posted on February 6, 2001 05:38:08 AM new
Hello, fellow ebayers. My subject line above says it all. I just received a retaliation negative feedback from a deadbeat about 5 days after I successfully obtained final value fees from ebay. I read on this board about the notion that a deadbeat can't give a retaliating neg since officially the auction is "not completed". Well, at least in my case, that's not what happens.
This post is just a warning for sellers to be careful with this idea above. In my own situation, I would have negged this deadbeat anyway on principle alone, since they ignored my deadline for payment, ignored the npb, and claimed the old standby that "it's in the mail" with several conflicting dates. I hate being lied to, so that was the final straw.
If a bidder would just explain their late situation to me, 90 percent of the time I'll give them another week (and politeness goes a long way with me).
Well, before I get too far off my original topic, it's been my experience that you can
STILL receive a negative feedback after claiming ebay final value fees for an unsuccessful auction.
posted on February 6, 2001 05:58:34 AM new
Hi, Blackjack - sorry about your negative! That post here a week or so ago was totally wrong (that you could not receive a negative from a buyer after you'd filed a NPB alert or for FVF.) I think it was finally established in the thread that the original poster was wrong - on something like that, it always pays to keep checking the discussion to see where it leads . . .
posted on February 6, 2001 06:06:08 AM new
Blackjack, this is one of the most common reasons why sellers are reluctant to post negative feedback for non-payers.
Be sure you post a response to that negative (in your feedback) that states very matter-of-factly that it was a "retaliatory negative from NP bidder for filing with eBay", or words to that effect.
Best to leave the term "deadbeat" out of feedback...it will sound more professional.
And, please, continue to neg the deadbeat so-and-sos (as well as filing NPB and FVF).
posted on February 6, 2001 07:33:10 AM new
Of COURSE they can still neg you! Of course, don't bother trying to have ebay remove it from your record. They seem to fully endorse and encourage false feedbacks from deadbeats. (Oh I AM bitter!)
My one and only neg is a totally false one from a now NARU bidder. I appealed 3 separate times, each time getting the same form letter. I called them and got voice mail with no response to that.
Ebay knows their feedback system has flaws, they admit that, but they refuse to do anything about it.
My solution, I will file for FVFs, but no negative feedbacks ever ever EVER again... or until ebay fixes what is broken!
Now I realize this isn't a particularly popular opinion on these boards, and I will get out my fire proof suit just in case. This is just MHO!
posted on February 6, 2001 04:27:23 PM newDeadbeats should not be able to neg sellers who file FVF refunds on them
Alright, how many sellers out there who buy an item would like it if they could NOT leave a NEG for a seller who claims false FVF?
I have no idea how often it happens, but if eBay disallowed feedback after a FVF, I would guess the false claims would go way up. There are enough rip-off sellers now, we don't need to encourge more.
Until there is some way to validate the NPB, this is NOT a viable option.
posted on February 6, 2001 04:53:25 PM newAlright, how many sellers out there who buy an item would like it if they could NOT leave a NEG for a seller who claims false FVF?
I don't see that as becoming nearly the problem that retaliatory negs are from deadbeats! Put it this way, I'm a seller, I sell a widget for 100.00, dang.. now I gotta pay that extra 3.13!! I'll just file a false FVF, risk having fraud charges filed against me because my bidder paid and I didn't ship, and probably get tossed from ebay... but hey, I saved 3.13!!!
Nope, I have to disagree with you gjsi, the problem lies more in the fact that bidders are tops at ebay and sellers are flops!
posted on February 6, 2001 05:30:46 PM newBassicbrianbidders are tops at ebay and sellers are flops!
Right, and eBay gives buyers NO way to file anything like a NPB against a seller. If a sellers ships a misrepresented item, eBay does nothing (tells the buyer to work it out with the seller). The seller just laughs and goes on selling.
When I bidder does not pay, the seller is out the listing fees, but when a seller does not ship the buyer is out the entire purchase price (usually a lot more then listing fees).
I get really tired of sellers moaning that eBay toadies to buyers, it is bulls**t. eBay doesn't care about either as long as the sellers keep selling and the buyers keep bidding.
posted on February 6, 2001 05:39:52 PM new
I do believe that there are far more NPB than crooked Sellers who do not ship...They {Sellers), risk having a fraud claim filed against them...who would want that!!!
But the NPB just keeps bidding, like a butterfly, going from listing to listing, bidding, bidding, winning, winning...and only ONE of those bids might get paid for... depending on which was the cheapest...
******** Gosh Shosh!
posted on February 6, 2001 05:52:04 PM new
Thank you Shosh! Ebay does have an insurance thing set up with Loyds of London, the buyer is out 25 bucks. Also, the buyer has other means to protect him or herself, like credit card chargebacks, netpolice, various local police and legal avenues.
Yep, I'm whining because ebay makes their money off of us sellers, yet we are the 2nd class citizens! If you deadbeat me, and then manufacture a neg, you can say anything you want to about how crappy of a seller I am.. What can I do? Oh yeah, I can appeal to Safe Harbor.. what a joke!
The fact remains that there are a lot more chances and reasons for abuses by bidders than sellers, and ebay certainly needs to rethink the policies regarding feedbacks and FVF's.
posted on February 6, 2001 05:57:54 PM new
What can I say, the only stats I have are the 150+ purchases I have made (with no NPB) and had two sellers rip me off. Lets see, that is 0 NPB and 2 bad sellers.
Seems to me there is a problem with sellers. I was out my money, one seller just disappeared, and I got the other suspended for invalid contact info, but he was back in 30 days. WOW, big help eBay. Both purchases were under $25.00, so the insurance was also a big help.
I guess it is all about your point of view
Greg
[ edited by gjsi on Feb 6, 2001 05:58 PM ]
Can't spell tonight (or ever).
[ edited by gjsi on Feb 6, 2001 05:58 PM ]
posted on February 6, 2001 06:12:53 PM new
You are so correct that it is about the point of view! I've had only about 140 sales, and 3 deadbeats. Two of which are already NARU and another who has been around a while. Both of the NARU's did bid excessively on bunches and boodles of auctions, stiffing many sellers.
Yes, there are those like the Aliens (see that other thread), who take hundreds of thousands from buyers, but it is still a lot easier to sign up with a new bidder ID and just start your cycle all over again than it is to start with a new seller ID.
Add to that the fact that we, as sellers, have to pander to the deadbeats and try to smooch the money out of their behinds, that's the part that disgusts me!
As for you, gjsi, please feel free to bid an any and all of my auctions. I love people like you who actually PAY for the items they bid on!
posted on February 6, 2001 06:13:02 PM new
well, that's 2 "bad" sellers out of 150 purchases.
Only recently, one of my NPB (one of many), was booted by EbAy...she had a total of 14 feedbacks, which included 2 NEGS and 2 NEUTRALS for ...guess what..not paying for bids....
That makes it approximately .0133333% bad seller to 28% NPB...Hmmmm....
********
Gosh Shosh!
posted on February 6, 2001 06:26:44 PM new
Sorry everyone, I usually try to keep my nose out of seller's gripes (everyone needs that cheese and glass to go with the whine), but every once in a while I get tired of hearing about how eBay panders to buyers.
My point, really, was that eBay doesn't give a flip about either buyers or seller, only how then can make more money.
My experience as a buyer, tells me that eBay is on the sellers side. Sellers say eBay is on the buyers side. WAIT, I think I just figured it out, eBay is playing the buyers against the sellers so they don't have to deal with the problems. Who would have thought
posted on February 6, 2001 11:15:51 PM new
Deadbeats should not be able to neg sellers who file FVF refunds on them.
Mzalez, do you ever buy on ebay?
Suppose you win an item, mail out your payment and it disappears in the bowels of the post office (or in the seller's pocket).
First you are short the money you sent out (or at least can count on a long drawn-out headache to get it back).
Next the seller files NPB so you get one of those nasty form letters telling you to pay up.
Then you get a negative feedback telling the world you are a deadbeat.
But best of all, you can't even tell anyone you are the one victimized cause you ain't even allowed to leave feedback!
So you would really be OK with that?
I'm not. I am the bidder you all want. Check out my feedback. If ebay ever implemented this and took away my ability to tell my side of the story, I would never bid again.
posted on February 6, 2001 11:32:51 PM new
I tried to post a NEG for a NPB that made promise after promise and reneged and Ebay wouldn't allow it. I got a message saying "no such transaction could be found".
posted on February 6, 2001 11:47:01 PM new
With the hundreds of millions (soon to be billions according to Meg) one would think that ebay could hire some brains, for a change, to figure this simple solution out. A good start would be to hire a minimum wage flunky to monitor these boards to see what the issues are and make it a priority. Now I have to return to my native planet.
[ edited by Puddy on Feb 7, 2001 12:01 AM ]
posted on February 7, 2001 06:53:17 AM new
My problems have been with sellers not leaving feedback!! My part was done PROMPTLY even before some of the sellers even knew the auction was over (and said so in their e-mail). As a new person to ebay I need credit where credit is due. 2 out 11 times this has happened,you do the math
