richierich
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posted on December 21, 2001 11:12:33 PM new
I can not believe what I just find. Not one but several sellers that put a number or letter in the title, a . in the description, an outrageous opening bid $500 + .
This will ruin free listing days for all of us. I believe it is nothing but fee avoidance. See these auction will close with no bidder. They will relist with a real item that will sell. And avoid the listing fees!
I counted one of the sellers - over 200 items like this.
One bad apple spoils the whole bunch!
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Libra63
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posted on December 21, 2001 11:52:46 PM new
Yes I agree with you. There will not be just one bad apple but enough that ebay will not have a FLD. These are probably the same people that come in here and complain about all the problems eBay is having...These kind of sellers we can do without...
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rarriffle
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posted on December 22, 2001 03:55:11 AM new
These are also the same sellers who have large shipping fees and feel justified because it was in the TOS.
A thief is a thief is a thief. No matter how they work it.
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sulyn1950
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posted on December 22, 2001 07:30:41 AM new
I guess I'm missing something here....
Why would they list an auction on FLD, knowing that it won't sell and then re-list with an item they know will sell to avoid fees?????
Why wouldn't they just list the item they know will sell and be done with it????
How do they know it will sell when they re-list? What it if doesn't and it has to go another round? What are they gaining?
To post 200 auctions with no intention of them selling seems like a lot of work....
What am I missing?
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REAMOND
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posted on December 22, 2001 08:05:17 AM new
Apparently when they re-list and the item sells, they will get the listing fees refunded.
How much are the listing fees for a $500 starting price ? In any event, that is what they will be refunded. It is basically extending the FLD to a time when the market is better. I thinbk you have 30 days to re-list with a refund if the item sells.
It is a stretch to call it fee avoidance, because we all get the relist/refund option.
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sulyn1950
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posted on December 22, 2001 08:14:55 AM new
Thanks-I see what your saying about getting refunded higher listing fees....
But, when you re-list don't you get charged and then when it sells you get back thatlisting fee????
So if they re-list an item and start at $49 (even though originally they had an item in that spot that listed for $500+) they will pay a listing fee based on $49. If it sells, second time around, then they get the listing fee back. Wouldn't it only be the listing fee on the $49 start?????
I still can't figure out how they would help themselves, unless they normally only list a few auctions at a time and the 200 elgible for re-list status would give them some run time.....
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stopwhining
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posted on December 22, 2001 08:36:39 AM new
when you relist an item initially listed free on FLD,is the relisting free whether it sells or not??
i guess they are planning ahead to list certain items in the future.
it just tells you it is getting harder and harder to make money on ebay
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kiara
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posted on December 22, 2001 09:32:52 AM new
Perhaps they put the auctions up on FLD but didn't have time to fill in the details but wanted to take advantage of the free listing. So they put a high opening bid so no one would bid on them. Maybe they will go back and revise them and put in the item information with the correct price?
Not sure if that would work or not--just a thought.
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sulyn1950
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posted on December 22, 2001 09:39:12 AM new
I can see that especially since eBay said that search would be maybe two days behind. That could give them time to revise, but can you revise start price????
Then again, if I had a really high $$ item that I wasn't sure would sell, I could list it on FLD and hope for the best....it wouldn't cost me an arm and a leg that way. Let it run once hoping someone would come along and just have to have it...I probably wouldn't re-list it it didn't sell.
But, what is the significance of the letter or number in the title and the a. in the description?
Sorry to show my ignorance, but I won't know if I don't ask....
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kiara
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posted on December 22, 2001 09:51:03 AM new
I think you can revise the start price now if you have no bids? I haven't done it so maybe I am wrong on that.
It is easy to put a number for the title and just a letter in the description as it would be fast and the auction has to have some info in those fields so it will submit. Also they would be easy to find in your list when you went back to revise.
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richierich
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posted on December 22, 2001 10:00:31 AM new
All auctions must have a title and something in the description. That is why they use a single # or letter or symbol.
What they have done is extend their FLD to a Free Listing month. The seller with over 200 items listed like this did put up about 200 real auctions. Starting from $200 on up.
When they relist with an item that they know normally sellers they get back the listing fee they are charged. This gives them time to list more items at no charge. They used 3, 5, and 7 day auctions and starting bids from $500 -$999.
They are doing nothing but avoiding the listing fees for another auction.
I wonder how many auctions have been listed like this, by how many sellers.
I did all I could do to list 180 items on FLD. I normally list 20-40 items a day. So if I did what these sellers did I could have FREE LISTING for at least a week or two. I know which items I have that sell when listed and which one are hopefulls. I am should they know their merchandise too.
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vvalhalla
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posted on December 22, 2001 10:23:51 AM new
If you know the item number you can search back about 90 days. So multiple no sale free listings could in theory extend through spring.
dendude
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sulyn1950
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posted on December 22, 2001 10:26:00 AM new
Thanks! Boy, I was dense....
I didn't realize that the only thing appearing in the title was a single number or letter or that all that was in the description was an a.
Yes, this most probably is "place holding".
If they can revise the start price, then they can now take their time to "revise" the auctions (well a couple of days at least).
If this was to simply put "place holders" with re-list priviledges for their future high $$ items, they were thinking ahead....
Maybe it's not right, but definitely using the 'ole noodle and working the system unless eBay decides to shut them down since they are not actually auctioning anything (yet)!
[ edited by sulyn1950 on Dec 22, 2001 10:32 AM ]
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REAMOND
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posted on December 22, 2001 10:28:29 AM new
Actually it is a rather clever way to get extra benefits from FLD.
If you were to list 10 items for FLD and none sold, you would still have 10 re-lists for the next 30 days in which you would get the re-listing fee refunded if the item sells.
Bascially what they have given themselves is a greater amount of POSSIBLE free listings due to refunds for the next 30 days for items that sell.
What you can do with all these extra FLD listings is use them over the next month as every 3-5- or 7 day re-listing doesn't sell. Just go to one of the spare FLD listings and enter a new item.
If you normally list only 10 items a week, you would want to list 40 items for FLD, with 30 of them bogus. Then for every re-listed item for the month of Januray that sells, the listing is also free. To be safe, list 100 with 90 bogus, then if some re-lists sell, you still have extra FLD re-lists to use for the month.
If you plan and use the scheme correctly, everything you sell in January will have listing fees refunded.
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jeffj318
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posted on December 22, 2001 10:41:07 AM new
Hi
It is not right and downright immoral.
It is taking advantage of a kind gesture on the part of Ebay.
JJ
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lindajean
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posted on December 22, 2001 10:44:53 AM new
How are you finding these listings?
When I do a search for a number I get thousands of pages and I haven't seen one of those yet.
I was just curious.
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bkmunroe
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posted on December 22, 2001 01:51:09 PM new
As mentioned in earlier posts, I'd have to say the lister was caught by surprise by FLD and just submitted some dummy auctions. I'm guessing he'll revise them over the weekend to make them real auctions.
I can't see any other benefit to running dummy auctions on FLD.
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kahml
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posted on December 22, 2001 03:51:19 PM new
Uh, not to be a nut cruncher, but...
Is eBay going to refund more than they billed on a relist?
I don't think so.
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richierich
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posted on December 22, 2001 04:02:14 PM new
I will not post the sellers or any of the auctions here. I stumbled on to them by accident. I seen 10 in a row in one catagory and thought "What is this". Then I viewed this powersellers auctions, something like 800 items listed - including 204 dummy auctions. All high dollar (over $200 stuff). I am sure he pays ebay a bunch in fees. I am not sure if ebay knew that they would even do anything at all - mainly because of how much he sells anyway.
The other seller, must just be learning how to do this. Or is actually revise them all ready. This guy had only 20 auctions.
I just wonder if you guys were was floored by this idea as I was.
Jefff318 - EXACTLY what I thought!
Like rarriffle said - A thief is a thief is a thief. No matter how they work it.
REAMOND has the right idea. 30 days of Free Listing. NOT the intent of the FLD day.
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charliepottery
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posted on December 22, 2001 04:16:15 PM new
Why don't the lot of you worry about your own auctions, and let eBay worry about whether or not some seller is taking "advantage" or not. I am sure that they (eBay) are big enough to take care of their terms and conditions on their own website without being outsmarted and victimized by some nefarious seller. If it wasn't in eBay's financial interest, it would be done in a different manner.
Yes, I am a seller who has some auctions beginning at "high $ amounts" and HAVE ALREADY CLOSED SOME WITH BIN.
No, my auctions are not frauds or scams to "save" a few measly dollars on listing fees.
Yes, I would rather not have FLD at all! Without all the clutter on the site now, I could close a higher percentage of auctions by starting with lower Reserves or none at all. Given the clutter, I will protect myself by having higher UNRESERVED openings to avoid the RESERVE AUCTION FEE. I do realized that given the format I chose, a lower percentage of my auctions will close and the ending amount on average will most likely be less.
Yes, MY RATH and DISGUST is reserved for all those scumbags who: misrepresent, conceal defects, treat customers badly, chase customrs away, and generally pi$$ on the same site that I try to make an honest living at.
Thank you for letting me vent!
charlie
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quickdraw29
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posted on December 22, 2001 04:43:26 PM new
Ebay already has a rule concerning listing an auction with nothing up for sale. So ebay could shut these down immediately if they find them.
The seller should have listed an incoherant description with a relatively high start bid (not too high to be obvious), and wouldn't have costed more than a few extra seconds per listing just alternating description every twenty times or whatever the limit is on ebay for identical items. Still, there is a point when ebay, if they found and investigated such auctions, they could easily detrmine your false intentions, but if done properly, no one could possibly catch on to the trick. So it's the sloppy amateurs like mentioned in the first post that may ruin the fld, experts would never be detected.
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DMRick
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posted on December 22, 2001 08:35:10 PM new
I'm confused..last year when I relisted my no sale items, and they sold, I didn't get credit for the sales..I paid the listing fee, and only the items that didn't sell a second time, got me back listing fees when I relisted a third time and they sold (it acted like the second for sale, was the first).
Has this changed this year?
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stockticker
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posted on December 22, 2001 08:40:17 PM new
DMRick: As far as I know, the way you described how it works, is the way it has ALWAYS worked re FLD items. There was nothing on the eBay Announcment Board to indicate it would be any different this year.
I've been shaking my head in amusement at all the misplaced indignation on this thread. 
Irene
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richierich
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posted on December 22, 2001 08:53:44 PM new
On FLD in the past, unsold items that are relisted within 30 days and SELL the second time are credited, just like on paying listing days.
That's how it was for me the last 2 times, anyway.
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dejapooh
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posted on December 22, 2001 10:09:40 PM new
We can use a dummy account or two to bid each of those 200 items up to $1,000,000. How about them apples for FVF.
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ecomputeremporium
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posted on December 23, 2001 01:29:04 AM new
I don't think that Ebay will let something like that go. If they think it is a problem they will just make it so that you can't relist items that are posted on FLD day. They won't cancel the whole thing. Also I don't understand the why people are so angry about the high s&h fees. There is nothing wrong or immoral about that. There are some categories that everybody does it and you have to do it to compete. All you have to do is add up the total you pay and that is your price. Handling is not a finite amount. It is different for everybody. My time is worth something to pack things and gas to the post office and packing materials. If I want to make $50 hour as a packer that is my choice. If people don't like it they don't have to bid. I used to charge $13.99 to ship 1 stick of RAM and I sent it $3.90 Priority Mail. I made a lot of money doing it. I had the price at the top of the auction in huge red print. That is not dishonest. I did not make money as a RAM seller I made money as a shipper. I was a professional handler. If I go out in the street and yell I am selling quarter for a dollar and I sell a bunch does that make me dishonest. Our economy is based on selling thing for more than we paid for them. You can always find a better deal somewhere else.
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REAMOND
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posted on December 23, 2001 05:26:41 AM new
The scheme would help eBay's books on the re-lists. I think their accounting system would show an immediate credit for a re-listing fee and the refund for a sold item carries on the books differently or next quarter billing.
I don't find the scheme that problematic for eBay, in fact it would appear to allow for more listings by the seller in January. Remember, the refund only applies to items sold on a re-list.
It would also be interesting if eBay shot up to 12 or 14 million listings next FLD as word of the scheme gets out. It would be good press for eBay as long as the reporter didn't get wind of the scheme, but then again, it would also mean the possibility of higher listing totals for Aug/Jan 2002.
I don't know if I would go after this with if I were eBay. It seems there is more upside than downside for eBay.
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twinsoft
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posted on December 23, 2001 09:37:03 AM new
The auctions violate eBay's rules in at least two ways. First, the auction must be for a "real" item. Second, the listing can not be changed to a different item on relist. In fact, I recall hearing of a seller who was suspended for doing that.
It doesn't take much brains to try to cheat eBay, but when you get caught they show you the door, especially for fee avoidance. You'd think a powerseller would be more careful than to attempt a blatant rip-off which is sure to be reported.
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eemann
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posted on December 23, 2001 10:39:41 AM new
I'm a seller, almost a powerseller. It's getting tougher to make a profit on EBAY.
Unless something's changed, Last time I tried to re-list an item with substantial changes, EBAY had some kind of artificial intelligence which warned me in red letters "this auction does not qualify for re-listing refund of fees"
So I don't see how this slick move can result in extending the FLD...
But if it did, more power to the sellers! I have many items that don't sell, but I pay to list. Does that make EBAY a thief? If it's more than 45 days before I realize that I have a deadbeat, EBAY keeps the Final value fee and I've received no cash. Again, is EBAY stealing?
The end result is that the actual percentage of sales I pay EBAY is 12%-15% not the 2-1/2% to 5% they pretend it is. I suspect that I'm not the only seller caught in this trick bag.
Tell me who is the thief?
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bkmunroe
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posted on December 23, 2001 11:24:13 AM new
But if it did, more power to the sellers! I have many items that don't sell, but I pay to list. Does that make EBAY a thief?
No, you paid Ebay a fee to list your item and they did. The fact that no one wanted your item has nothing to do with it. Ebay provided the service you paid for.
If it's more than 45 days before I realize that I have a deadbeat, EBAY keeps the Final value fee and I've received no cash. Again, is EBAY stealing?
Again, no. 45 days is more than enough time to file for your FVF. It's your job to keep track of auction payments.
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