posted on April 11, 2002 06:04:30 PM new
I have been an Ebayer for several years (buying and selling), was one of the first Paypal user since their inception. I had the misfortune of dealing with an Ebay seller on 02/08 and 02/09, buying 2 of his/her gift cards/certificates (one for $70+ and the other one for $190+), used my credit card via Paypal to pay for these items separately and never received any of the items. I was not the only one conned by this seller for I have contacted several other buyers who also informed me that they too have not received their goods. I have filed with the seller's local police department (never heard anything), tried to call with no success, etc. (name it, I've probably done it). I filed Paypal Investigation/Complaint on 02/21, received an e-mail from Paypal on 03/04 (were they quick or what!) to inform me via their generic e-mail "We found the seller at fault and we can't get your money back so too bad, too sad. WE DON'T GUARANTEE RECOVERY AND WE JUST DON'T CARE!" During this time, I have also called my credit card company to dispute the 2 charges made to Paypal, citing that merchandise was never received. A few days after, I received forms from the credit card company regarding the dispute and mailed the forms, including all the documentations received from Paypal. Today, I received a letter from my credit card company stating "Since Paypal provided the service to you, we have no options available to assist you. You must attempt to resolve this dispute directly with the seller." I was able to file Ebay Online Fraud Reporting Form after 30 days from auction close on 03/10 and 03/12 for the 2 auctions, informing me to wait for another 30 days before filing and mailing the insurance claim. Today, I checked on the status of my online fraud report. I clicked on the "View or Respond to Complaint": the seller did not attempt to resolve the problem. I clicked on "Report on Status of Complaint" it asked me if the problem was resolved, I clicked "NO" It then tells me to try to contact the Attorney General of the seller's state, can't file a mail fraud complaint because payment was done via Paypal, and on the very end, it tells me "You are not eligible for insurance because either you or the other party has a feedback rating of less than 0." This one got me really confused because I have over 1,000 feedbacks (yes, can't believe I got conned either!) and the seller had 1 feedback, both of us were registered users at the time the auction closed. The seller currently has a negative feedback and his/her account has either been closed by Ebay or the seller closed his/her account. Is this what Ebay is referring to? Of course, he/she would receive negative feedbacks for he/she has conned several buyers and where several buyers have reported the seller to Ebay, either the seller or Ebay closed the account. I believe that Ebay closed the seller's account because he/she attempted to sell more gift cards auctions with item description explicitly saying something to the extent: wait for a month before I ship your gift card. You can't do that, don't bid." I've met all the eligible requirements for filing Ebay Insurance Claims: (1) item was listed and purchased on eBay (2) winning/highest bidder (3) seller and I were in good standing at eBay (both parties have net feedback rating of zero or above at the end of the listing) and have not been suspended at the time of the transaction (4) currently a member in good standing (5) filed Online Fraud Complaint on 03/10 and 03/12 which is within 60 days of the item's close (6) gift cards sales are legal and in accordance with eBay's User Agreement (7) value of the 2 gift cards separately were over $25 (8) sent the money in good faith to the seller and never received the item (9) not exceeded the three claims per six months limit: this is the first time I've filed one ever.
I am running out of options as to how to recover my money. I really thought that my Citibank card (who I have been with for several years, never had to file any dispute problems up to now, makes monthly charges anywhere from several hundred to several thousand and always pays bill on time …. probably time to change to a different major credit card company who will be able to help me and not turn their back on my time of dire need.) Am I at a point where I have to hire legal help to resolve this problem? Any suggestions/comments? Thank you for taking the time to read this.
posted on April 11, 2002 07:54:52 PM new
I would go back to the CC company and claim that you didn't get your goods from paypal. If Paypal is the "payee" as far as your CC company is concerned, then paypal is responsible for delivery of the goods.
posted on April 11, 2002 08:01:43 PM new
Really sorry to hear about your problem. You're going to have to be persistent with both eBay and your credit card company.
Some insurance companies are reputed to have a standing policy of denying all claims. They only pay up after the claimant makes a nuisance of himself. This may be what you have to do.
I have cruised through the gift card auctions myself and wondered how some sellers could have so many gift cards to sell. I guess your experience is a partial explanation.
posted on April 11, 2002 08:27:38 PM new
Looks like nobody is on your side in this mess. I can sympathize with the Citibank stonewall you ran into. They really are not on the customer's side at all. You may have to write them with copies to appropriate agencies to get any satisfaction. Don't hold your breath.
I guess that this means using a credit card to pay for something doesn't help protect you either.
posted on April 12, 2002 06:46:04 AM new
I am really surprised your cc company denied the claim. They seldom do so. If you think about it from their point of view, why would they? I went through the same thing. If my cc comp had denied my claim, I would have closed my acct, paid everything but the disputed charge (over $1200) and gone away. Then who loses the money and a good, paying customer? The cc comp. They lose all the way around. If it was my company, I would rather see someone else loose the money (like Paypal), while I get to keep my happy customer. I believe that is why most cc companies settle in their customer's favor.
posted on April 12, 2002 06:50:33 AM new
I forgot to add that you should respond, very politely, to the email from Ebay denying your claim. Say exactly what you said here in a calm and rational and polite way. Tell them that if they check their records, they will see that both of you were in good standing on Ebay at the time of the purchase.
Ebay originally denied a claim I had saying that I could file a chargeback with my cc comp and they would not pay up until the cc denied the claim and I proved it. My purchase was paid mostly by cc but about $210 was from Paypal funds. I explained this to them very politely and they reversed their decision and sent the payment.
posted on April 12, 2002 07:05:31 AM new
You can, and should file a USPS postal fraud complaint.
USPS Mail Fraud rules have been updated.
The rules now state:
Payment can have been made eight different ways for a mail fraud complaint to be filed:
Postal Money Order, Other Money Order, Cash, Check, Electronic Transfer, Credit Card, Debit Card or Telephone Bill.
In addition:
The item may have been delivered via USPS, private courier, or in person.
posted on April 12, 2002 10:21:51 AM new
I would say be persistant with your credit card company. Sounds like you were denied, and accepted it. I would talk to that person's supervisor, and if that does not work, that person's supervisor. They may see you as enough of a nuisance that they may credit you. Good Luck, sounds awful.
posted on April 12, 2002 11:35:50 AM new
Thank you very much for all the response. I have e-mailed Ebay Safe Harbor regarding my eligibility to file the insurance claims but have not heard from them. I am also in the process of calling Citibank to work this out, hopefully in my favor. If not, my only option would be to cut my card in 2, pay my last and final bill minus the disputed amount but I'm worried about ruining my credit report this way. Would anyone know of a phone number that I can call to Ebay regarding this matter? Worst comes to worst, anyone know of an honest and reliable legal counsel familiar with my situation?
Once again, I sincerely appreciate all the support.
posted on April 12, 2002 12:08:51 PM new
Sometimes this works, it is a simple process.
Place a claim against the seller through your small claims court, usually located in the county seat of the county you live in. The court will make your claim known to the seller and he will have to appear before the court or hire a lawyer to defend himself, this cost $$$. If the seller doesn't respond to the court of claims, then a judgement will be made in your favor. He/she may still not respond, but someday the judgement will bite the seller in the ass when the judgement is recorded at the credit Bur.
Also, in regard to Ebay, keep after them, they will always tell you the claim is denied.
posted on April 12, 2002 12:15:10 PM new
You don't need to send a request to Safe Harbor. Just reply to the email they sent denying your claim and make sure the denial is attached or copied into your current email. I don't know how long it might take to make it back to the right area otherwise.
I don't agree that Ebay will always deny the claim. I had to make 2 different ones on the problem I had. The first one they paid with no problems (although it took almost 2 months and a BBB complaint to get the check). The other one they initially denied but they were wrong. I politely explained their error and in a couple of weeks, they had approved the claim.
[ edited by stormypetr on Apr 12, 2002 12:17 PM ]
