posted on April 19, 2001 02:11:29 PM new
I just had an auction cancelled for the first time. I can't even find it in my closed auctions, though the last time I looked it was up fairly high. The ebay email said it violated copyright. Is there a new rule against auctions for ARCs [advance reading copies]? Has this happened to you? I sent an email reply asking for clarification.
posted on April 19, 2001 02:24:55 PM new
Hi Keziak,
That's bad news. Was it an advance copy of a book that has yet to hit bookstores? If not, all I can think is that the author or publisher had it pulled because the advance copy contains significant changes from the published version and they don't want it in circulation.
posted on April 19, 2001 02:58:28 PM new
I beleive this is much like
"For Your Consideration VHS Tapes"
These items are often given for free with a stipulation they maynot be resold.
Check the books dustcover or first couple pages there may be a note.
Joe B
posted on April 19, 2001 03:09:24 PM new
Ebay didn't used to pull them but probably is doing it because of VERO. It is getting very hard to purchase computer software as they keep ending most of them because they don't meet OEM standards...
It probably has to do with something about no resale on promotional items. Many states even have laws about reselling items obtained for free under the context of their use as promotional or trial use. Next time you go to a local (non-chain) video store you might ask them about the free promo videos they get. I know two different people who own video rental stores and they get in the mail at least 1 video a day, but these video can only be used for promotional purposes and they are under contract to pay fines for reselling them. In fact, after the video has been used for promotions on the instore TV's, it normally ends up in their personal collection because every 10 minutes warning appear at the bottom of the screen telling that resale is prohibited, etc...
posted on April 19, 2001 03:19:32 PM new
Yes, I have two nice "promotional use only" video movies with the on-screen warnings... I bought them in a second hand store for about a buck each. They look like nice items for a collector but I guess I can't sell them on ebay, right? Too bad.
posted on April 19, 2001 03:25:53 PM new
Folks, this stuff is like Software, read carefuly before selling. If it says "Not for Resale" and you put it on ebay (in front of the whole world) someone (read that "busybody" ) is going to email ebay, and your auction will get pulled.
posted on April 19, 2001 03:39:31 PM new
Look at your book. I think it says right in there that it can't be sold. I bought a couple at a garage sale and I am sure it said that in there. The person selling them worked at the place and got them free then turned around and sold them. I just wanted to read them so I didn't even try and sell them.
posted on April 19, 2001 03:48:03 PM new
If this is the [new?] policy, I will abide by it, but ebay is chock-full of pre-publication ARCs of various kinds. I've sold a bunch myself. My guess is they got a complaint about this title and cancelled it, but in that case, does it actually violate a consistent policy? If so, why are other auctions for ARCs not cancelled?
Or is that a naive question?
keziak, who seems to remember that at one time ebay was going to have a whole category for ARC's but I never saw it established
posted on April 19, 2001 05:53:43 PM new
I just had my first auction pulled too, for an advance copy of a CD. Even though it didn't say promo or not for sale, they yanked it. I'm not arguing their right to do so, but what really burns me is that 7 other sellers still have the exact same CD up for sale, some with auctions ending before mine and some after--the descriptions are almost identical. So how does Ebay decide what stays and what goes in a situation like this? Why did I get singled out? Competitive seller, outbid buyer? If it was the record company you'd think they'd catch them all. They really need to be more consistent over there, or at least define more clearly what is and isn't copyright infringement in their eyes.
posted on April 19, 2001 06:01:07 PM new
Hi, keziak - I am amazed that your auction was cancelled - if it was because it was an ARC, then someone must have reported it - but there are currently 430 auctions on eBay with ARC in the title, and 1108 completed in the last 30 days; 12 of those sold for $100.00 or more.
As I am sure you know, these have been collected by book collectors for years. I have sold a number of them on eBay, and never thought there might be a problem, as all the booksellers I know sell them when they have them (especially those who deal in modern firsts). Was it a book that has not been released by the publisher yet? That's the only thing that MIGHT make sense. ARC's are, in my opinion, a legitimate collectible. Many authors, publishing people, booksellers, etc. collect them and have for a long time.
Please keep us posted as to what you hear from eBay.
posted on April 19, 2001 06:35:02 PM new
So far I got an automatic response saying, in essence "we already told you why, what more do you want?" so I emailed them right back. I want to know, is there a policy or not? If the rule is, no ARCs before the book is published, then say so, and get rid of the competition. Who is going to police this anyway, to be sure the books are out?
I did find out the book went up to $50, but I don't know if someone complained or they are cracking down or what.
posted on April 19, 2001 06:55:02 PM new
ARCs of popular books are avidly collected and the market seems wide and open. They say "NOT FOR RESALE", I'm not sure but I think that the legality of reselling them is a grey area. ebaY VERO appears to default to accepting any infringement claim a vero makes. I think that only the copyright owner or their agents are authorized to make the complaint.
posted on April 19, 2001 08:26:17 PM new
Pet peeve: When you direct pertinent questions to the originator of the thread but originator doesn't answer them.
Two people (one being me) have now asked whether the book has been released for sale yet. Twice the question has been ignored.
posted on April 20, 2001 05:35:46 AM new
sorry, didn't mean to ignore any questions! The book is NOT out yet. I meant to say, but wasn't clear, that if they have a policy against listing them prior to the hardcover release, I won't list them, but I would like to see this as a consistent policy. Maybe it's like figmente said, they only pull auctions if the copyright holder complains?
posted on April 20, 2001 05:51:56 AM new
capotasto "Yes, I have two nice "promotional use only" video movies with the on-screen warnings... I bought them in a second hand store for about a buck each. They look like nice items for a collector but I guess I can't sell them on ebay, right? Too bad."
Go ahead and list them. There are 100s of these listed at any time on ebay and even though they are against the rules, ebay looks the other way. If these tapes include episodes of ER, Seinfeld, or The West Wing, make sure you write down the names of all bidders ... when ebay vero-scum ends these you will at least have a potential customer.
posted on April 20, 2001 07:19:18 AM new
>Somebody selling the same thing probably emailed safeharbor because they are trying to eliminate competition.<
I thought about that but that doesn't explain why six or seven other people are still selling the same thing. Wouldn't the competitor report all of the competition?
As for whether or not a promo/advance item has since been released, Ebay responded to my question about whether it was OK to relist a promo item once it's in the stores. They told me that it would still be a copyright violation if the item is marked "promotional," "not for sale," or anything similar.
posted on April 20, 2001 09:24:20 AM new
If the book isn't out yet, then I can fully understand it being pulled. If I were the publisher or author, I would have it pulled too.
I'm not saying you're wrong to offer the book, keziak (I would have listed it too). But when you look at it from their point of view it is understandable. Here's their product, their investment, which they haven't seen a dime from yet, meanwhile a seller on eBay who had nothing to do with creating/publishing the book is turning a profit on their creation before they are.
posted on April 20, 2001 11:32:46 AM new
I can see that, but the fact is, publishers freely distribute them to drum up pre-publication interest, reviews, and what have you. Bibliofind is also full of them, as is half.com.
I have no problem abiding by a rule set by ebay that says "no advance proofs" or "not until book is published" but I do have a problem with spotty enforcement. To my mind, that's not an ebay rule, it's just someone complaining and then ebay acts.
I note that noone at ebay is responding to my direct questions about this book. Meanwhile, I have another ARC listed at this very moment and it hasn't been cancelled. So is it a rule or just "do it so long as noone complains"?
posted on April 21, 2001 09:04:17 AM new
If one of my auctions ever gets cancelled like that, reast assured taht I would complain about very single identical item listed.... for the next month or two!
