posted on February 27, 2001 07:52:41 AM new
I posted a message here about this issue about a week ago. A buyer won one of my auctions for a $3.99 item and was informed on the auction and twice by email that I accepted money orders only. She sent cash anyway, including 8 US quarters which my bank wouldn't exchange.(I'm in Canada, in a rural area) I emailed her to try and find a solution and she demanded I either send back her money at my expense or find somewhere that WILL cash it. I refused, so she started sending threatening and abusive emails including one which threatened my feedback, which ebay calls:
"Feedback extortion - Demanding any action of a fellow user that he or she is not required to do, at the threat of leaving negative feedback."
Just for clarification her email said:
(cut and pasted from her actual email)
"You are the most ignorant person I've dealt with on ebay!! Now,You can either send back ALL my money on Monday or send me the viewmaster reels. YOUR CHOICE. But no matter what you choose at this point I'm NOT giving you good feedback for this ebay auction. If you mail me the viewmaster reels I will give you a neutral. If you take too long to refund my money or send me any less than I sent you I"ll file many complaints against you and You will get a nasty feedback. Hope you CHOOSE to do the right thing! IT's your choice now."
To cut a long story short, I mailed her items to her on a cheaper shipping rate that Monday as she demanded as I had frankly had enough of this whole issue and just wanted it resolved. The next day I get an email from Square Trade, she filed a complaint with them against me, where she lied through her teeth until I posted all her emails as proof of her conduct and she suddenly toned down. Now to add insult to injury, she has recieved the items I mailed to her in perfect condition and she has left me nasty negative feedback just to try and damage my feedback rating. As I am a relatively new seller(2 months) I only had 41 in my feedback so this neg from her is a big deal. She put "Warning! Don't Bid! Paid cash but I had to use square trade to get mdse!!" This is totally untrue, I mailed the item to her the day before she contacted Square Trade and I have a signed and dated reciept from the Post Office proving that.
I have replyed "Breaks terms of sale, abusive emails - reported to ebay for FEEDBACK EXTORTION " I have also put a small explanation on my ME page but I'm worried now that people are going to be put off buying from me because of this womans vindictiveness. I reported her to safe harbour sending copies of my own and her emails and full details asking for the feedback to be removed, but I don't know what else I can do now. Any advice or ideas how I can further limit any negative effect this woman has caused to my feedback?
posted on February 27, 2001 08:00:19 AM new
Can't offer much advice but will tell you I have had a similar buyer. After all was said and done, I did get the person NARU'd but I have the negative. Never seemed to affect my bids at all!
Rational bidders seem to understand that there are some psychos out there and just ignore their nonsense and bid anyway. As long as overall feedback is good, a single instance is not going to hurt.
Send copies of everything to Safeharbor and keep on sending them--It did take a while for me to get mine NARU.
Just know that you aren't alone--and we know the agony this is causing you!
posted on February 27, 2001 08:03:47 AM new
Hi Louissa - Sorry you had to deal with such a jerk!
I wouldn't worry too much about the one neg, people can see through nuts like her, and will evaluate you based on all of your FB, not just the one neg.
Have you contacted eBay about removing the neg? If she lied in it and you have proof of that, you may have some luck with them.
posted on February 27, 2001 08:03:56 AM new
Well, now that she has negged you, you can neg her & state more of the facts regarding what happened (if you have not already done so.) I will usually also click on the bidder's FB when they leave a neg for a seller to see if I can get "the other side of the story". I would keep anything on your "me" page strictly factual and try not to sound over-emotional. Intelligent bidders should be able to see that you unfortunately got stuck with an unreasonable bidder and look past it.
[ edited by debbielennon on Feb 27, 2001 08:05 AM ]
posted on February 27, 2001 08:24:49 AM new
Louissa.... I too am sorry for you that this has happened. PAAAleeezzzzzzz......don't worry about the neg and IMO I would NOT include it in your "about me" page..if anything, that will cause buyers to think twice about bidding. You said that you are new (2 months) and you will learn to blow these kind of ppl. off.
I have one question for you though. My hubby and I have property in Canada and we are there several times a year (yes, very rural). There is one very little tiny bank and they take American money; paper or coin. You said that your tos states that you take money orders only, but you took the coins to the bank? I truly am not trying to make you more angry than you already are; just trying to understand why you tried to "cash" them in if you only take money orders or just send it back to the buyer as she requested even if it was at your own expense. Would have save a bunch of grief. Please don't get me wrong; this buyer went way over the edge, but sometimes there are better ways for sellers to handle this type of transaction.
posted on February 27, 2001 08:31:26 AM new
Hi nanastuff,
I'm in Canada as well, and every bank I've been to will not exchange "change" at the exchange rate, just bills. I don't think that is right, but that has been my experience.
posted on February 27, 2001 08:40:03 AM new
I ask for money orders because it gives both the buyer and seller some security in the transaction. I have no problem in general with a buyer sending cash except for it being a dangerous thing to send through the mail for obvious reasons. Buyers have sent CDN and US cash in the mail and if its US and in notes my bank will exchange it no problem. However that week 2 people sent me US cash(both auctions were less than $4), both of them with coins, I took it to the bank, they said notes only, so I emailed both buyers. The first gentlemen was very nice and said he would forward the extra, I sent his item right away with his coins included. The second buyer was this woman who has been nothing but demanding and abusive from the start. I still sent her the item she purchased, just to save any further conflict and she still continues this harrassment.
I suppose my point is, that most of my auctions are for small amounts of money, if everyone sent me foreign coins in any currency but my own I wouldn't make any money on ebay.
I tried to compromise with this woman, I offered to send her coins back with her merchandise, this would have meant it would have cost her nothing extra except the cost of a stamp to send $2 in notes. However from her behaviour I am positive if I had mailed back the coins first at my expense I would have never recieved any other money from her. She said in the email above she would give nasty feedback if I didn't send back her money quickly and completely and neutral if I sent the item. I sent the item immediately to her and she negs me? This just shows her integrity as far as I'm concerned. I'm not an unreasonable person but this is pushing the envelope too far.
posted on February 27, 2001 08:48:06 AM new
Hi Oxford, Let me try to explain this. I will admit that I have not gone into a bank in Canada to exchange 8 American quarters for the exchange rate. It usually included paper along with coins, but they included them all and gave me the exchange rate. I guess the question I have is that if this seller only takes money orders, then why even try to exchange 8 quarters? It was a $3.99 item (which the poster is probably not including the shipping amount). Guess I am just a little confused here or perhaps there could have been a more constructive way of handling this?? (of course, it doesn't take much to confuse this old lady In MHO, I would have just sent the "cash" back to the bidder; yes at my own expense and write it off.
posted on February 27, 2001 08:51:19 AM new
Yes, Louissa....you will learn to deal with "nuts"....both as a buyer and a seller. So sorry this happened to you....been there, done that.
posted on February 27, 2001 08:54:13 AM new
I would state that you DO NOT accept cash and that if cash is sent, you will NOT send their item or return their cash until they send you a money order. NO EXCEPTIONS whatsoever.
You can offer an explanation (difficulty in exchange etc. as you are in Canada)
Be absolutely firm. Don't worry, every seller gets a bad bidder once in a while.
posted on February 27, 2001 08:59:57 AM new
One of the banks I deal with in Canada, the CIBC, still takes the green US money orders and anything else I give them.
If I purchase a money order for $45.67 they will take the 67c in US coin.
But if I bring in a bag of US coins they will not give me exchange on the money.
posted on February 27, 2001 09:02:57 AM new
i have followed this saga from the beginning - i thought that it had to be a troll posting - i still wonder. all this fuss started over $2.00 in US coin quarters is amazing to me. you take the $2.00 and spend them - they are currency, and unlike the States where clerks have been known to throw Canadian coins back in your face, here in Canada US coin spends just fine - whether you are living rural or not. the only thing this seller was out was the possible .80 cents in exchange that she could have gotten if the currency had been bills.
as for why banks do not deal in exchange rate on coins is simple - it is too expensive to deal with coins, and shipping coins back to countries of origin. the banks in Canada have never given exchange on coins in my 25 years of experience with them.
i have recieved both US currency and US coin in payment for items. i have never complained to a customer that "gee! i'm losing out on x-number of cents in possible exchange because you sent me a quarter!" i find this all so unbelieveable that this simple sale escalated to what it did over a few quarter coins.
posted on February 27, 2001 09:09:01 AM new
Stores, banks whoever will only accept US coins as if they are Canadian coins. No exchange is given.
I'm always on the look out for USA coins though---once I had a 'ton' of pennies and other change saved up and then went shopping in the USA with my loot.
I think you should invite the buyer here---we can give her some foreign economy lessons.
posted on February 27, 2001 09:10:53 AM new
Hi Shaani,
I would be careful about accepting Green US Only M.O.s. If your branch takes them, its only because they dont know better and may one day figure out its against the law and refuse them. You can return it but your customer wont be able to cash it either and will be out the money.
posted on February 27, 2001 09:21:09 AM new
Squeeky---seeing as you don't seem to mind losing money on the exchange rate of coins---can I bid on one of your items and pay for in it Canadian coinage???
posted on February 27, 2001 09:23:13 AM new
squeeky...I agree (except for the troll part)...US coins can be spent in Canada and vise versa...that is why I wondered why someone who lives in Canada would take 8 quarters to the bank unless they wanted the exchange rate and why you would do that in the first place if you accept money orders only. I guess that is the point I am trying to make; doesn't matter about the exchange rate or coins or any of that. The poster states money orders only and she should have zipped this right back to the bidder (yes, even at sellers cost), emailed the bidder and said so. The other thing is that since seller did not do this, Zazzie & squeeky are right; those quarters are very spendable in Canada.
posted on February 27, 2001 09:25:43 AM new
Squeeky,
What exactly do you mean by troll? I thought personal comments were not allowed on the message boards or am I missing something here?
Secondly, how do you know who does and doesn't accept US coins in my area? I took both the coins AND notes along to the bank at the same time and they do not exchange coins.
Thirdly I was out just over a $1 if you would care to check the exchange rate and if you take into consideration my costs of the item, ebay fees and shipping, $1 on a $4 item is hardly nothing, or would you consider allowing a buyer off $10 of a $40 sale? If I had 10 auctions with that happening at $4 a time, thats exactly what it would be. And as I pointed out it was the second auction under $4 that week where I had recieved US coins.
Finally, this saga as you put it, isn't over 8 quarters, its over the behaviour of a completely unreasonable woman who has sent threats by email, lied and tried to ruin my feedback. I sent her item and yet she continues her harrassment. And I'm a troll?
[ edited by Louissa on Feb 27, 2001 09:28 AM ]
posted on February 27, 2001 09:28:45 AM new
Hi genie9
When we found out a few months ago that the banks would no longer accept the green money orders we specifically asked this bank.
They told us that they had no problem with it and that we could continue to deposit them. This bank treats us pretty good and we have been with them for a long time.
If it ever becomes a problem we can take them to a US bank and deposit them in our account there.
posted on February 27, 2001 09:37:43 AM new
i "know" about the banks in your area because i know that NO Canadian bank will give exchange on foreign coins.
and no, you cannot pay my auctions that say "US Dollars" only in Canadian dollars unless you include the exchange rate i offer you - a fair rate that is well below what it would cost it you to buy US $. i give all my Canadian customers a break on the exchange rate that way.
yes, you are out .80 some cents - yes that sucks. but was it worth all this hassle? that is the point i was trying to make. this isn't a clear cut case of some customer short changing you. it was a customer who paid you the amount owed. that you were unable to realize the exchange rate that you hoped/wanted on that payment shouldn't be your customer's problem.
if you think this is a major problem - ie US customers paying you in coins and not bills, then amend your TOS. all i am saying is that in a year of online selling i have not found this to be a problem.
posted on February 27, 2001 09:45:51 AM new
Louissa - If you haven't already done so, go to the page on eBay where it tells the circumstances under which eBay WILL consider removing negative feedback. I believe the feedback she left for you will qualify because she says she had to go to Square Trade, and then you reply that she has been reported to Safe Harbor. I'm not certain, but I think comments like that are not allowed. If you are turned down on your initial request for removal of the FB, appeal it (and keep on appealing it), ask that a supervisor review the decision, etc.
I wish you luck in getting it removed; however, I agree with others who say it won't hurt your bids. People really can see through things like that. It will soon be off the first page of your FB, and very few people will look it up then.
posted on February 27, 2001 09:48:54 AM new
Louissa:
No matter what you say in your auctions or in your end-of-auction e-mails, I think you will continue to encounter this problem of buyers sending you coins when the amounts owed are under $4.00.
I live in Canada too. In the past 3 years on eBay, I have often received payments as low as $6.00. I often receive bills, but I have never received coins (except once - when someone from Asia sent me an Australian dollar!).
To solve the problem permanently, I think the best solution might be to try to make the payments at least $6.00. I don't know what you sell, but is there some way you could group items and sell sets of 2 similar items in a single auction?
posted on February 27, 2001 09:55:07 AM new
---accepting cheques is not that bad, I've been doing it for years and never had a bounced one yet. Money orders are VERY expensive--especailly the pink International ones--and the alternative to this expense is to send cash.
It's just too bad the customer decided to empty her piggy bank with her payment to you.
I realize that the person's reaction is the issue---not just the situation. I think you need to carefully word a rebuttal to her feedback to explain the situation to anyone who reads your feedback---which has been found to be about only 10% of people who bid.
Do it calmly and maturely---and you will come out looking like the rose.
posted on February 27, 2001 10:02:54 AM new
" I emailed her to try and find a solution"...
May I ask what solution you were asking for?
I, too, would like to see the buyer invited to this thread. I would like to see all the transactions that took place between this buyer and seller. Thanks
posted on February 27, 2001 10:10:13 AM new
I amended my TOS right after this situation began. Also in reply to squeeky once more, I wouldn't have sweat the small stuff (i.e.the coins) had she not been so hostile right from the beginning. When someone is that way, it doesn't inspire a person to be nice.
I don't consider myself a bad seller, I have had a few auctions where I didn't charge enough on shipping and I added the extra myself and I also had an auction recently where I overestimated shipping a little and I sent money back to the buyer and emailed them to let them know and why. I value each and every buyer of my auctions but I don't think I should be subjected to threats and rude behaviour and then a sabotage on my feedback.
I just wanted an end to the situation and I did as she demanded, it seems totally unreasonable what she did in return.
As for the feedback not affecting my auctions, one person already has cancelled a bid in the last hour. It seems more than coincidental that this occurs the same day as I recieve this nasty negative.
posted on February 27, 2001 11:31:02 AM new
There needs to be an online lawyers group who will send emails to these loonies to smack them down. For a small fee, they evaluate the correspondence and send an official "Don't even think of leaving libelous feedback" email to the offending party.
posted on February 27, 2001 11:38:20 AM new
Thankyou Glenda for your advice, and also thanks to everyone else for their advice and comments, good or bad they all count and help. I'm new to selling and just trying to make a little extra for my family and its tough when you start out trying something new like this, all feedback in these message boards are really helpful in seeing the whole picture.
Just one note for those a little confused about my knowledge or lack thereof of where I could actually use the quarters, I've only lived in Canada for 2 years, my husband is Canadian, I'm from England. I never even concieved that I could take the US currency anywhere else but the bank and by the time someone here advised me there were other possiblities this situation had already escalated.
Anyway like I said thankyou for all your comments they are all read and appreciated.
posted on February 27, 2001 12:28:07 PM new
don't sweat it sister, if the rest of your feedback is good and what you have yet to receive is positive, when you get it, you will be ok.........don't kill yourself to have perfect feedback. its tough to maintain that these days with all the nuts and flakes and deadbeats playing games...just explain her comment and move on........you will be just fine
In MHO, I would have just sent the "cash" back to the bidder; yes at my own expense and write it off. 
