boarderpatrol
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posted on February 26, 2002 10:00:02 AM new
Have you ever ran into buyers that are nice until you leave them feedback..then turn around and complain and threaten to leave you neg unless you refund the cash before the item is sent back to you or some other lame reason why they should have the money and the item?
I have received NO NEGS Since I have instituted my new policy!
My new fb policy "I will leave feedback upon safe receipt of the item and when feedback has been posted to my account. I always leave feedback. 99.9% of the time it will be positive. Please keep in mind that unfounded, retaliatory, and otherwise threatening feedback may be grounds for a legal cause of action. This will not be overlooked."© Boarder_patrol
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mballai
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posted on February 26, 2002 10:29:48 AM new
Never had that problem, but if anyone tried it, I'd reply that their threat is being forwarded to Safeharbor as implicit auction interference and a violation of the terms in my EOA.
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gina50
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posted on February 26, 2002 10:52:14 AM new
I never leave feedback first for my buyers since I do not feel transaction is complete until Buyer receives item.
Some ebayers are just lazy and never leave feedback but my main concern is ... if I leave feedback first... what if they say that they never received item or something.
I have had a few ebayers email me to say they don't agree with my policy. But I will not change the way I run my business, no way~ since I am an honest seller and guarantee every item I sell !
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eauctionmgnt
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posted on February 26, 2002 11:15:27 AM new
boarderpatrol,
I am one of the many sellers who also thinks that the seller should leave feedback after the buyer does. (how else do we really know that the transaction is truly over?!?!). However, I think your wording of your new feedback policy is a little harsh. It sounds very threatening and negative in manner. The following thread:
http://www.auctionwatch.com/mesg/read.html?num=2&thread=452260
has some great ideas on how you may wish to rephrase your statement. Remember....it's good to make your customers aware of your policys.... but it's nicer to do it tactfully!
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katmommy
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posted on February 26, 2002 11:25:43 AM new
boarderpatrol:
I would take out the "This will not be overlooked" part. Sounds harsh.
MEOW
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mballai
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posted on February 26, 2002 11:30:22 AM new
I have a real problem with making an adversarial approach out of my transactions. None of my sales are big bucks and I won't waste time with anyone who pulls a wet diaper temper tantrum.
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computerboy
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posted on February 26, 2002 11:39:25 AM new
We don't allow ourselves to be threatened with the dangling negative feedback carrot.
Our policy is to provide honest professional service to our customers and to do our best to accomdate unusual circumstances. In short, do our absolute best in every transaction. Honesty and professionalism. If this somehow falls short of a buyers satisfaction, they are free to leave any feedback they choose.
We've run into to many instances of bully buyers who have unrealistic expectations and are looking for something for nothing. They take no responsiblities for their bids and do not uphold their end of the transasction We do not allow ourselves to fall prey to these bad users, as it would just further their cause.
We had a user leave a negative feedback comment that stated "Didn't have item". What he failed to mention was that his payment was sent almost two months after the auction ended. Sound familiar? Us sellers are all to familiar with all of these bad buying tactics and we should not give in to their meritless demands.
SAY NO TO UNREASONABLE BUYERS!
You with me?
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mrfoxy76
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posted on February 26, 2002 11:43:09 AM new
people are so anal about feedback..once the item is paid for i leave feedback for the buyer....they have fulfiled their part of the deal PAID for it....people might argue otherwise but what else is there for a buyer to do once paid his part of the deal is over...u will always get people leaving negs and are never happy just part of dealing with joe public
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ahc3
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posted on February 26, 2002 12:09:22 PM new
I used to leave feedback as soon as the item was paid for, but not anymore. I would remove ANY hostile wording from your policy, I believe hostile wording sets up bad transactions. What I am now doing is using Vrane and paying for it. Something like $10 for 600 feedbacks left. My new policy states that my feedback is now totally automated. All a buyer needs to do to receive feedback is leave me positive feedback, and overnight, feedback will automatically be left for them. No problems at all since I starte, and I think I am getting more feedback now (though that is not the issue, I have enough so I don't care about receiving it too much, just want to avoid the negatives and neutrals)
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mrfoxy76
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posted on February 26, 2002 12:23:38 PM new
AHC3 so in otherwards you will not bother to leave feedback until it is left for you....BLACKMAIL
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bettylou
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posted on February 26, 2002 12:31:26 PM new
We leave feedback after the item ships. Sometimes as much as a week goes by after shipment, but we do leave it. So sometimes it works out that we leave it first, others the bidder leaves it first.
If you only run a few auctions I guess you might have the time or energy to be vigilant and maintain a I-won't-leave-it-until-you-do-neener-neener stance, but I just can't get that worked up about it. Sorry.
Bottom line: My opinion is that feedback matters a lot less in the grand scheme of things than some people might think.
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slabholder
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posted on February 26, 2002 12:32:04 PM new
Found this one on Feebay:
Leave and receive fair feedback. We always wait until any issues are resolved before leaving feedback and ask the same of you please. Feedback is our life!
Slabholder
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ahc3
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posted on February 26, 2002 01:26:29 PM new
mrfoxy76 - Blackmail? Hardly! Maybe you are confused about what the word means?
An example of how a seller can blackmail a buyer is to say something like "Leave me positive feedback or else I will leave you negative feedback)
I am not blackmailing anyone to leave me feedback, they can leave or not leave feedback, it is up to them. I just don't want neutrual or negative. The way feedback is set up, it totally hurts the seller is and does not do anything to the buyer. However, I would rather no leave feedback until they have. It's a choice. I have automated the process so it is done automatically.
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mrfoxy76
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posted on February 26, 2002 01:27:47 PM new
so what happens if someone is unhappy and leaves a neg? u just neg them back....
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ahc3
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posted on February 26, 2002 02:20:20 PM new
I might, but I don't automatically do that. I would want to find out why they left a negative to begin with. However, if someone left me a negative without contacting me to try to work out the situation, I would be inclined to leave a negative back, because that person did not act reasonably. If they contact me, I am sure something can be worked out...I've been on ebay since 1997 with over 1600 positives and zero negatives, so I must be doing something right.
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morgantown
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posted on February 26, 2002 03:04:16 PM new
Amazing how feedback attitudes change over time.
A few years back the overwhelming consensus was to leave feedback upon payment receipt. I remember getting flamed when stating that I decided to leave feedback only when received from bidder. Without getting into the whole argument - lots of negative things can and do happen AFTER payment is made. It's premature to leave feedback so early in the transaction. If you really are concerned about "protecting the ebay community" don't leave premature feedback.
In summation: five years ago, when I used to leave feedback upon payment receipt, I got frivolous complaints. I get little to none now, think about it.
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tomwiii
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posted on February 26, 2002 03:13:12 PM new
The major factor lately has been the huge number of NEWBIES taking their first plunge into the e-commerce ocean!
Looking at my last few months of winners, very few have f/b's greater than 50!
I think this trend is GREAT, but it also behooves (I've ALWAYS wanted to use that word!) us as sellers to do a little more "hand-holding" in order to conclude the transactions without garnering undeserved negs!
I just had a winner who couldn't figure out how to pay me because I don't use "CHECKOUT" -- even though my EOA letter has easy & simple-enough-for-a-7-yo instructions! With a lot of patient emails I smilingly walked him thru the steps, even though I wanted to scream: "You are a MORON!"
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dadofstickboy
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posted on February 26, 2002 03:20:06 PM new
mrfoxy76:
I'm with you all the way and always have been!
Any seller who has feedback terms in their auction listing will never get a bid from me!
It all boils down to: What they are saying is:
You can bid on my auction,you can pay me promptly,But if I sell you a piece of junk or I take my good old time shipping it to you and you don't like the way I screwed you over,and have the nerve to leave me a Neg. You can be sure I'll do the same for you!!
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ahc3
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posted on February 26, 2002 03:30:53 PM new
I ship within 24 hours usually, unless it is a holiday weekend, but I have had packages take weeks to arrive. Just today, I got back a PRIORITY MAIL package that I placed stamps on, and took to the counter. The boneheads at the post office did not cancel the stamps, although they did put on a sticker with zero value to show that it came through the post office. Now, here is a priority mail order that I got paid for on Sunday, shipped on Monday, and it came back to me. Is it my fault? I don't think so, and if you neg me because of that, I will be glad to return the favor for being unreasonable. You are the reason why I changed my feedback policy. (Well, not you specifically, but people like you who would be willing to give a negative without trying to see what is going on or try to solve the problem somehow)
I don't put feedback terms in my auction listing, I give information on when I will leave feedback when they pay for their items.
I agree that if a seller puts in terms like you must pay within 3 days or I will give you a negative, I laugh and move on. I won't deal with anyone who is like that upfront.
Until recently, I left positive feedback as soon as payment was received. I might consider doing so again WHEN/IF ebay changes their feedback policy. I think the more fluid model like Yahoo has would go a LONG way to help both parties work out any problems. after the auction concluded.
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kiara
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posted on February 26, 2002 05:14:55 PM new
It makes me smile whenever this topic comes up and some sellers get so bent out of shape over when to leave feedback because not everyone is doing it "their way".
Each seller has to decide for himself what works best for him and just go with it.
I don't even mention feedback to my bidders during the transaction and I don't leave feedback right away for most. I just ask them to please let me know when their item arrives.
Some e-mail me to let me know and others just leave feedback first and some others just drop out of sight. But I find that most are leaving feedback for me this way.
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dadofstickboy
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posted on February 26, 2002 05:47:03 PM new
YOU FIRST,NO YOU FIRST,NO YOU FIRST,NO YOU FIRST,NOT ME YOU GO FIRST,OH NO YOU GO FIRST
This whole FB thing is brought on by A Fear Factor that someone may say something bad about you,and you won't be able to retaliate with something bad about them!
My belief is that if both parties treat each other right,then each party will have no choice but as to say something good about each other! So it shouldn't matter who goes First.
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mballai
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posted on February 27, 2002 03:53:08 AM new
Neg feedback will happen no matter what you do. And no matter how you want to hide behind momma eBay's apron to protect you, it's not likely to happen anytime soon. A policy that's been around for years is likely to be permanent.
The best thing you can do is to give real good service and stand behind your stuff. The last thing I am going to do is cower and make policy for some little twit who thinks he is going to tell me how to conduct business by trying to intimidate me.
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mrfoxy76
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posted on February 27, 2002 04:51:23 AM new
exactly you will always get a neg once in a while i have 3 negs, 350 positive all the negs from people who are no longer registered and were dicking around nothing i can do about it happens.
I ALWAYS LEAVE FEEDBACK ONCE I RECEIVE PAYMENT or MATERIAL. If i ship slowly, send junk or it doesn't work I would expect nothing less than a neg in return(this has never happened I stand by what I sell).
BOTTOM LINE IS AND THERE IS NO TWO WAYS YOU CAN LOOK AT IT. To tell someone you will no leave a + until they do is blackmail. NO MATTER WHAT YOU SAYS ITS BLACKMAIL AND CHILDISH.
If you are happy with either quick payment or the merchandise you purchased was received in a timely manner and in the condition you expected leave a +.
I think the worst culprites are the people who dont even bother to leave feedback just pure lazy. If you have the time to bid, pay, list or sell you have to time to leave feedback.
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katmommy
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posted on February 27, 2002 05:23:58 AM new
Because things can and have gone wrong after an item is sent to a buyer, I can understand how a seller will change his FB policy to leave it after he is sure that the buyer recd the item and is happy with it. It is self-protection and I also instituted a new policy because things have gone wrong. I recently posted about a buyer who says the dress I sent was ripped and wanted a full refund and still keep the dress. I didnt leave her positive FB when I got payment and I'm glad I didnt. She would have neg'd me by now and there would be nothing I can do about it. As of today..neither of us has left FB and I wont be leaving it because of possible retaliation..I'm sure she feels the same way. Better to have no feedback then an undeserved neg.
MEOW
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mrspock
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posted on February 27, 2002 06:01:19 AM new
As a Buyer I leave feedback when the item has been received and I am satisfied with it
As as Seller I leave feedback either when I receive feedback from the buyer or
when they email and let me know it arrived and they are satisfied...
No need to put any of this in TOS IMO.
spock here......
Live long and Prosper
[
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eauctionmgnt
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posted on February 27, 2002 06:07:33 AM new
In order to understand attitudes toward feedback, you really need to have a good understanding of what is involved in a transaction. The following is your standard (and ideal) transaction process:
Transaction START:
1) Seller lists item accurately
2) Seller Answers any questions about item
3) Seller sends out EOA notice
4) Bidder mails payment
5) Seller receives payment
6) Seller Ships item
7) Bidder receives item
Transaction END
Notice several things about the transaction. There are 7 critical steps. These actions MUST be completed. (with the exception of possibly #2). Also note that the seller is responsible for 5 of the 7 actions, while the Bidder is responsible for only two. For a transaction to be complete, the bidder MUST both send payment AND receive the item. It is simple logic to determine then that the bidder is not done with their part of the transaction until they have received the item. It is not a difficult concept to grasp. Anyone who leaves feedback before this point is leaving feedback prematurely because the transaction has not been completed. If you are a seller and choose to leave feedback after a bidder has completed only 1 of their 2 responsibilities, that is your choice. However, do not cast blame on those sellers who truly understand the working of the transaction and wait for it to be completed before leaving feedback.
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tomwiii
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posted on February 27, 2002 06:27:49 AM new
Since feeBay's "feedback fiasco" is inherently FLAWED, I TOO reserve FB until the bidder has posted it! TOO many NEWBIES & CRAZIES out there now -- it's just plain ole simple SELF-PRESERVATION! 
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llama_lady
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posted on February 27, 2002 10:36:06 AM new
I am one of those 'crazy' sellers that leaves feedback when I receive payment. However, if there is any kind of problem, you can follow-up to the original feedback .
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morgantown
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posted on February 27, 2002 01:31:08 PM new
The problem with doing a follow-up on a postive feedback is that you cannot change it to a negative. No body is ever going to see the follow-up, and it could be important, such as "fraudulent credit card charge back." I don't understand why ebay cannot allow feedback to be changed by the user? It would make the process much more credible.
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katmommy
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posted on February 27, 2002 01:36:46 PM new
I agree with morgantown. Feedback should be able to be changed like on Yahoo. There are so many instances where people would change it if they could.
MEOW
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