rate and with or without insurance. Most sell in the $11.00 - $12.00 range
I use no additional padding and I tape the flap shut and stamp "Fragile" and "DO NOT BEND!" on each envelope.
In 27 months I have had no complaints. In fact I have had many very positive comments about this method and will comtinue to ship this way. If and when I do get a complaint i'll just replace the book.
Now if I were selling more expensive books I would consider shipping in a more protective manner.
posted on January 11, 2001 01:09:36 PM new
I sell used books..mostly older hardbacks (20 to over 100 years old).
I ship in padded envelopes almost exclusively and have lots of feedback mentioning the great packing.
If the book goes over $30, or if it is a fragile one, or is obviously a collectible book I will upgrade the shipping to a priority box (at my cost)...otherwise all books go into the padded envelope for a flat $2.50 shipping fee.
No problems so far.
Abacaxi...you DO ask the seller how he packages the books before you bid, don't you?
If not, then it is unfair to neg him when he didn't pack to your expectations...especially if he never knew you expected it in a box.
posted on January 11, 2001 01:10:38 PM new
I think that here (in Florida) mail carriers are taught that DO NOT BEND means "fold it in half and cram it in the mailbox"!!
Also: "If it is raining, be sure to leave the mailbox lid OPEN in order to insure that every item is uniformly soaked."
Had to add:
amy:
You must have missed abacaxi's famous "Book Packaging Rant" a while back
[ edited by debbielennon on Jan 11, 2001 01:13 PM ]
posted on January 11, 2001 01:23:10 PM new
Debbielennon...must have been one of those days I was so busy packing my books in bubble wrap that I didn't look at AW.
That will teach me to look at Aw at least once every single day!
posted on January 11, 2001 01:51:33 PM newrampaged
"I use no additional padding and I tape the flap shut and stamp "Fragile" and "DO NOT BEND!" on each envelope. "
And what makes you think the conveyers and sorting machines can read the stamps?
amy -
I send insultingly explicit packing instructions ... any method that will get it to me in the condition the description indicates will do. But, if the description doesn't mention squashed corners and the book arrives with them, you have your choice of negatives, and no amount of refunding or replacing can prevent them:
*You can have one for lousy packing that did not protect the book
*You can have one for inaccurate description if the packing is adequate but the book has damage that is not revealed
My reason for the immediate negative is that taking bribes to keep quiet about your screw-up doesn't help other bidders who may be a bit intimidated.
Exceptions would be maade where there are tire tracks, forklift punctures, or other signs the USPS was at fault.
posted on January 11, 2001 02:06:45 PM new
My EBAY name is victoria.
I don't know what kind of books you are looking for, and although I'm taking a break right now, I tend to sell a hodgepodge, abacaxi, please don't buy from me.
I have enough stress in my life without your insultingly explicit e-mail to liven up my day.
posted on January 11, 2001 02:12:32 PM new
I always use sturdy carboard thinking that's overkill for a hardcover book. But reading this thread I realize I've been doing it best. If you have special delivery wants, make sure your seller knows because all sellers have different beliefs what is safe enough.
\"It's lonely at the top, but you eat better.
\"
posted on January 11, 2001 03:33:31 PM new
I too, have sold close to 300 books and have ONLY used the manilla envelopes. I have 4 different sizes of them. I first wrap the book in the type of plastic bag that groceries come in (the kind of bag that you get at any store when you buy something)
No one has ever complained and all my books arrived safely with no dammage. It's not always necessary to make things harder than they need to be.
And Abacaxl - please don't ever bid on any of my book auctions. I would cancel your bid immediately. Nobody needs that type of intimidation
posted on January 11, 2001 03:37:13 PM new
The last book I received in a manila envelope was totally mangled by the postal machiney....ripped through the envelope--and ripped through the book---and spread some kind of black dust all over it.
posted on January 11, 2001 03:50:38 PM new
I actually appreciated abacaxi's book packing rant. I never really thought about the corners of books getting damaged in transit--I was more worried about keeping them dry & keeping them from being folded/bent. (I do box hardcovers but now I pad them so they do not shift around within the box, plus wrap them to prevent them from getting wet. On the rare occasion that I list one I usually specify Priority shipping or Bookrate upon request anyway.)
Whenever I purchase something that can possibly be bent, I do ask the seller to package it accordingly because I know that it will be bent when I receive it. I don't see a problem in warning the seller about a known disaster waiting to happen. Even if I insure the purchase, it is a *PITA* to have to wait for the refund assuming that the packaging was worthy of an insurance claim--much easier to alert the seller in advance...
posted on January 11, 2001 04:02:31 PM new
Victoria -
The message is actually intimidatingly stern ... I tried making general inquiries and kept getting crappy packing, so I changed tactics and started issuing orders. It might insult some and intimidate others, but when I'm buying books from 1800-1900 they deserve all the protection they can get.
I try to leave 100% feedback for sellers (and buyers too)
posted on January 11, 2001 04:10:30 PM new
I sell hundreds of books a year off three different sites. I'm with you guys. I wrap my books in shrink wrap plastic. Then into a padded tight fitting envelope and nearly cover it in heavy clear tape. Most of the books I sell are contemporary HB's. Out of a nearly combined feedback 0f 2200 I have one negative remark.
I also buy a lot of books and without exception I get them in padded envelopes. Never a problem.
I don't need someone like Acabaxi bidding on or buying my books either. I think he/she is is the exception to the rule.
If I ever started having problems and complaints about my packing methods I would change but experience leads me to believe I am doing just fine!
posted on January 11, 2001 04:12:58 PM new
The infamous PACKING RANT!
!!!!L@@K!!!! !!!!L@@K!!!! !!!!L@@K!!!!
Please do not be insulted if none of this tirade applies to you or your mailing practices, but there are some sellers with really bad packing habitsand I have no way of knowing what you consider "good packing" until Isee the book. Often it is too late.
I am tired of sellers shipping scarce books with less care than they would a McDonald's Happy Meal toy, then saying "Gee, I've mailed XXX books and no one has ever had a damaged book before" and expecting me to believe it. Think of the number of dented, gouged, and smashed parcels you recieve ... don't think yours will have a magical shield defending them.
I am mostly buying books for a research project, and I plan to resell the books at the end of the project. If they are damaged in transit, it means I can't resell as easily or profitably.
I unpack books with the feedback page open, and there are three possible outcomes. As described, well packed = POSITIVE. Not as described OR damage in transit that was preventable by proper packing = NEGATIVE As described but inadequately packed = NEUTRAL that specifically mentions surviving bad packing. Please protect my investment and your feedback rating.
!!!!L@@K!!!! BOOKS ARE NOT INDESTRUCTIBLE !!!!!L@@K!!!!
I became one of those pushy buyers that tells sellers how to pack my books after I received several that were VERY poorly packed. One went from "mint" to battered because the seller shipped it inside a priority envelope with no protection, and another from FINE to not-so-fine because it was not padded inside its box and pounded against the inside of a Priority box for 2500 miles.
A bubble envelope BY ITSELF is inadequate protection ... the corners of the book can still get smashed in transit. If you can feel the corners of the book, it's not protected. Needless to say, Manila, TYVEK, Priority envelopes, or a brown paper wrapper are lousy protection too, with or without bubblewrap underneath them.
I can properly pack a book for less than $.25 (average cost, all new materials) so there is no excuse for sending an fragile, elderly book out with inadequate protection.
1. Wrap book in plastic and tape shut for moisture protection. A plastic bag from the supermarket is OK as long as it's clean and sealed SNUGLY around the pages.
2. Pad the book with several layers of bubblewrap or corrugated cardboard ... again snugly taping around the book to prevent the pages from being able to move and break away from the spine and covers.
Make sure the corners of the cover are protected against bumps that can smash them under. A strip cut from a supermarket box and folded around the book is adequate, if it is wider than the book and the book can't slip out.
3. Tape an "inside address" to the packet. If anything happens to the outer one, this can save the book from being lost.
4. Put it into the box or envelope and put the outside address on it. If you use a box, make sure the book can't rattle around in the box by stuffing foam peanuts, more bubblewrap, or even crumpled newspaper around it. Paper mashes down easily, so shake the box HARD before you seal it and if you hear the book moving around, add more paper.
http://www92.pair.com/soufla/packingtips.htm explains a cheap, sturdy packing method that eliminates the need for the box or envelope for most books. It is worth looking into if you sell many books.
posted on January 11, 2001 04:20:49 PM new
I think we had a thread just like this not to long ago. I received a book from Amazon and I am sure that if you had cardboard boxes you could make your own mailer. It is in the shape of a T. Put the book in the middle of the T, then bring each side over each other and that makes the package. Bring the bottom of the T up and fold some over the top and then seal. If you have a source for used cardboard boxes this is an ideal way to wrap a book, but don't forget the zip lock bag and some bubble wrap around it. Of course they buy their boxes from someone and maybe there is a site that sells them. I think it is worth the look or even a email to amazon or even go to your local Barnes and Noble they might be able to help. They might even have boxes they don't want.
posted on January 11, 2001 04:28:02 PM new
http://www.allpack.co.uk/bookpack.htm This is a URL for book mailers. It is a foreign site but it shows how to pack a box and I think with a little intuition you could make your own.
posted on January 11, 2001 04:31:04 PM new
I got a book packed with the cardboard "T" method and some bubblewrap and it was very well protected. Cheap method too.
posted on January 11, 2001 04:33:12 PM new
wow, interesting stuff. I already knew what abacaxi would say, but hearing from the rest of you was eye-opening. Guess I've been in Overkill Territory most of the time, but that's due to my ready source of free, nice-quality boxes that publishers use to ship books to my library. I seem to scrounge a lot more boxes than I ever do bubblewrap. I do know how to wrap and pad a book really well, though, just never occured to me that a simple yellow envelope would be an OK container.
posted on January 11, 2001 07:56:23 PM new
I have to agree with abacaxi when it comes to proper packaging on books; you can’t be too careful. The books I sell are usually in the 80 to 100 year old range and proper protection is a must. In the book trade those crushed corners are a condition called “bumping”, which usually comes from normal handling. Bumping is one of those items that must be described in a book auction description and has a direct affect on final price. I would hate to hear what my buyers would say if I just bubblewraped and stuck an envelope around it, especially when book packages make excellent frisbees at the Post Office. My packing method is almost identical to abacaxi’s, except I also put a layer of white tissue paper around the book.
posted on January 11, 2001 08:16:19 PM new
Considering how some of my packages have arrived, boxes ripped completely open down 2 sides, sliced, slit, bashed, and mangled, I know books would not survive my Fl PO with a layer of bubble wrap and a manila envelope. I've been sending them in boxes packed for the postal attack, but I might try the b flute.
[ edited by debbielennon on Jan 11, 2001 01:13 PM ]