posted on April 18, 2001 02:26:17 PM new
Good Afternoon Everyone:
How long should I wait before filing NPB on highfeed back buyers. I feel that I am being misled by these two buyers. I am trying to be a good seller but I am afraid I will get a neg if I file NPB on them, who would believe someone with feedback below thirty against others with feedback well over 100.
Buyer # 1: Auction ended March 19. Answer to my WBN "waiting to bid on more of your auctions". Two reminders later I get email "Did I pay for this auction?" I email her "no". She says she will put check in the mail. Eight days later I email saying I have not received her check. She emails me "If you don't receive it by Friday, I will mail you another". It is almost 30 days from end of auction. This buyer has 1 neg for not paying.
Buyer # 2: Auction ended April 2. No reply to my WBN, however it was not bounced back to me, sent reminder on 9th day after auction. She replies" send me the total amounts". I send second copy of WBN. She emails me with her information and will be sending a check. I receive email today saying she sent my check to IRS by mistake. This could happen.
Am I being impatient? There is a time limit to file for FVF so should I just eat those fees and call it the cost of business. Thanks in advance.
posted on April 18, 2001 02:33:12 PM new
DO NOT eat those fees and call it a cost of doing business!
Even if a buyer has given me what seems to be a legitimate excuse, and even if I believe them, I politely let them know that eBay does not allow me to let these things go indefinitely and still be eligible for a refund of fees.
File those NPB alerts, and if the payments don't arrive, file for your refunds.
posted on April 18, 2001 02:37:22 PM new
Most likely you'll get some angry email from the high bidders if you file a NPB on them.
Here's my response to those kinds of email.
Hello XXX,
I emailed you last week letting you know that your payment had not yet arrived.
When you didn't respond I wasn't sure what to make of the situation?
If a sale doesn't come together, the only way I can recoup ebay's commission on the sale
is to file a non paying bidders request. I didn't mean to offend you, I was just
following eBay's protocol.
I'll let you know if anything shows up here in the next few days.
posted on April 18, 2001 02:37:22 PM new
Thanks kudzorose: I like the way you worded your reply. One of these buyers is bidding and paying on other auctions. This will be my first time filing NPB's. The first buyer called the seller she didn't pay a Liar and was kind of nasty.
posted on April 18, 2001 02:43:46 PM new
Reddeer: Thanks for your idea and I am copying both of them for future use. I have been upset about this and I do not feel like listing anything. Being a seller on Ebay is very hard for a newbie. I owned my own bookstore for eight years. Ebay is a totally different world.
posted on April 18, 2001 03:29:00 PM new
Suggested course of action for dealing with deadbeats:
NPB? - After what YOU consider to be a reasonable wait for payment
FVF? - At the earliest opportunity after filing the NPB
Neg? - NEVER leave a neg for a deadbeat.
The seller is the only party who has the potential to be hurt by it. As a seller, you're stuck with the neg until the moon crashes into the earth. Buyers can (and do) just trash the account and open a new one.
Now you will see the usual posters pop up telling you to neg the deadbeats "for the good of the community". Do it if you wish but IMO it would be a poor course of action.
posted on April 18, 2001 04:14:26 PM new
I realize that because of what I sell (books) I get a more mature buyer most of the time than do those who sell in other categories. But I have had a few deadbeats and have left a neg for every one of them unless they were NARU first. I believe I've left 4 or 5 total.
Not one of them has given me a retaliatory neg. Maybe it is partly luck, but I think it is also because I (1) gave them ample time to pay, even with all their excuses, (2) was ALWAYS polite and professional in my emails to them (3)just stated the facts calmly in the neg.
I think SOMETIMES people get retaliatory negs because they have entered into a battle of words with the buyer, have gotten angry and let it show in their emails, and then have left a really mean, ugly negative.
jcmaya - you do what you feel is right for you. If it will be devastating to you if you get a retaliatory neg, then don't leave one. Wait until you have enough positives to feel you can "afford" it, and then leave negatives for those who should have them. Don't let a nonpaying bidder spoil eBaying for you - they are going to come along now and then, so just accept it as one of the negative things that goes with any business. When I get a deadbeat, I remind myself of the nice things I had stolen from my B&M location - at least now, a thief can't get his hands on the item until we send it to him.
posted on April 18, 2001 04:44:29 PM new
Dont let it get to you. If they stiff you show no mercy, file for your fees. They have no one but them selfs to blame.
Reddeers letter is good, use it. just hang in there. Good luck.
posted on April 18, 2001 06:01:57 PM new
Thanks everyone for your advice, I really needed to talk about this problem. I guess I was spoiled by my first customers, they all played the game according to the rules.
I was very surprised because these buyers have really good feedback and I didn't expect them to be a problem. I think I will file on the first one and wait for the second one a little longer. I certainly don't feel like giving anyone a neg at this stage of the game, especially high feedback buyers, but I think they know that and are depending on me not wanting a negative. Anyway, all of your advice makes sense to me. Thanks again.
posted on April 18, 2001 08:42:32 PM new
When you talk about feedback there are two kinds of feedback, buying and selling. There are many people with high feedback, from over 100 to several thousand who rarely if ever make purchases with their ebay ID. So it goes much beyond the surface. I have only positive feedback and over 100 and I can only attribute less than 5 of them to things that I sold (Things like promotional phonecards that I was given for free and sold at a low enough price to net only enough to buy a candy bar. I just wanted to sell them to somebody who might want them since I was going to never use the airtime). I am what most sellers consider "good for whatever he bids on because he has made good on about 100 other auctions". My guess is that your buyer has very little feedback from buying but lots of feedback from selling. I am at a point where seller don't hold my checks the full 10 days because once they see the check clear they ship it even if the 10 days is not up.
Buyers go through a lot more IDs than sellers because sellers must build up a level of feedback to demonstrate their credibility, but buyers can just create a new ID if they get negged.
posted on April 19, 2001 05:50:47 AM new
I always leave a neg for deadbeats. It doesn't matter to me how high or low their feedback number is.
And, for me, I do find it helpful to be able to look through a buyer's feedback to determine if they appear to only be paying selectively (ie. winning a lot of auctions, but getting a regular smattering of negs in with their positives). If I see a pattern of selective non-payment or a lot of recent negs, then I'm not so lenient in trying to salvage the sale.
However, if the buyer's record is good, then I'm more willing to be patient up until I have to file FVF or risk losing the fees.
And if sellers refuse to neg the deadbeats, how can other sellers make an informed decision as to how patient they should be? http://bjgrolle.freehomepage.com
posted on April 19, 2001 06:36:17 AM newAnd if sellers refuse to neg the deadbeats, how can other sellers make an informed decision as to how patient they should be?
There is no way for a seller to make this "informed decision". Most deadbeats just open fresh, new, negless account when they receive a neg or two. No biggie.
I'll say it again: Negs don't hurt buyers. They just re-invent themselves faster than a chameleon. It makes no sense for a seller to waste time and "take one for the community" when the end result has zero effect on the deadbeat. As Mr. Spock would say, "That is not logical".
posted on April 19, 2001 06:59:43 AM newNeg? - NEVER leave a neg for a deadbeat.
Don't listen to anyone telling you not to leave negative feedback. It's bad advice.
The notion that Buyers can (and do) just trash the account and open a new one. might apply if the buyer has a feedback profile of less than 10, but the likelihood that someone with feedback over 100 is going to start all over again because of one negative feedback is very remote.
And as far as retaliatory feedback goes, I think the sellers who get retaliated against are opinionated types who leave unnecessarily strong feedback such as DEADBEAT JERK RIPPED ME OFF. MORON!!! BEWARE BEWARE BEWARE!!!!! That's just asking for trouble. All you have to do is leave a simple, non-inflammatory statement saying payment was never received.
And in the rare instance that you do get a negative, don't worry about it. There are as many if not more reasonable people on eBay than unreasonable ones -- especially among book buyers. They understand that people who don't honor their bids can be less than honorable when it comes to leaving feedback too.
Don't listen to anyone telling you not to leave negative feedback. It's bad advice.
This is an opinion (and of course my posts are my opinions also). I'm sure that the poster who made this comment made it based upon personal experience. I made my comments based upon MY personal experience, after comparing my sales to those of other sellers in my categories (who have a few negs on their records). My experience had proven (at least to me) that negs do indeed hurt a seller when the bidder has a choice of sellers.
You can (and you must) decide how you will handle deadbeats yourself after weighing the input from the posters here,taking into account your own "style" and personality. Just keep in mind that it's YOUR feedback profile at stake, and the posters here (myself included) WILL NOT be helped or hurt by your decision. You are the only one here in a position to profit or suffer from any business desicion that you make. Take the suggestions offered here, evaluate them, and then decide what you feel is best for YOU and YOUR business. And don't feel that you have an obligation to "support the community". I've been on ebaY for quite a while now and I can tell you that THERE IS NO COMMUNITY, just a bunch of sellers trying their best to make a living or a little extra cash. Free enterprise at its best.
posted on April 19, 2001 09:40:07 AM new
Thanks everyone, you all have made some very good points, gives me a lot to think about. I have learned so much reading this board. I believe in Karma, it has shown up in my life many times. So maybe that will be the way to go. File for fees and get on with selling.
posted on April 19, 2001 12:45:01 PM newAnd don't feel that you have an obligation to "support the community". I've been on ebaY for quite a while now and I can tell you that THERE IS NO COMMUNITY, just a bunch of sellers trying their best to make a living or a little extra cash.
Yeah, I guess that explains why so many sellers here devote their valuable time and energy to helping other sellers who come seeking advice and assistance -- because we don't care, because we have no sense of community, because really we're all just whores defending our own crummy street corners.
The picture you paint in your posts is bleak, bitter and grossly inaccurate. I feel you do us all a disservice, especially new sellers, by using this forum to disseminate such negativity regarding our profession.
posted on April 19, 2001 01:35:51 PM newThe picture you paint in your posts is bleak, bitter and grossly inaccurate.
I would disagree. ebaY provides an opportunity for all to have a thriving business. But there is also a healthy spirit of competition on ebaY AND Auctionwatch (as there well should be). Most of the posters here have a genuine desire to help other sellers and buyers.
But there is no sense of communitity on ebaY. Yes, there is a willingness to help others on these boards. I have been helped immensely myself by reading the posts here and asking questions, and I try to give help when asked. That DOES NOT mean there is a sense of community on ebaY. The posters on the AW boards are but a minute fraction of all ebaY users (buyers and sellers alike).
The originator of this thread asked for advice. Several people gave it, including me. My advice was specifically given in response to the questions asked. I believe that advice to be sound advice based on my own personal experience.
posted on April 19, 2001 02:20:02 PM new That DOES NOT mean there is a sense of community on ebaY. The posters on the AW boards are but a minute fraction of all ebaY users (buyers and sellers alike).
Here at AW we have a good cross-section of eBayers, people who buy and sell everything from fine antiques to fine pornography. I think we are eBay in microcosm, and that what you see here is a fair indicator of the whole.
