posted on March 1, 2002 09:56:18 PM new
I received this email this evening.
I received a USPS notice for $2.00 postage due today for the package you
sent me, which is now waiting at the Post Office for me to pick up.
Please arrange to credit me back for that $2.00 amount and let me know once
you've done so.
Once you let me know you've done that I will check and then give you
positive feedback at eBay. Thanks, in advance, for taking care of this.
If you don't, I will refuse the shipment and and tell my bank to void the
charge.
Its not as bad as I think it is I am sure I just can not believe people sending this to someone. They just do not know how to communicate without being nasty about it. I am surprised they do not throw in the old Neg also.
Oh I get nice ones too when I mess up like I forget an item in a multiple order and I apologize and ship it right out. But this, why do we have to get these.
My reply was that is fine, let it come back and have your bank deny the charge on it.
So what are your buyers going to do to you if you do not do something for them?
Well I needed to vent to someone and the wife is in bed. Thought I would let me AW friends beat up on me for a while since you wont let that other thread die
posted on March 1, 2002 10:03:36 PM new
I've noticed the same thing lately. Some people (a growing number of them) don't seem to be able to communicate without threats. Once in a while they even feel foolish and apologize once they realize that you are not attempting to rip them off.
posted on March 1, 2002 11:09:24 PM new
Was he a newbie? I would expect this behavior from a newbie who may already be apprehensive
about ebay in the first place than I would from an experienced user. Either way, however, the
behavior is very rude. IMO, you did the right thing.
I could look at it from another angle and
be somewhat simpathetic to the seller IF:
----the seller clearly overcharged for shipping, and didn't cover all the costs when
the money that was paid for shipping was more than enough.
----the seller packaged the item poorly in addition to not covering all the postage.
-----the seller packaged the item in a new Priority Mail box which was turned inside out and the buyer was held responsible for paying the Priority fees because of the seller's tomfoolery (always loved that word).
Of course, you are not that type of seller.
If the buyer is a newbie, he is simply being very rude and inconsiderate. If he is not a newbie, he is being a complete jerk.
posted on March 1, 2002 11:47:34 PM new
Member since: Saturday, Nov 14, 1998 is what their info says.
45 Pos, 6 Negs. Negs are old from when they were selling something 2 years ago.
The Package was a new priority box but was correct side out. It was 3 lbs with Tracking which is $5.20 for me since I use the online tracking. They were charged $5.50 for shipping. It was in a number #4 square. No chance for dmage unless it was dropped from a plane but would still probably function correctly.
I been trying to figure this out and finally have. Since it is a 3lb priority at $5.20 we used a $3.20 stamp and a $2.00 stamp unless we were out of $2.00 then we would use 2 $1.00 stamps. One must have fallen off somewhere, probably a $2.00 cause the $1.00 is the self stick kind.
Unlike some of you I have read in the other post I have a great relationship with the postal people at our center. I even take in donuts once in a blue moon. If I make a mistake and they see it they simply put it in my box to correct or call me on the phone if I need to come right in. I could have made a mistake and not put it on I suppose but man I been doing this a long time and I have only everh had one other package in several thousand have a postage due.
So lets say this is my fault for not putting the correct postage on it but geesh, you thought I stole something of real value from them.
I want to see what kind of reply I get. I will be glad to work it our with them if their tone changes a whole bunch.
posted on March 2, 2002 01:22:49 AM new
I am sure glad the wife was in bed so we could here your story. I also have been getting strange responses from my buyers, maybe it's the "elnino" or something I don't know, but my feedback is great, and I still get messages that are kind of threatening.
Maybe it's the drinking water or maybe it's just drinking I don't know but it doesn't come easier the longer I sell. I need to sell at least for another year and I hope this year goes fast because either my mind or my computer will die before that and I hope it neither.
posted on March 2, 2002 06:26:51 AM new
LaneFamily,
Yes, the "tone" of the e-mail borders on being rude. But it's really hard to detect upset from rude in text.
Turn it around for a moment (I'm sure you have). Buyer is excited at winning item, promptly ships off payment, comes home expecting to see item - finds a bill. Ooops.
Maybe you can get your post office person to contact someone at the buyer's branch to see if, in fact, a cancelled stamp fell off. I do not know what the postal regulations have to say about that. But if they see a cancelled "blank" area, they may let it go.
Or, you could - if you want future business from this buyer - offer a credit for future wins (perhaps something greater than $2.00).
Or, move on to the next thing and wait for the inevitable neg...
posted on March 2, 2002 07:15:49 AM new
While I'm fortunate not to have many buyer problems, they do appear for all of us on occasion.
Sometime back I combined the advice shared on these boards into a prepared response.
I choose the approach that in most cases my best interest is served by completing the transaction as quickly as possible and moving past the problem.
Even in cases where I'm completely right and the buyer's demand is unreasonable, I have to consider what is in my best interest and is it worth my time to explain and argue over a few dollars.
Sometimes it is, but many times the effort isn't worth the time and trouble. We each see things happen in RL that bother us or encounter people that want to argue, make unreasonable demands or are looking for self satisfaction by being bullies. I've learned to pick my fights on my terms and not respond every time I'm challenged.
It seems a lot of buyers are also concerned about not being treated fairly regarding what they consider a legitimate complaint. While they might be hesitate in appearing aggressive in RL, the protection offered by Internet communications prompts some to phrase their messages harshly.
I have form email responses stored . Both start "Thank you for your email. Sorry a problem has developed in our transaction.I try to present listings and complete transaction in a manner that assures customers satisfaction. Sometimes problems arise and when that happens I try to work with customers to reach a mutually acceptable conclusion".
At this point in the emails I either say "Yes" and state some specific action I will take to respond to their concern or "NO" and state why.
With this plan in place I spend little time involved in the tone and wording of their email. Just the facts, fill in the blanks in my prepared response and click.
When online, my response is often sent within a few minutes of my receiving their email. I don't want to get involved in their emotional state of mind, I'm just doing a little business.
Often I get a "Thank You" email back which contains an apology for their sounding off and even an occasional explanation about something that had happened, separate from our transaction, that had them upset.
This works for me most of the time but a few do get messy.
Mostly what this approach does is prevent me from taking offense and getting all bent out of shape because I'm in a bad mood to begin with and don't like the tone or wording that someone else uses to express themselves.
I've got a neutral, all purpose response ready and don't have to rely on controlling my temper and righteous indignation while composing a reply to what is just a minor business transaction.
posted on March 2, 2002 07:45:17 AM new
OF COURSE your customer is upset! But that isn't really the issue, is it? The fact that you dont "like" the tone of their electronic mail message back to you is utterly irrelevant -- e-mail is tone deaf.
Who screwed up here? The customer? I don't think so.
Your customer told you precisely what he/she was going to do. Yet, you told him to go ahead and create huge problems for you because you "didn't like the way he/she said it." Jim, you are a merchant, a purveyor of goods, not a literary critic. You are also supposed to be a professional. And you dropped the ball.
You, and you alone, are responsible for your own actions. No further explanation should be needed that a shipment with postage due is going to upset a customer, I don't care if it's $2.00 or $200.00. Whether or not you find a customer's manner of complaining offensive, YOU are obligated to do what you have said you will do. Own up to it and make ammends to your customer. Anything less is unprofessional and will simply create more problems for everyone, not solve them.
And to whoever it was who said "you did the right thing" -- well, I'll just say I won't be bidding on your auctions any time soon.
posted on March 2, 2002 08:31:19 AM new
Sorry you all, but I have to agree with bdunique...In his email he used "please" & "Thank you", which hardly constitutes a harsh tone...His only negative remark was his refusal to accept the package as it was...I frankly don't see the bad tone in his email, I see the facts stated as to what to do to remedy the situation...Whether it was your error or not, he made payment and should expect his item to arrive without a hastle...Just my opinion...I got cussed out by a guy with a -4 feedback because I sent him by mistake a 97 diecast truck instead of the 98 he bought...Without giving me a chance to remedy the situation he said if he didn't get the right one in 3 days he would leave me negative feedback on the 4th day!...I was called a jackass for making such a stupid error...I sent him an email telling him I would put the right one in the mail to him and a check for the postage to return the wrong one (not knowing whether I would ever get it back)...I had to bite my tongue not to slam the guy in my email...I got him back down the road...When time had expired for him to leave me any feedback, I sent him an email reminding him who I was, and gave him both barrels...I wouldn't have wanted my grandma to read that email...You had an easy one Jim...later you all...
posted on March 2, 2002 08:41:27 AM new
You need a new feedback policy. As a seller, don't be the first to leave feedback. This way, buyers will think twice before issuing threats.
posted on March 2, 2002 08:44:21 AM new
I think part of the problem is email itself. It is very easy to be rude in a message - no eye-to-eye contact, no immediate response, very impersonal and remote. I notice this in a lot of emails - someone would not do or say something face-to-face, but will in email. I don't know what the solution is, since we live or die by email in this business.
posted on March 2, 2002 09:05:10 AM new
Are you in the business of selling on eBay or in the business of starting fights?
If I'd received that polite email (and yes, it was polite) and I truly believed that the stamps I had affixed had fallen off, I would CALL the customer and verify this.
posted on March 2, 2002 09:16:06 AM new
I saw an interview with Charleston Heston once. He and his wife have been married forever. He was asked, "To what do you attribute the longevity of your marriage."
He answered, "I quickly learned those 3 little words that are so hard to say, yet, so vital."
The interviewer asked what they were. Heston responded, "I was wrong."
I agree that the e-mail you received was unnecessarily confrontational and I would also have been miffed to receive it.
However, after I cooled down, I would have written, "I am sorry that the package you received arrived postage due. I know I would have been surprised, just like you were. Would you please go ahead and accept the package? I will immediately send you $2.00 to make up for this inconvenience. Please let me know if this acceptable.
Again, I apologize for this inconvenience. I must have hit my head that day and scrambled a few brain cells without realizeing it. Take care,
Mike"
Hopefully, he would respond nicely. Often, if you give a person a chance to voluntarily help you, they will take advantage of that opportunity. Most people like the warm fuzzy we get from helping others and there were hints in his e-mail that he wouldn't be totally unreasonable.
posted on March 2, 2002 09:17:41 AM new
Not knowing the customer I would prefer to think that this is his attempt at taking care of business more so than being rude since he did use the words please and thanks.
The "if you don't" part would kind of rub me the wrong way though if I got the e-mail.
It is easier to apologize and see what can be done now than drag out the issue by having the package returned.
posted on March 2, 2002 09:46:16 AM new
technerd: Would you suggest a seller time-out to cool down in this situation? What would be the best coping mechanism for a seller whose pride is offended but really wants to do the right thing?
It's funny about AW. There are always threads about feedback, sellers overcharging for shipping, buyers wanting to change TOS, la dee dah, but the really useful stuff like "How do I clear my head so I can respond in a calm and reasonable manner?" rarely gets discussed.
posted on March 2, 2002 10:39:06 AM new
I think the buyer's email was fair, he didn't call you a thief or scumbag. He did show some assertiveness which usually works to draw some action. If he was more passive then he would have been more likely to have been ignored.
posted on March 2, 2002 11:42:46 AM new
If you feel the email was nasty, try this as a theraputic tool:
Immediately compose a nastier return email to the buyer and vent any anger you hold towards them. Instead of sending the email, place it in your Outbox. Wait a while, go back to your message and read it. Then, either take out all of the expletives and send it or recompse your message and respond in an unemotional fashion.
posted on March 2, 2002 11:49:53 AM new
I am getting to the point of this. http://www.auctionwatch.com/mesg/read.html?num=2&thread=453262 Im an average seller, 6000 Pos pos feedback and now 11 negs was only like 6 till the last few month when in my opinion all the weirdos came out.
I used to bust my butt not to get that neg but am getting to the point as to why now. If a seller can get the 1200 neg or what ever it was that person has and still chug along why should I care?
I like the dirversity of the comments received. Glad some of the late nighters agree with me. Were we all up putting in orders at that time of the night?
I am sure glad the wife was in bed so we could here your story This is all her fault. I could have just yelled at her and been done with.
Or, you could - if you want future business from this buyer - offer a credit for future wins (perhaps something greater than $2.00). I owe the person the money no doubt about it. When I make mistakes I take care of them. I refund all shipping costs both way if I send a wrong item. It the item is defective most cases I do not ask for it back and just ship another. In most cases if I ship a wrong item and the value is not to great I just let them keep it as our gift and send the correct one. If they return part of an order I refund the entire amount a lot of times again as long as it is not excessive. As for being a return customer I do not care to have this type of person as a return customer.
Or, move on to the next thing and wait for the inevitable neg See opening comments about that. I don't think I care any more. I get neturals cause some people order the wrong thing.
Who screwed up here? The customer? I don't think so Umm I'll have to go back and read but I do not think I ever blaimed the customer on this. It was either my fault or at no ones particular fault casue a stamp may have fell off. I would think though if it was postmarked like this one should be, it would not matter if the postage fell off or not.
And to whoever it was who said "you did the right thing" -- well, I'll just say I won't be bidding on your auctions any time soon Let not get too out of hand in this thread, I see good things coming here. Lets try to be the adults we are all supposed to be and keep the tone civil or you can send the damn thing back and call your bank.
You need a new feedback policy. As a seller, don't be the first to leave feedback. This way, buyers will think twice before issuing threats. As long as I been reading here I keep telling myself that and I agree with you 100% but I am lucky to process the 300 sales a week I get let alone worry about sending feedback when I get it. It is just too easy to enter the payment and click leave feedback in the software I use.
someone would not do or say something face-to-face, but will in email This is a good thought. If this was in say a store I have and the guy asked for a pack of Camel lights and I gave him regualr Camels he would say excuse me you made a mistake please correct it. I would say yes I am sorry here is the correct item. He/She is not likely to say thats it, give me the correct brand or I'll just leave these hear and call my bank. I gues it is because we are face to face and not over the internet that happens.
Are you in the business of selling on eBay or in the business of starting fights? While I am sitting here rolling my pennies I will think about that one. The last time I heard from you, you accused me of everything under the sun while I have never responded to you more than twice maybe.
technerd That is typically what I do but I leave out the part about hitting my head and loosing brain cells. I do not degrade myself to pump someone else up.
I received this e-mail last evening also "Hi, I just received the cables and one is 6ft instead of 15ft. I need the 15ft one. Please advise." I advised him I was sorry and that I would get the correct one to him right away.
"How do I clear my head so I can respond in a calm and reasonable manner?" I think some of that is coming out in this thread and that is just great.
either my mind or my computer will die before that Forgot about this one so I had to go back and grab it casue I can relate. Maybe a vacation would help.
While I have been writing this book several more have come in but will have to catch up with you later. As was stated above got to get away from the computer for a while today.
posted on March 2, 2002 02:52:19 PM new
quickdraw: I think the buyer's email was fair, he didn't call you a thief or scumbag. He did show some assertiveness which usually works to draw some action. If he was more passive then he would have been more likely to have been ignored.
Absolutely correct. I bought a set of sterling silver flatware from a low-feedback seller. It came but one serving piece was missing. Wrote politely. No response. 10 days later, wrote again politely. No response. 5 days later, wrote again, quite a bit less politely. No response. 3 days later, made an explicit threat. Bingo. Instant response.
Never got the serving piece or a pro rata refund, though. Negged the guy and moved on.
posted on March 3, 2002 11:10:59 AM new
From a buyers perspective I'd be mad too.
I prepaid shipping for the item price and the $5.50 shipping then when it arrives to find the PO holding it hostage for $2.00 more......
In my mind I'd be thinking WTF??? I PAID FOR THE SHIPPING!!!!
When stamps fall off my packages the PO sends them back to me with a big, red, ugly stamp "Insufficient postage" Leaving me the burden of repackaging and restamping.
As a buyer in my mind I would probably have thought the same thing as your customer that you didn't put enough postage on it and stuck me for the difference that I already paid.
You obviously didn't do it on purpose. Stamps do fall off but your customers couldn't know that .......all they know about it the hostage note they got from the PO.
posted on March 4, 2002 01:59:34 PM new
I would have just paid the $2.00 to get the package and would have sent you a kind email letting you know that the postage was short and I had to cover the $2.00 difference. On second thought, I would most likely just covered the $2.00 and called it a day. No big deal...
These eBay scenerios are sometimes comical. Makes me wonder how some of these users function in the real world where problems are a part of life. Short some of these users a nickel and they want to give you the death penalty. It's pretty sad.
eBay needs to incorporate a few golden rules into their new user's guide:
1. Resist all temtations of being an unreasonable moron when using the eBay website.
2. For all other questions, please refer to point one.
posted on March 4, 2002 03:04:44 PM new
Right on Computerboy. I guess it's the perspective with which we approach ebay that defines our decisions. If we approach ebay with the idea that we are going to get screwed, then every little thing is a disaster and everyone who makes a mistake is a crook. On the other hand, approaching ebay dealings with the idea that most folks are honest and will try to satisfy us will generally provide much more satisfying dealings. I'd have emailed "no big deal, but your package arrived with $2.00 due. Here's the copy of my receipt." I once emailed a customer "sorry, but I miss-added and you sent $1.00 too much. I'll include it with your package." His response was "I just noticed it- don't worry about it, have a beverage on me."
posted on March 4, 2002 09:29:37 PM new
computerboy
I may not agree with your stock picks but that is exactly how it should have been.
"Do you think you have a scam artist that is working a $2.00 scam routine?" At first I was not sure. Some people do the strangest things. Maybe they wanted a bit of a discount. After I figured out how it might of happened no I do not believe it was a scam. I believe it 100%.
"How much time have you dwelt on this $2.00" Not long at all. Just the time to talk to my friends and not so friends here at AW. I only spent about 5 seconds with the e-mail back to the person.
"If the buyer denies the charges aren't you going to pay a chargeback fee?" Yes, I would have to pay back the full amount including the full shhipping price (missing or not) and a $10.00 fee since this was a Billpoint transaction.
Maybe I'm not a good businessman, I'd have said, "Sorry about the foulup, I'll get the $2.00 off to you right away." As I said befor that is normally how I handle it. You don't do over 10,000 transactions on eBay like I have and not do that once in a while. My whole point and maybe I did not pick a good one to do this with is I am tired of the negative e-mails and comments.
Excellent communication! Very fast shipping! Would definitely buy from again!
Great Transaction, Great Communication A+A+A+A+A+A+
Fast ship, would do business with again
I have got 6105 commets like the ones above. Even the neturals are nice.
Transaction was o.k. (Newbie with 1 rating - Mine)
Product is fine, but they dropped the ball on the order. Received 32 days later. (Some one at the PO was asleep)
Even when they are unhappy with me most are reasonable.
FYI I got another Neg today from a transaction on Dec 27th. Never received item - no response to e-mail. Lucky number 13. There out there, waiting.
Ok so I am having some fun here let me back up a bit to some more.
"In my mind I'd be thinking WTF??? I PAID FOR THE SHIPPING!!!!" I guess that shows you that people think differently. I coul dsee mcjane saying that though. Just having fun with you.
"I want Mike to know is WASN'T PERSONAL...it was BUSINESS!" You know tom I reported not getting my last issue of the Monkey Porn Gazette and never heard from you! I want to agree with you on this but when we start making business inpersonal we start sending each other e-mails like above.
posted on March 4, 2002 10:15:46 PM new
There comming out of the walls. As I sat here typing the above response I got 2 neturals. Auction again in late december. A newbie that could not get checkout to work.
Oh well, I guess that is what I get for being a checkout supporter.
Yes I will take a deep breath, wait a few days to cool off then neg the crap out of them.
Just kidding, I will give them a netural if anyting saying they could not follow the instructions in the end of auction e-mail. Sorry they had check out problems.
posted on March 5, 2002 12:17:07 AM newJim: I just spent about 6 emails walking a newbie thru how to pay me -- he was complaining that my "checkout" didn't work!
Of course, I DON'T PARTICIPATE in checkout & even have a huge NO CHECKOUT traffic sign in all of my auctions!
"What? Me worry?" A.E. Newman
(I just adore sig lines! )
)