caffeitalia
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posted on August 3, 2002 09:18:58 PM
Here is a link of an official government site for license renewal. Is there a charge for credit card use, absolutely.
http://dutchelm.dps.state.mn.us/dvsinfo/mainframepublic.asp
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sparkz
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posted on August 3, 2002 09:32:38 PM
Interesting. Many states have taken to disposing of surplus property via Ebay. I'm wondering if Minnesota is one of them? If so, I'd like to see their TOS regarding CC or Paypal payments.
The light at the end of the tunnel will turn out to be an oncoming train.
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revvassago
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posted on August 4, 2002 06:21:46 AM
Is charging a fee for credit card use legal? YES
If you are the government.
They can get away with it because they regulate the banks which issue the credit cards. You, however, do not.
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Coonr
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posted on August 4, 2002 08:24:50 AM
While the fees may or may not be 'legal' they do violate the terms of use at eBay, Billpoint, and PayPal.
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revvassago
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posted on August 4, 2002 08:30:18 AM
Yes, but caffeitalia is using the Government's acceptance policy of credit cards to justify caffeitalia's charging of credit card fees on eBay.
Apples and Oranges
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dman3
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posted on August 4, 2002 08:32:43 AM
yes it's not a matter of is it legal or isn't it at all.
it's a matter of the terms of use you agree to with various companies.
visa and mastercard do not allow it paypal and ebay do not allow it now even if you can legally do it if you use these sevices you agree not to charge by using there service.
http://www.Dman-N-Company.com
Email [email protected]
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jwoodcrafts
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posted on August 4, 2002 09:02:17 AM
I guess I wouldn't know if it is legal or not. Some people say yes and others say no.
I know that whether it is or isn't, some places still do it.
Our local Western Auto for example, was going to charge me 5.00 for paying on my account with a Mastercard.
This is a local owned Western Auto, and they do all their finacning through a local bank, not the Western Auto company itself. I made a financed purchase and was afraid if I mailed my payment it would be late, as it was the first payment, had no payment book, and I was not sure of the exact day of the month it was due on.
The store is 35 miles away and instead of driving there I wanted to make the payment using a mastercard.
They told me that I could do that, but they would have to charge me an extra 5.00 because that is what it cost them to accept payments of that manner.
Luckily, it turned out that I ended up having plenty of time to snail mail it to them, so I didn't have to worry about.
But I have always wondered since then, that if they could collect fees like that, why do people get told that they can't collect PayPal fees for credit card payments.
Isn't it the same for the little folks just like it is for the big folks???
Maybe not.
http://www.candlesandwoodcrafts.com
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twinsoft
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posted on August 4, 2002 09:04:45 AM
It's illegal in California, and eBay is in California.
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biskitsandgravie
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posted on August 4, 2002 02:12:59 PM
It is against both mastercard and visa policy. It is in the contract you sign when you accept MC & Visa.
If you are reported they can terminate your merchant account.
To report:
http://www.mastercard.com/cgi-bin/contactus.cgi?template=ContactUsMV
A state University had a surcharge in the 80's and 90's for tuition. Student scomplained and they were forced to stop taking credit cards for years. They started back, without the surcharge. Maybe the goverment agency you listed has not not had a complaint made against them yet.
[ edited by biskitsandgravie on Aug 4, 2002 02:14 PM ]
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revvassago
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posted on August 4, 2002 03:02:57 PM
The IRS charges a fee if you pay your taxes with a CC too.
It isn't a matter of being caught. It is a matter of a government agency not being subject to the same rules as a private citizen.
Again, apples and oranges.
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sanmar
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posted on August 4, 2002 05:53:41 PM
It is against the rules of all credit card companies. When you sign an agreement with Master Card & Visa, you agree not to put a surcharge on a sale. I know this from having been in business & accepting CC's. Also it is illegal in the state of CA as well. I guess that govt entities can get away with it.
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biskitsandgravie
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posted on August 5, 2002 06:34:18 AM
A state run university is a govenment entity the same as the DMV or the courthouse.
If people complain Mastercard and Visa will stop them.
Most people just don't know it isn't allowed.
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RB
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posted on August 5, 2002 06:40:13 AM
... paypal and ebay do not allow it now even if you can legally do it if you use these sevices you agree not to charge by using there service
eBay won't "allow" a seller to charge for using PayPal, but they will "allow" the same seller to offer a discount for not using PayPal.
More apples and oranges maybe?
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Libra63
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posted on August 5, 2002 07:32:19 AM
Yes I did notice an auction where in the TOS is said if paying by check you get a 5% discount.
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replaymedia
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posted on August 5, 2002 07:43:11 AM
The bottom line is you can do anything you want. Charge for them if you like.
But don't be surprised if someone with a different opinion than yours shuts you down.
It doesn't matter who's right or wrong.
It doesn't matter if it's legal or illegal. What matters is who is in charge?
If eBay shuts you down for it, are you really going to take them to court with even the possibility that you are wrong? Probably not, so break the rules at your own risk.
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caffeitalia
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posted on August 5, 2002 09:35:21 PM
The thread is about if it is legal to charge the fees. It is against the policies of these companies to charge it and I do not dispute that. It is very clear in there terms. But then they say that it is illegal to do so as well. The truth is, that is just a straight out lie.
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biskitsandgravie
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posted on August 6, 2002 01:24:58 PM
But then they say that it is illegal to do so as well. The truth is, that is just a straight out lie.
Is it a straight out lie? I was under the impression that it is illegal in several states.
Does anyone know what states if any prohibit the practice?
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findingtreasures4u
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posted on August 6, 2002 10:16:59 PM
I worked for a company that was losing over 1 million dollars a year in credit card charges. They got around the law by giving a "discount" to non credit card users. It is not legal to charge a fee but you can give a discount.
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rnaudit1
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posted on August 7, 2002 07:20:03 AM
I just got a WBN from a seller in England who said that she "Happily" accepts Paypal for an additional $5.00 fee. Is this legal?
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RB
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posted on August 7, 2002 07:39:06 AM
It is not legal to charge a fee but you can give a discount
Which amounts to exactly the same thing!
Sounds like a politician's spin to me ... what a farce.
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Wolftreks
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posted on August 7, 2002 07:49:23 AM
I live in MN and last summer when our van licenses were due I went online to purchase them instead of driving the 60 miles to our motor vehicle department and found they charged a percentage for using my credit card.
I knew this was not legal with Mastercard and emailed Mastercard to asks if the state of MN could do this. They said no it was not legal with all major credit cards. LOL Gotta love our governments.
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sanmar
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posted on August 7, 2002 04:13:48 PM
I took this off Google: "In some states the customer can be assessed a surcharge for using a credit card. However there are laws against credit card surchargews in CA, CO, CT, FL, KS, MA, ME, NY, OK & TX. American Express discourages them in general, and prohibits merchants from charging them if the merchant accept Visa & Mastercared. Discover allows surcharges except in the above mentioned states. Master Card & Visa forbid the use of surcharges, & the merchant can be excluded from accepting them. The one exception is if you pay a state license by Credit Card, you may have to pay a surcharge.There are no exceptions for Retail Merchants."
[ edited by sanmar on Aug 7, 2002 04:18 PM ]
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quickdraw29
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posted on August 7, 2002 06:30:37 PM
If it was true that ebay & Paypal had to enforce California law because that is where they reside, why is it companies like Barnes And Noble only charge a sales tax to buyers who reside in a state where there is a Barnes and Noble?
Either ebay and paypal have the dumbest lawyers, or they're lying when they told me they have to enforce the California state law.
Do what several booming businesses around here do, they don't take credit cards. Then you can lower your prices and attract more business, and the buyers can shoulder the debit card fees.
Everyone is entitled to my opinion.
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caffeitalia
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posted on August 7, 2002 06:45:58 PM
Here is an government agency in California charging for credit card use. Still think it is illegal there as well?
http://www.dmv.ca.gov/online/vrir/vr_top2.htm
I have my doubts about any such law in CA.
[ edited by caffeitalia on Aug 7, 2002 06:46 PM ]
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uaru
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posted on August 7, 2002 09:51:28 PM
I don't believe government agencies such as the department of motor vehicles fall in to the classification of 'retailers'. Yes it is illegal for retailers to charge a surcharge in California, but more important than that Meg doesn't allow it on eBay.
California Civil Code Section 1747-1748.7
1748.1. (a) No retailer in any sales, service, or lease transaction with a consumer may impose a surcharge on a cardholder who elects to use a credit card in lieu of payment by cash, check, or similar means. A retailer may, however, offer discounts for the purpose of inducing payment by cash, check, or other means not involving the use of a credit card, provided that the discount is offered to all prospective buyers.
[ edited by uaru on Aug 7, 2002 09:51 PM ]
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quickdraw29
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posted on August 7, 2002 10:55:59 PM
Well, it was illegal in Florida, and the government wanted a surcharge, so they reworded the law. So the government is not above the law.
Everyone is entitled to my opinion.
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colin
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posted on August 8, 2002 03:48:59 AM
legal or not it's just bad business.
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quickdraw29
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posted on August 8, 2002 08:19:39 AM
Why is it bad business? How much manipulation do sellers have to put up with? Why is it alright for buyers to pay unreasonably low prices on shippng and handling, but also credit card fees, yet sellers get crusified if they charge enough to cover fair value?
It's bad business to give into this manipulation and suck up these losses.
Everyone is entitled to my opinion.
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