posted on June 13, 2001 08:00:57 PM new
I QUIT! I QUIT! I QUIT!
I'm sick of these people who think they can cuss at me for not mailing an item before they pay for it. I was told tonight (in so many words) that I'm a scam because I could have shipped the item and it been recieved five times over (auction ended about 10 days ago.)
So, except for a few auctions I expect to go high, I'm quitting. Come fall when I can handle being cussed at regularly again I will sell again (maybe only sell the junk I have now.)
I will work harder at Amazon and half.com to pay my bills, but I am absolutely THROUGH with this getting cussed at bit! Its not MY fault they are deadbeats. Get a life, get a job, get a money order!
I have about 50 things that are waiting on people to pay me for. I can't wait until they are out of this house and I don't have to deal with ebay again! (At least until fall to clear out my inventory.)
posted on June 13, 2001 08:09:47 PM new
I have let people be late on payments up to three months before. But never to receive payment and having people cussing me (this is the first its happened in 2 years of selling on ebay). I have 1171 positves, 4 neutrals (2 of which were postives changed to neutrals because the people were NARUed, and one neg which was left by a minor because I don't accept Canadian dollars.)
I have never had people cuss me before. And what gets me is NOT ONE person who has cussed me has payed me for the item!
posted on June 13, 2001 08:14:25 PM new
I wouldn't quit for that. Just email them that they have now forfeited their priviledge to do business with you and request FVFs. Wait to leave feedback for a few days. Don't rush into this, do it when you are fully rested and calm.
posted on June 13, 2001 08:16:14 PM new
I've had a few cases where the person really thought they had paid me but didn't.They are usually embarrased when they discover they never paid for the item and sometimes get a little hostile,but I just try to be as nice as I can about it,they'll get over it.Most end up a happy customer.
posted on June 13, 2001 08:16:46 PM new
Actually, I have thought this over and decided I have to get out of ebay for my sanity. I'm proud of my excellent customer service, but I just can't handle it much more.
I'm going to do more with amazon and half.com, and maybe come back to ebay full time in the fall, but as for now, that's it. I can't take any more.
posted on June 13, 2001 08:35:30 PM new
Jenn: I quit selling on Ebay for similar reasons. As you can see I am still watching the climate via AuctionWatch. The fact is, if you are burned out, it's okay to quit selling. I am so happy I did, and I know I can go back to it whenever I want. I played long and hard at the game and we all have our reasons for staying or leaving. Maybe it's just the straw and the camel's back. For me it was a customer who left me a negative criticizing my product, before he ever contacted me for a refund which I would have happily refunded. Silly reason to quit Ebay, but I must have been ready to stop anyway.<p>Just wanted to balance out the discussion, it seems like people are encouraging you to stay at Ebay. Don't feel guilty about it! Life is short!
posted on June 13, 2001 08:59:55 PM new
We get hostile people now and again.
Alot of this has to do with how you notify them they won.
Our document is'nt friendly or bad. But it does say exactly what happens if they dont pay.
If your a business I have the name of a company more than happy to buy all outstanding orders. Bids being legal and binding contracts as a business you can use collections. They'll pay you double the amount owed, lop 18% off it and go after the money and allll their fee's incurred. So that $10 skip out ends up paying $500 and learning a valuable lesson in being responsible.
Secondly, we make it crystal clear that we can file for a judgement and should a judge deem it valid serve it on any assets found, employer etc.
Finally, dont be afraid to fax such things off to authorities local to the buyer. Let the authorities know you wish to file a formal complaint against the person. Dont be afraid to email their ISP and CC the buyer. Request the place a watch on the users account as he had "done this to you" and while law does not allow the ISP to be held libel for user activities thats ONLY true *IF* the ISP is uninformed.
Most will react by counciling the user. Using their services to enter into contracts they then breach/defraud will be a breach of 99.95% of ISP's user terms of service and conduct code. Just like people swearing in email.
You should hear them swear after a place like MSN suspends their access for 30-90 days and still has every right to take their money. We've had people terminated, whack. All done.
I realize its upsetting to you. Upsetting to us too. Upsetting to all good sellers when they see such activities. But no, we are not about to allow the "few" to get us bent enough to really get angered. Thats not worth it.
Use the resources available to you as a seller. The commissions refund request. Wait the 60 days after sale date, on the last day leave a searing feedback. For example, you say you have not been paid. Dont put "Didnt pay" in the feedback. Put accept certified checks only or cancel bids and thats perfectly valid. With us, if we dont get paid for 45 days or whatall past our terms we dont trust a "check or money order or credit card" from the character, certified funds only.
As they go bidding virtually any seller that sees that feedback will go... "Sure, I'll sell it, certified check only".
Our payout rate at eBay is upwards of 95%.
We send reminder notices for payment too.
Just like a phone company multiple attempts at payment before pursuing other actions.
Keep all emails. Send them off to the ISP. File a complaint.
We've had folks say "I am a police officer" or Attroney, SEND IT FIRST. Ok... One phone call validates that info. Misrepresenting banks, authorities, attorneys etc. Felony.
Why should YOU let rotten buyers affect YOUR lifestyle or attitude?
You are not at a complete loss as to what you can do. AOL, MSN and many others like nothing better than to see users doing such things. THey can call in the full contracts those users agreed to. We had a guy go bats, swearing and cussin' etc. Sent it to MSN. Before that, told the guy... Would you like me to report your vulgar dialog to MSN?
He wrote back with more cussin' and Go ahead! F' this and F that. They called in his contract and he had one of those $400 MSN rebate type deals. Best I can figure cost him nearly $700 as the contracts of those deals are VERY specific. I know people who have been terminated from AOL for being out of control and its not just whap. They hit them for the full years fee's and WHAP.
All types of folks out there in Cyberspace. DONT let the bad ones dictate your attitude, they then win. Its not a game and thats what they are playing. Either A. Let them just bounce off, your out a few bucks or .25 in listing fee's etc. Or say, well heck, I'll play.
I personally find 99.9% of the people who curse and cuss are VERY stupid. I can reply to email in a way where I say what we need to say as a business and KNOW they will say the wrong thing. Turn that over to the proper places like ISP's, their local authorities etc. And BLAMO or at the VERY least their activities tend to come to a screeching halt.
The fact that MSN/AOL whatall will place a "watch" (log) on the account means most of these folks just got SEVERELY curtailed. They hit child porn sites, warez sites etc. and ISP's dont hesitate to act on it. In fact more and more are so it shows authorities that they are indeed trying to do something about it so if you can hand them examples on silver platters they like nothing better.
If your going to REACT to them (some we do, some we dont) then DONT react. THINK. THEN react. 99.95% of the people who "go off" are about as bright as a 2 watt lightbulb. The FIRST thing we ask for when sending our win notice emails is their contact information. Name, Address, City State Zip. Thats ALL the confirmation we need that the contract is in place. They responded to it. eBay terms of service clearly show we set terms of sale.
So if someone says "I'll pay when it arrives" thats not our terms. They leave a negative we provide the proof to eBay, they left negative basing on setting terms of sale. eBay has always been kind enough to remove these for us. We had one last week, Doesnt accept paypal. Yep, thats right. Our negative was removed. The one we left him stayed.
If they really incist on paying before it arrives say OK, but it must ship FedEx. Provide FedEx with his statements of acceptance. He pays all COD fee's, insurance etc. If they deliver it and he skips out on delivery take it to authorities as mail fraud. Most people dont realize the weight UPS and FEDEX carry. Most people dont realize messing with either of them LEGALLY is the same as messing with the Post Office. Tampering, still a felony. Theft, Felony. Service used by buyer or seller to engage in fraud felony. The difference is UPS and FEDEX react, the postal service does not.
You prove in documents someones playing with you there is not a law enforcement dept. in the land that wont take them to task and often make an example of them so when its all said and done they tell all their friends... Man you best not do that!
Like I said, most of them are so stupid instead of getting mad I am actually entertained. As they just step and step and step right in it. Then I simply pull the rug out from under them. Fortunately we dont get too many of these types. But we have had our share and then when the "starts to hit the fan" they become the most humble folks you ever want to see. After an officer walks up to their door with a summons to appear and answer for their activities. THEN they want it all fixed up. We've had two people who by court order complete loss of Internet access.
If they enter unto the Internet in any way shape or form and are caught they'll face felony fraud charges and a minimum 2 year sentance plus contempt of court.
So... just think... thats all it takes. Or ignore em'. Dont let them detroy your income.
Understand what you have here is someone thats "Getting off" on getting you bent. So either just say, move on. Or say, well thats the way its played huh? Ok... I'll play but I am playing for a win with real results.
Dont let them get your gopher though, thats EXACTLY what they want. They're sitting back laughing, your so upset your crying. Take that energy instead and direct it to clear thought, and blow THEM out of the water.
posted on June 13, 2001 09:06:17 PM new
It's easier to do what I do when they F with you before sending money- void their sale and get a FVF refund. Believe me, they will not contact you anymore.
Jenndiggy, I've worked in many companies and the customers are always the same, always a few manipulative, mean, obnoxious and pathetic human beings. I know working for yourself it easy to take these jerkoffs personally, but since you're the boss, you can tell these nuts to take a hike and just don't deal with them. If you already received their money, laugh at them and say I got your money...ha ha ha, and I'm going to blow it on a nice facial...ha ha ha.
posted on June 13, 2001 09:12:51 PM new
He does it all the time.....and I love it......
Hey whynot......please give us your eBay id .....I’ve
had little luck finding you on the big E...
ONE LOVE.......
posted on June 13, 2001 10:03:16 PM new
Jenny, If you don't mind the question....What kind of stuff do you sell?
I sometimes run into kooks, but for the most part very nice people and never once have I received a nasty message from a buyer.
I have had one bounced check, that the buyer told me it would bounce before it even got to me, she was very apologetic and sent a MO in record time. I have had to file only 2 NPB requests, and these 2 buyers were out of control bidders who were NARU'ed within a few days of the end of the auctions. I would say 98% of the time I get payment within 5 or 6 days and rarely have to wait longer than 10 to 14 days. This has been over almost 4 years and a few thousand transactions.
I read about all of the problems sellers have and I have reached the conclusion that it is often *what* you sell, not how you sell it, that determines what kind of people bid, and all of the problems I read about on these boards.
If I had the problems you describe I would want to give up too......
posted on June 13, 2001 10:23:40 PM new
I sell a lot of Christian stuff, lately some Nintendo stuff that I picked up at a garage sale. I've been cussed over a CD (not a Christian one), a Nintendo item, and a Carebears book this week.
Other than Christian stuff its usually garage sale finds. Noting really out of the ordinary for me to be selling though.
Things seem quite crazy at eBay right now. I have been selling for almost 2 yrs now and the last 4-6 weeks have been horrible.
I have had the occasional problem, but nothing like this! People not paying, crazy bidders going nuts driving the price into the stratosphere and then not replying to email.
It is quite demoralizing and I have had the same impulse as you did, but it does pay to remember that the majority of buyers are quite wonderful, they are polite and often delighted with the purchase and some of them send nice cards and notes. Maybe you are right though, a break is in order, before I start to feel dread when I see the zero beside a bidders ID.
posted on June 13, 2001 11:19:27 PM new"One of my nonpaying bidders just added me to his list of people he sends urban legends to! UGH!"
Now that is funny! Sorry to be laughing at your expense jenndiggy, but that struck me funny
On an unrelated sidenote, my son has a stuffed guinea pig he has had since birth (he is 6), which is now rather ratty-looking. Its name is Diggy. Your posts always make me think of it...
posted on June 13, 2001 11:27:28 PM new
I'm on several past bidders' urban legends lists. (like Madyln Murray O'Hair being resurrected to get Touched by an Angel taken off Canadian TV or whatever that one is gets sent to me a LOT!)
To be on a non paying bidder's list is just really bad!
I just fed my 2 live guinea pigs. My username on here (not jenndiggy on ebay) is from when the song "Get Jiggy With It" was popular and my friends changed it to Get Jenndiggy with it. Everyone did the Jenndiggy during spring break of my senior year of college.
posted on June 13, 2001 11:37:21 PM new
I type at Warp 2 basically. A little over 100 WPM average.
I've been at keyboards for years. I am surprised it has not decided to genetically engineer itself and attach itself to me. I cant even see the letters on the keyboard I love anymore... This keyboard ROCKS!
Warp 6 Sulu! There are Strawberries on Mars and I MUST have them.
Our actions w/ buyers is very much dependent on where they come from we sell at many places.
If someone spam subscribes you to a service be sure again and let their ISP know. DONT email them that.
Send ONE email to the ISP noting whats transpired... Dont get "flippant". Very business like. Wear a tie if it works for ya.
CC that mail to the looser. Or even call the ISP, I've done that before! Even more fun!
The bad bidders with 4 negatives, already NARU'd and you look at their bid activities and suspect 15 other's would have left neg's too had they the chance??? Wonderful time to call up an ISP and the "year deal" they paid in advance just ended up getting 8 months of it yanked w/ no service.
It all depends if its worth it. We've had people ring up $150 worth of stuff and then think they are pinkin' us around on payment. Then after 10 weeks the certified mail appears on the doorstep saying they now owe $275 and blah blah blah....
We even had to have a restraining order served on an "purported art teacher" who went batsomatic apparently, lost her job, and decided THAT DAY to buy from us and man o man... Tell ya what... I've met some doozies but this lady... Interplanetary Batsomatic right from the word GO! About EVERYTHING...
I considered flying down to arkansas with some dirty underwear to see her face to face and say as the commericial goes "Chew on this".
An Art Teacher!!! Ya know... I have always wondered IF LIFE is pretty much pre-destined??? EXACTLY WHO or WHAT decides to send someone like that to our shop to buy? I want to meet em' and buy em' a shrimp cocktail.
I had a seller at amazon INCIST I bought her book!!! LOL... Never bid on a thing at the site... INCISTED... No record, no nuthin'. No proof at all BUT I BOUGHT IT!!!!! She represented herself as a police officer and in calling the Sherriff of the community they started LAUGHING. Turns out yep, I BOUGHT THE BOOK all right... They told me she was the local town "gizmo" basically. Said she was walking down the street earlier that day (we faxed them her mail to us) in Rainboots on a perfect day... So... All types out there.
We do pretty high volume so we expect them we get 2 or 3 a month from various sites.
We've had bidders swear upside down they never bid. They were there, they saw the product but never bid... Damned!!!!
Yeee hawww howdy, send me the computer! I'll pay for it! Beat that puppy into submission to do my work for me since its got a mind of its own while I kick back on the patio slurrpin' down a margarita or 5.
And to answer the will I give our eBay ID out I am afraid I cannot... Way Way too many "Zoom Zoom Zoom's" out there that will go buying cars because someone says "Zoom Zoom Zoom".
One time at eBays forums I left a few tidbts and "Zoom Zoom Zoom!" we had all sortsa gizmos and batsomatics... Like putting a bag full of doggie doo doo's on someones step.
If George Bush is able to tear down a 1 million dollar intranet in the whitehouse and wont accept anything in email then I am not going to leave our user ID at AW....
IF however someone can get a valid vote out of Florida I might reconsider.
I think I need to see a good Godzilla movie, I have too much energy.
posted on June 14, 2001 03:45:21 AM new
Jen, there are lunatic customers out there. Forewarned is fore-armed. After a while, they aren't hard to spot. You get a vibe and pretty much know in advance.
I had a guy who caused me a lot of problems. Paid by Paypal, said his item never arrived. Demanded a refund within 24 hours via Paypal. Right then I knew he was scamming. Of course, for a cheap item like that I didn't even bother to get proof of delivery. (My one mistake, and I don't take Paypal payments any more.)
Anyway, first the guy claimed to be a lawyer, then he said he was a private detective. As proof he sent me a copy of my old address where I lived several years ago. What a f- moron. I sent him my address along with my invoice, he sent payment to me, then he writes me and says, "I'm a private eye and I know you live at [wrong address]." That idiot couldn't detect his way out of a paper bag.
So I told him to go jump in a lake and he went through my feedback history and contacted everyone who ever left me a neg or neutral. He made the usual threats, state attorney's office, mail fraud, etc., etc. He started a mailing list about how I ripped him off if you can believe it. I blocked his emails so he sent me crank mails from a few other addresses.
So, long story short, I listed a rather expensive item and I saw he placed a bid on it using one of his email aliases. I looked at his bidding history and noticed that he was also shilling on his own items. Like I said, not much of a detective, his trail was so easy to follow. I sent the whole lot to SafeHarbor with the emails and headers to show that he was shilling and interfering with my auctions. They suspended him immediately and I had a good laugh over it. I only wish I could have seen his face when he got the boot.
Don't let the bad apples throw you. Understand that they are out there and know that eventually you will have to deal with a nutcase. Just think of the other 9,999 pleasant transactions out of ten thousand and forget about the bad one.
posted on June 14, 2001 05:06:27 AM new
"We've had folks say "I am a police officer" or Attroney, SEND IT FIRST. Ok... One phone call validates that info. Misrepresenting banks, authorities, attorneys etc. Felony."
Representing police officer, STATES attorney, Attorney GENERAL, any state or federal official = felony.
Saying you're an attorney doesn't mean anything. Saying you're attorney so and so and you're not that person (providing the person is real) = probably doesn't mean anything to anyone until the real person finds out.
posted on June 14, 2001 11:44:00 PM new
On the contrary,
It is against the law to misrepresent yourself as an Attorney. Its one of the things very easy to find out just by calling a states BAR Association and they DO pursue it.
You can say your brother in law is an attorney as there is no path to follow and thats second person. However, when someone says, "You better do this... blah blah blah I am an attorney" first thing we do is call their State Bar, ask them, they say "no" we explain the situation and each and everytime have been told to fax them all coorespondance and given a law enforcement address to fax it to as well w/ an addendum of who we have been speaking with at the State Bar.
Real simple why. ANYONE who is willing to represent themselves as a STATE acredited member of that states Bar association can readily misrepresent that state's justice system. This is why to practice law in ANY US State you MUST be acredited by that states BAR. Otherwise, thats all you'd have. I got a bad chicken at Kentucky fried, I'm an attorney. Its the same as saying "I am a judge" or I am a law enforcement officer etc.
Virtually ANY job that requires state certification and misrepresenting onself as that INSTANTLY means you are defrauding someone and "representing" of the state something you are not. Thats why its treated so harshly. Same with the Fed. You best not say to someone "I work with the fed or state IRS" when you dont. As... Should the recipient of such a contact take it to task butts will fry.
The "loon lady" book seller we just let it bounce off. We did not pursue formal actions nor did her law enforcement people. She is "off the web" selling however. Her local authorities did put the stops on that as someone could take it to task and fry her and she's a wire short of a circuit so we are not about to say do it.
Others however... We had a guy in Vermont who said he USED to work for the Vermont AG's offices and blah blah blah... and we knew he was trying to take us for a ride. He was threatening class action all sorts of jibe. In order to have class action must be a class and in class action there are LOTS of legal nuances in order for such events to happen like proving to a judge justifcation, which is quite impossible for him to do as the problems dont and didnt exist.
Basically speaking, he was attempting blackmail and extortion. So we said go right ahead! That made him go even more bats and he crossed the line. We contactes his state authorities, sent all coorespondance recieved coorespondance (phone call followed by snail mail) complied with what they wanted and they literally "hooked em" line and sinker. Hes sunk. We were not privvy to the "results" but it was quite apparent the state AG was OUTRAGED by it.
Like I said... Lots of loons out there. You either let them bounce off or you take em' to task. Most are so dumb they will cross the fine line and at that point simply contact the proper folks and they are all done.
Consider doing it as keeping the info superhighway safe for others to travel.
If you quit, not only do they take the time and money from the auction they skipped out on, but they rob you of your future earning.
Put this in perspective. You said you have over 1000 pos feedback, and you have had how many people cuss you? I'd say if you do the math, the averages are greatly in your faver. i wouls assume you are a christian if you are selling Christian stuff....pray about it.
posted on June 15, 2001 06:19:05 AM new
Jenn, I have days where I want to walk away. Being the sensitive creature that I am one email can ruin my day but..........I look back at my positive feedback, I look at the thank you letters, all of the new online friends I made and the repeat customers, it is worth it.
posted on June 15, 2001 10:36:43 AM new
Well, even though I quit, I went ahead and listed 16 items. Those 16 are doing better for me than anything I've listed in AGES! I'm so excited. And I've dealt with most of the bidders before (limited market) so I know that these sales will go fairly smoothly.
Bill collectors and collections are notorious for overstepping their legal boundaries. I worked for Continental Collections for sometime mainly programming but in that you "see it all".
Most folks have no idea for example that this network is all intertwined, IRS, Banks, Collections. When someones making 800 deposits a year be they all of $10 and think that its gone unnoticed they are fools. Clinton laxed the IRS bigtime over 8 years, or shall I say the democrats. Bush has as of this coming tax year turned them loose again.
Going to ALOT of unahppy campers out there who supplemented income and never paid tax on it. Same with people who's wife's sit home, do eBay, while the hubby's employer is paying all the social security. When self-employed Social Security is called "self-employment tax". I paid $5000 of it last year. No grey areas as far as this stuff goes, its simply a matter of pursuit. Same with interest. The IRS can go out to 102% interest per year in certain circumstances. I was hit with that over 15 years ago. I did some programming of commercial software and was told by "QMI" taxes were all set, 5 years later the IRS came at me and of the measily $16,000 I made they took nearly 12 grand back out of my hide almost fully in interest, I did not get a dime of tax refund for years and years on end, they just kept it and sent me bills for the rest as payments to be made.
But back to collections. Did you know its illegal for collections to call your employer? They do it all the time but its not legal.
People used to wonder as well how come they buy a car and the IRS knows but get 300 rolls of toilet paper, not a thing. Banks reported through the "financial networks" large ticket purchases. Now however Bush wants them reporting ALL deposits made. So for example is someone is credit card poor, not making the payments but is out on the net buying they want them snagged and thats the same with people depositing 500 checks a year with no DBA or "business" account w/ a bank.
The IRS is basically being ripped off right now for hundreds of millions of dollars and thats going to change. Your going to see taxation as a mandate on all web sales coming soon to. Well at least I was sure it was until the republicans lost control of the senate by that guy hopping ship.
This is a different scenario completely. Its not because the fed wants that taxation. Its for purposes of legitimization, to curb fraud. Points of sale would be required to track it basically. Essentially making the scene one of "Uncle Sam knows whos selling and not".
We can all expect ALOT of changes in eCommerce over the next 4 years as the Bush admin is basically anti-internet freedom and very pro internet regulation. And I cant say thats a bad thing. When you look at places like Napster the reasons are clear. Many a study has been done on the subject. If a service comes out that will for example allow high speed web access to download the latest greatest DVD's for example it means the collapse of the US Economy since fully 1/3rd of our economy is "entertainment".
posted on June 15, 2001 06:59:10 PM new
I be in Canada, therefore I am taxed every time I breath. As a registered business, I report all eBay sales (not because of any inherent honesty, just cowardice) I don't know what the regulations for bill collectors are in the US but they are regulated by Ministry here and there are many rules regarding contact. That said, this does not prevent them from ignoring the rules and as the average debtor is unaware of the regulations they usually get away with it.
BTW I think we are way off the I Quit topic, but what the heck.
