REAMOND
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posted on April 18, 2002 11:10:05 AM new
The AW board may pick up a lot of new members. It's somewhat odd that eBay toughens board policing while AW does away with board monitoring.
[url]http://news.com.com/2100-1017-885574.html[url]
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jdk156
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posted on April 18, 2002 01:10:37 PM new
Well I hope they don't start monitoring EO. IMOHO this board gets along just fine without them. This is the only board I have seen that you can actually learn and have a little fun too! Anything that gets out of hand goes away soon enough. except that one thread a while back. But it too, did go away.
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REAMOND
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posted on April 18, 2002 01:22:11 PM new
It is amazing what happens when adults are treated as adults.
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jdk156
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posted on April 18, 2002 01:40:26 PM new
My thoughts exactly! 
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yellowstone
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posted on April 18, 2002 02:49:52 PM new
It is my understanding though that Ebay reps do visit the AW boards and what you say here can have an effect on your Ebay business dealings.
I seem to recall several discussions here where a member said something that then effected their membership status on Ebay.
Oh by the way I am not yellowstone on Ebay.
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classicrock000
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posted on April 18, 2002 06:09:08 PM new
yellowstone--your not yellowstone on ebay?
ahhh you own a park right?
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yellowstone
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posted on April 18, 2002 07:26:06 PM new
Yes I do own a park but it isn't in Wyoming or Montana or wherever Yellowstone Nat'l. park is. My 100 acre park is in New Mexico about 25 miles southwest of Taos.
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outoftheblue
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posted on April 18, 2002 07:43:19 PM new
yellowstone
I think I remember the person you are referring to. He came up with a nifty little trick to avoid paying Ebay fees. It was more likely that someone from this board turned him in. He was not very well liked around here.
I really doubt that Ebay reps monitor discussion boards. They have, or should have, better things to do with their time.
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kiara
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posted on April 18, 2002 07:59:50 PM new
I think quite a few buyers and sellers have been hurt over the years because of misinformation that was posted about them on the boards. There is always a kind of gang mentality and many times people take sides without knowing the full story because only the buyer or the seller is telling their version of it.
It's wrong to have ID's posted without permission. I wouldn't want anyone discussing me and my auctions on a public board without my knowledge.
I'm pretty sure that ebay reads these boards at AW but that's just my opinion.
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outoftheblue
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posted on April 18, 2002 08:13:35 PM new
kiara
>>"It's wrong to have ID's posted without permission. I wouldn't want anyone discussing me and my auctions on a public board without my knowledge."<<
I'm with you on that. Many times the accusations that are flying around are the result of a mis-undestanding.
Freedom of speech is great but taken to extremes it does more harm than good.
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figmente
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posted on April 18, 2002 08:31:24 PM new
People should not be allowed to reveal that they have been ripped off. This might warn a few others away and harm the scam, oops, I mean valued business members.
However this policy does not go far enough to protect ebaY's paying sellers. In addition they need to remove any negative feedback left against sellers in case they might be libelous.
[ edited by figmente on Apr 18, 2002 08:50 PM ]
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intercraft
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posted on April 18, 2002 08:36:30 PM new
"Freedom of speech is great but taken to extremes it does more harm than good."
any amount of a broach on freedom is acceptance of that freedom being non-existant
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outoftheblue
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posted on April 18, 2002 08:48:29 PM new
figmente
>>"People should not be allowed to reveal that they have been ripped off."<<
Note: I said that many times the accusations that are flying around [discussion boards] are a result of mis-understanding. Sometimes they are outright slander by someone maliciously attempting to trash the reputation of another person. Sometimes a person who feels they have been mistreated in some way blows things way out of perportion. This can cause problems for the person you are accusing, for yourself and for the people who own the discussion board.
That is what feedback is for, letting people know how a transaction went.. If you feel you have been ripped of leave feedback, then, the smart buyers will read it and either bid or not bid.
[ edited by outoftheblue on Apr 18, 2002 08:49 PM ]
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outoftheblue
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posted on April 18, 2002 08:59:09 PM new
>>"any amount of a broach on freedom is acceptance of that freedom being non-existant"<<
We are talking about discussion boards. These boards are not public property. They are owned and operated by a company. They have the right to set rules of conduct, just like someone would who invited you into their home. If you step out of line they are perfectly within their rights to boot you out the door.
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fluffythewondercat
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posted on April 18, 2002 10:18:56 PM new
Um, I think the point was not that the owner of these boards has the right to regulate content, but that you (outoftheblue) and kiara have expressed a desire to infringe on the freedoms of others.
After all, there is NO AW RULE prohibiting the posting of eBay IDs here. If the owner of the boards does not object to it, what right do you have?
None, as I see it.
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fluffythewondercat
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posted on April 18, 2002 10:21:12 PM new
"I wouldn't want anyone discussing me and my auctions on a public board without my knowledge."
Really? As long as the discussions are factual, why not?
Are you under the impression that you have the right to impose a gag order in your business dealings?
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kiara
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posted on April 18, 2002 10:50:23 PM new
After all, there is NO AW RULE prohibiting the posting of eBay IDs here. If the owner of the boards does not object to it, what right do you have?
Oh, really? Perhaps you had better read the User Agreement here at AW.
8.6. Breach. You will breach this Agreement if you:
g) Post private information about any person that is not readily available to the general public. This includes, but is not limited to, phone numbers, addresses, full names, email addresses, and an auction ID or auction user ID.
j) Post a link to any auction in order to promote the auction or discuss the seller/buyer.
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kiara
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posted on April 18, 2002 10:56:40 PM new
"I wouldn't want anyone discussing me and my auctions on a public board without my knowledge."
Really? As long as the discussions are factual, why not?
The big problem is the word "factual". How much is truly factual and how much is just one side of the story?
Are you under the impression that you have the right to impose a gag order in your business dealings?
Simply said, I have the right to protect my business any way I see possible. There are whackos on message boards and whackos that lurk, whacko netcops, etc. Why do you think most of us use anonymous IDs here?
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outoftheblue
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posted on April 18, 2002 11:18:09 PM new
fluffythewondercat
>>"After all, there is NO AW RULE prohibiting the posting of eBay IDs here. If the owner of the boards does not object to it, what right do you have?"<<
For one thing, I believe the topic of this discussion is the Ebay message boards and the new rules. But, as kiara mentioned if you would like to read the AW user agreement you will see that you are wrong.
>>"As long as the discussions are factual, why not?"<<
Are you kidding, or are you really that naive. How are we to know which information is factual and which information is fiction? We are only hearing one side of the story, unless the other party is invited to participate. If you really think that the majority of the complaints here are factual information then you are a perfect candidate for MLA run over and sign up now..
[ edited by outoftheblue on Apr 18, 2002 11:23 PM ]
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twinsoft
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posted on April 18, 2002 11:22:28 PM new
It looks to me like eBay is trying to curb vigilantism so I think this is a good idea. The new rules also serve to protect eBay from liability and bad PR.
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figmente
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posted on April 19, 2002 05:49:21 AM new
The new rules are more to protect the guilty than the innocent.
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fluffythewondercat
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posted on April 19, 2002 07:53:48 AM new
<i>The big problem is the word "factual". How much is truly factual and how much is just one side of the story?</i>
We're talking about YOUR auctions here. Presumably you know what is factual and what is not.
That you have an earnest desire to squelch factual discussion of your auctions and your business practices seems clear to me.
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fluffythewondercat
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posted on April 19, 2002 08:00:42 AM new
"g) Post private information about any person that is not readily available to the general public. This includes, but is not limited to, phone numbers, addresses, full names, email addresses, and an auction ID or auction user ID."
eBay auction user IDs are available to the entire world. I think that qualifies as `the general public'. <snork> I read this as saying that you cannot post private information LINKED to an eBay auction user ID.
Persons using their eBay auction user IDs on AW would be violating this rule according to your, um, interpretation.
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REAMOND
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posted on April 19, 2002 08:09:19 AM new
Opinions aren't a problem, but statements of opinion colored with untrue facts might be.
I also disagree with the notion of the "private" BB at an auction site being a no free speech zone. Historically, the public market place for goods has also been the site of free speech and communication about ideas among free societies.
As the net is commercialized and privatized, where will the free and public exchange of ideas take place ?
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twinsoft
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posted on April 19, 2002 08:37:50 AM new
Free speech on eBay's boards isn't a constitutional right. The boards are provided by eBay for users to chat and discuss auctions, not to harass eBay's management or take deride other sellers. There are mechanisms in place to address those issues. Although SafeHarbor is far from perfect, there are in fact pseudo-members ready and willing to harass others based on little or no facts. The Vigilante Board is not something I would like to see at eBay.
eBay's new rules are really nothing more than the same rules we've had at AuctionWatch for years. I remember eBay's Live Support Board a couple of years back, during the big 2-week crash. Some guy posted as a lawyer soliciting for a class action suit against eBay. eBay doesn't have to provide the bandwidth for that kind of posting. The day after the guy posted, Live Support Board was disabled and didn't come back for a year. It's no surprise eBay is now "clarifying" its board usage rules following another major outage.
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kiara
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posted on April 19, 2002 09:16:44 AM new
fluffythewondercat said:
We're talking about YOUR auctions here. Presumably you know what is factual and what is not.
Of course I know what is factual or not. The big problem about this is that sometimes the people who choose to post the auction only see facts according to their interpretation and soon enough everyone else jumps on the bandwagon without knowing dickeydoo and away it goes. Eventually the innocent seller gets hurt for no reason at all. I have seen this happen but fortunately not to me.
That you have an earnest desire to squelch factual discussion of your auctions and your business practices seems clear to me.
I don't see why you have any reason to discuss my auctions or business practices because you don't know anything about them, right? And for what purpose? Merely gossip? Truthfully, it is none of your business.
As far as interpreting the User Agreement here, why not just e-mail AW and ask them and then post it here.
edited for spellin' 
[ edited by kiara on Apr 19, 2002 09:18 AM ]
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outoftheblue
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posted on April 20, 2002 02:05:50 PM new
>>"That you have an earnest desire to squelch factual discussion of your auctions and your business practices seems clear to me."<<
Because a person's oppinion differs from your's on this matter you bring into question their ethics.
Fluffy, master of fuzzy logic.
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rgrem
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posted on April 20, 2002 07:35:07 PM new
kiara says "without knowing dickeydoo and ....". You don't hear that expression very often, but I heard it the other night when I got a "dickeydoo" award. The award said "Here's to 'Joe Doe', who is presented this award, because his belly sticks out farther than his dickeydoo."
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clarksville
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posted on April 22, 2002 12:01:22 PM new
About three years ago eBay toughened up on the cafe and there some suspensions and an impressible exodus. A major upheaval. This new and recent incident is nothing compared to that time.
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