morgantown
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posted on June 13, 2001 06:59:03 PM new
Well, Adrian is sick of negativity, I'm sick of something too!
I am sick to death of reading on these boards "just build it into your opening bid." The "it" being fees, item cost, or what ever.
We, like others here, run actual, honest-to-God auctions with no reserve and low opening bid; consequently, bidders set the final price. Item cost and fees cannot be built into opening bid.
Now for the best part!
With the arrival of eBay StoreFronts, you can do all the BUILDING you want. Build, fold, and roll all those fees to your hearts delight! Yikes!
Thanks a bunch for reading this - I feel much better now. 
MTown
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morgantown
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posted on June 13, 2001 07:03:13 PM new
I just realized the title of this thread should have been Build, Fold, and Roll!
MTown
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tiggressoflove
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posted on June 13, 2001 07:06:47 PM new
you forgot to mention that the more you put fees into your opening bid, the more the fees
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morgantown
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posted on June 13, 2001 07:09:33 PM new
tiggressoflove! So true! Now that was funny! Thanks.
Mtown
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MrBusinessMan
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posted on June 13, 2001 07:13:45 PM new
Item cost and fees cannot be built into opening bid.
You're absolutely right! Statements like "Just build the fees into your starting bids" pop up like clockwork, yet no one has taken the time to explain the logic behind them. I have analyzed this concept until it gave me a migraine but I have never been able to come up with a scenario where it could actually work.
There are only two ways that I know of to truly recoup fees:
1) Charge a handling charge on top of the actual postage charge.
2) Charge a flat-rate shipping and handling charge.
If there are any others, please enlighten us.
[ edited by MrBusinessMan on Jun 13, 2001 07:15 PM ]
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Microbes
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posted on June 13, 2001 07:24:41 PM new
I have to chime in here and say I agree. What does the opening bid have to do with the hammer price at an auction? (other than starting it low gets the bidding started)
>1) Charge a handling charge on top of the actual postage charge.
That's how I handle it on heavy items.
>2) Charge a flat-rate shipping and handling charge.
That's how I handle it on light wieght items.
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amy
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posted on June 13, 2001 07:44:25 PM new
Morgantown, SOOO TRUE!!!
MrBusinessMan...well, there is one way to build it into the opening bid but it could get you kicked off ebay...shill the auction
(and just in case there is anyone out there who doesn't realize I am being sarcastic...I am. I would never truely advocate anyone shill their auctions)
[ edited by amy on Jun 13, 2001 07:45 PM ]
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reston_ray
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posted on June 14, 2001 07:32:21 AM new
We're all looking for answers or better answers and as the problems see to get more difficult and complex so to does the frustration seem to increase among sellers.
Nice to see that a sense of humor still survives. I needed that.
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celebrityskin
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posted on June 14, 2001 08:09:23 AM new
"We, like others here, run actual, honest-to-God auctions with no reserve and low opening bid"
Well congradulations!
The point is simple... if you don't "build" the cost of doing business... postage.. shipping supplies...office supplies... fees and countless other costs of just doing business.. into what you sell.... you WILL FAIL.
You buy something for $5 and sell for $6.
You are LOSING MONEY!! Not making $$
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packer
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posted on June 14, 2001 10:25:17 AM new
celebrityskin,
Well that may be true if you sell new products.
Tell me how it can be done when you sell collectables and don't really know the true value of it till the bidding is over?
The bidders determine the value. It is a well known fact that if you start the bid high to get what "you think" it is worth PLUS then tacking on a couple extra bucks for exspenses more often then not you will see NO BIDS!
I too am SICK TO DEATH of hearing build it into your opening bid.
AS A SIDE NOTE:
I think EVERYONE should state what area they sell in to give all of us a better understanding of your position on certain topics. Do you sell Retail or Collectables thats all the specifics you need to give?
Thank you.....I SELL VINTAGE - COLLECTABLES
packer
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imabrit
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posted on June 14, 2001 11:06:59 AM new
There is really no simple answer for this but it does not make sense to say just roll it into the opening bid.
Fact is buyers want to buy as cheap as possible thats a given.Most bidders probably have never been to a real auction.Where bids start at all different ranges and not at 1.00.
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sun818
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posted on June 14, 2001 11:16:04 AM new
I am not blaming the buyer here, but I've noticed that on some auction descriptions, they will go for the low bid, but pay $8.00 to $15.00 on shipping for a $3.00 item. Hello buyer??
I wish eBay would include another field where shipping price of first item is an option in the browsing listings. This way I don't get sucked into a seller's listing that overcharges on shipping.
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amy
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posted on June 14, 2001 11:49:43 AM new
Sun818...you remind me of a bidder I had recently.
I had a ceramic jar up for sale. I thought it should sell for around $10 and originally listed it for $9.99 + $6.50 shipping. It didn't get a bid so I relisted it for $4.99 + $6.50 shipping (hoping it would go to $10).
I had a person bid on it and then email me questioning why my shipping on a $4.99 item was SO HIGH. I explained that it was a good size piece, was made of a heavy material (ceramic) and that the shipping was very close to what it would cost to ship...possibly even a little under the actual postage + insurance.
It closed at $4.99 (I'm not always right about what I think an item will get LOL). I shipped it yesterday adding insurance because I had mentioned it in the email and felt obligated to add insurance (under $10 items I normally self insure). The total paid to the post office on it was $7.35...I lost 85 cents + the cost of the packing materials.
Price of item does not determine shipping costs...weight of item + packing materials does.
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sun818
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posted on June 14, 2001 12:05:21 PM new
Hi Amy. I should clarify. When sellers charge $8 to $15 for an item that will only cost $3.90 to ship, then it is avoiding fees and misleading buyers into thinking that they are bidding on a great deal until they read the fine print.
No doubt your ceramic jar justifies the shipping you charge. I sell something that weighs 13oz. to ship. I charge $4.00 s&h even though it costs me $3.00 for shipping and the box I have to buy. So, a $1.00 handling fee is reasonable to me.
A $5 to $10 "handling fee" just seems outrageous, that's all. But it works because I at least view the auction description.
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amy
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posted on June 14, 2001 01:45:50 PM new
Ah...different animal then.
Is a $5 handling fee to much? Depends on the buyer's perspective. I don't think one can give a hard and fast rule about how much is to much. BUT...shipping charges should be fully stated in the auction, that way the buyer makes the decision of whether its to high or not BEFORE he places a bid.
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chrisue
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posted on June 14, 2001 04:31:13 PM new
I never could understand how these people charge that kind of shipping....I would never buy a $3.99 item with shipping at $6.50 - UNLESS that was the actual shipping costs. I clearly state in my listings that there is a certain amount of handling charge to be added to the end of the auction and the buyer pays actual shipping costs. What surprises me is that I get complaints all the time about the handling charge. Most of my handling charges are between 75 cents and $1.50!
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Microbes
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posted on June 14, 2001 05:02:17 PM new
packer
>Do you sell Retail or Collectables thats all the specifics you need to give?
Some of what I sell is Collectables, but the bulk of it is not.
Another distinction might also be made. Most everything I sell is "used", and as such, there is no hard and fast "value", and the value is dependent on condition. The difference is with Used merchandise (as opposed to collectable merchandise) people don't tend to get real nick-picky over a few hairline scratches. (and understandably so.)
Most all of what I sell is "Used".
Amy
>BUT...shipping charges should be fully stated in the auction, that way the buyer makes the decision of whether its to high or not BEFORE he places a bid.
That's about the best we can do, really. Any hard, fast rules about it are going to hurt someone. There is to many different types of merchandise sold on ebay to make a hard, it applies to everyone, rule about handling charges. I get a $20 handling fee when I pack up an outboard motor. Costs about 2/3 of that for materials, and close to an hour to do properly. If ebay made a "rule" saying I couldn't charge more than, say a $2.00 fee, I'd be paying FVF's on packing material.
I get NO complaints about the $20 handling fee on outboards. If I tryed it on smaller stuff, people would curse me out.
[ edited by Microbes on Jun 14, 2001 05:20 PM ]
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sun818
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posted on June 14, 2001 05:20:53 PM new
> Is a $5 handling fee to much?
> Depends on the buyer's perspective
I would agree it is the buyer's perspective. But I feel $5 is too much to charge.
My point is that sellers that charge actual shipping are hurt by sellers that charge a big handling fee ($5+).
As a buyer, I'll view an auction that has a lower bid price. If the shipping is high, I will pass. At least I viewed the auction, and now have an opportunity to bid. But if an item was bid up, I would not even bother viewing the description.
Hmmm... <joke> Maybe I'll copy a seller's description that charges big handling fee, but charge actual shipping. I wonder what would happen? </joke>
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Microbes
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posted on June 14, 2001 05:25:12 PM new
sun818
>My point is that sellers that charge actual shipping are hurt by sellers that charge a big handling fee ($5+).
I was editing my post (directly above yours) to add some further insights. I have no problem with what you're saying as long as you don't "Want eBay to do something about it". $5.00 won't begin to cover the cost of packing some of my stuff.
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amy
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posted on June 14, 2001 05:58:34 PM new
Sun818...you said
>My point is that sellers that charge actual shipping are hurt by sellers that charge a big handling fee($5+).
This is called competition. This is called business...it isn't a game where everyone must play "nice". If those who are charging a big handling fee are hurting other sellers then the other sellers need to look to their business and see how they can improve it.
Our business succeeds or fails by OUR efforts...we can't expect others to tailor their business to help US succeed.
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Microbes
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posted on June 14, 2001 06:36:03 PM new
amy
>...it isn't a game where everyone must play "nice"
Boy your right there. I see people in my catagory sometimes putting BIN's on stuff at 1/3 what it's worth.
Saw one this morning...an item that should bring $800 + had a BIN of less than $500 So I emailed one of my best repeat buyers and let him now about a bargin (the seller had stellar feedback, or I wouldn't have done it). It was "off the market" 15 minutes later. Now I can sell my compairable item, and get what it's worth.
I thought (for about 30 seconds) of placing a "minumum" bid on the item, so the seller would get true market value, but I like what I did better. My repeat buyer has already profusly thanked me, the seller can't be to bent, he set the BIN, and it's one less peice of underpriced merchadise I have to compete with.
Yeah, this is business.
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amy
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posted on June 14, 2001 08:19:49 PM new
Microbes...how nice of you to help a regular customer get a bargain! I would have seriously thought of buying it myself for resale
The seller may have been full aware of the item's normal price but got it at such a bargain that the $500 represented a very nice profit and by selling it low may have expected to build a loyal customer of the buyer. (he may have figured the buyer would check back frequently for more "bargains" )
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MrBusinessMan
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posted on June 14, 2001 08:23:36 PM new
My point is that sellers that charge actual shipping are hurt by sellers that charge a big handling fee ($5+).
Not true at all. Everything else being equal, the seller who charges a higher handling fee is handing the competition a competitive advantage on a silver platter.
Case in point:
You and I sell identical widgets. We both start the bidding at $1.00, no reserve. You state in your TOS that you charge actual postage for shipping. I state that I charge a $5 handling fee on top of actual postage.
I have just given you a tremendous competitive advantage. Why would a bidder bid on MY item over yours when they know they'll pay $5 less for your item than for mine (given the same winning bid amount)?
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Microbes
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posted on June 14, 2001 08:32:01 PM new
Amy, I thought about buying it for re-sale, but it was a heavy item, so there would have been some shipping costs involved. I would have had about $550 in it, plus my TIME buying it, and more TIME selling it. I would have still made money on it, but not the margin I normaly try to get. But, for a retail buyer it was a "steal", and if someone is going to get a steal, it might as well be one of my best customers.
The buyer is going to pay less shipping than I would, he's located MUCH closer to the seller than I am.
Edited to add: I don't think, looking thru the sellers feedback that he normally sells this type of merchandise. I think this was a personal item.
[ edited by Microbes on Jun 14, 2001 08:35 PM ]
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marble
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posted on June 14, 2001 09:01:34 PM new
This may sound old-fashioned, but I think the best way to recoup fees is to write auction titles that will come up in searches, put a lot of work into writing your auction description so it accurately describes the item, take good clear photos and trim out all the excess background, and schedule your auctions to close when people are likely to be at their computers.
And, make sure you list stuff that will sell for lots of money.
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Microbes
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posted on June 14, 2001 09:21:48 PM new
marble:
>This may sound old-fashioned...
Your absolutly right, like the man on TV say's "We make our money the old fashioned way, We earn it."
Edited cuz I called you mable, sorry.
[ edited by Microbes on Jun 14, 2001 09:23 PM ]
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sun818
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posted on June 14, 2001 11:28:33 PM new
Why would a bidder bid on MY item over yours when they know they'll pay $5 less for your item than for mine (given the same winning bid amount)?
I agree with this statement. I always try to win an auction with the lowest shipped price (assuming feedback is good).
If there are many items available for purchase, I sort by lowest bid price. Those that display first will likely have high handling fees since bidding amounts will be based on total price.
So, the competitive advantage is with a bidder viewing your description and having the opportunity to bid.
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