posted on August 28, 2002 01:45:07 PM new
If you were to see the following information on a listing (exact cut), would you see anything wrong?
YOU ARE BIDDING ON AN EMMY CONSIDERATION VHS OF XXX XXXX- STARRING XXX XXX -------FOR ADDITIONAL INFORMATION ON THIS PROGRAM GO TO WWW.ALLMOVIE.COM---NOTE: THIS ITEM IS A DEMO/PROMOTION/PREVIEW VIDEO-------- MAY CONTAIN TRAILERS AND PROMOTIONAL WARNINGS AT BOTTOM OF SCREEN DURING FEATURE-------.COULD BE CONSIDERED A COLLECTIBLE.------ SLEEVE ART MAY BE DIFFERENT FROM RETAIL VERSION
If I listed this, it would be immediately taken down. Just so happens that a powerseller with a 3000+ feedback has listed this, and about 50 just like it.
The following report was presented to eBay a few days ago and absolutely nothing has been done to stop this bootlegger.
1. These listings offer a demo/promotional copy of a videotape as evidenced in this statement in the seller's description: "NOTE: THIS ITEM IS A DEMO/PROMOTION/PREVIEW VIDEO"
2. These listings offer a product that may not be as described in the listing as evidenced by this statement in the seller's description: "SLEEVE ART MAY BE DIFFERENT FROM RETAIL VERSION"
3. These listings offer a product that may be a bootleg copy of a commerically released movie as evidenced by this statement in the seller's description: "SLEEVE ART MAY BE DIFFERENT FROM RETAIL VERSION"
4. These listings mislead bidders into believing that these Emmy Consideration tapes are available on a retail basis as evidenced by this statement in the seller's description: "SLEEVE ART MAY BE DIFFERENT FROM RETAIL VERSION." In fact, these items are NOT available retail - they were produced specifically for Academy Members and are not available to the general public.
5. These listings include statements and warnings that they are not to be rented or sold, and are to be returned to the studio after viewing. The seller has indicated this is the statement: "MAY CONTAIN TRAILERS AND PROMOTIONAL WARNINGS AT BOTTOM OF SCREEN DURING FEATURE."
Note that this seller has many more similiar listings. In light of the fact that other sellers have been suspended by eBay for listing these items, I trust eBay will take immediate and appropriate action against this seller and suspend his/her eBay priviledges.
posted on August 29, 2002 06:44:01 AM newReceived this from eBay Customer Support this morning:
Hello,
Thank you for taking the time to write us. We know your time is valuable and we appreciate your taking a moment to express concern over this particular item.
We will look into the item(s) you have reported to us as quickly as possible. eBay's Community Watch team reviews all user reports of items, normally within 24 -36 hours.
To ensure that we can quickly and efficiently act on each report that we
receive, we do not ordinarily follow up with 3rd party reporters/users with the results of our review, or the rationale for our decision. In certain circumstances, we may contact you by email if we need further
information concerning your report. We pledge to quickly examine your report and apply our guidelines fairly.
Please be sure to check our Listing Policy pages for information on eBay listing policies and guidelines:
If you received an informational alert or warning, and you have additional questions, or you have another listing to report, please
contact us at the following link:
http://pages.ebay.com/help/basics/select-RS.html
In order for us to investigate reports in a timely manner, please do not respond to this email. If you reply to this message we will not receive your email. All communications should be sent to the link provided above.
Again, thank you for your report. We appreciate your help in keeping eBay a safe and reputable forum to conduct business.
Regards,
eBay Community Watch
My response to the "link above"
Thank you for your response.
This is part of a study being conducted with respect to how eBay applies Policy to it's members. Coincidental with this report, another report was made regarding identical in all respects items listed by a volunteer eBay non-PowerSeller. In those cases, the seller was asked to avoid including phrases in the TOS that should provide proof to eBay that the items violated several eBay policies (as I listed in my original email). Those items are no longer in the eBay database, yet the PowerSeller reported items are.
As a result of this study, it now appears that eBay PowerSellers, in addition to receiving special priviledges by eBay, also get special treatment by eBay when listing and selling infringing and illegal items on their venue. Not only are their listings for these types of items allowed to continue to closing, they are also allowed to list new, identical type items continuously, and they appear to be immune to the eBay suspension process that applies to non-PowerSellers who attempt to list and sell the same items.
I will be passing this information on to TAG and perhaps they can use their resources to get the results of this study out to the on line auction world.
posted on August 29, 2002 09:09:36 AM new
Did you read his about me page. Why not go to his talk show and aske him about it. That would be very interesting. Sounds like he shoots videos also, so maybe that is what he is selling? Keep up the good work.
posted on August 29, 2002 09:31:51 AM new
Hey tomyou and pelorus ...
I'd love to help you guys out. I have 1000's of these tapes, including Emmys, studio review, studio not-for-review, and background purposes only tapes. I've got Pilots from series that never made it to the air, uncut eps of stuff that is airing now. If it's teevee related, I probably have it or can get it.
But, everytime I try to list even one of these on eBay, it gets zapped immediately.
The wierd thing about this seller is that s/he has almost copied eBay's "what you are not allowed to sell" policy verbatim and stated that his/her items meet all of the condtions that prohibit them from being sold! And not just on eBay, but everywhere including the infamous Little Old Lady Charity Sales and Sci Fi Conventions.
Please God, make me a PowerSeller too
Well, now that the cat's out of the bag wrt the seller, I copied my email to him and suggested that perhaps he would like to invite the MPAA to his show so they could discuss his illegal and copyright infringing activites as an eBay Big Shot
posted on August 29, 2002 09:32:58 AM new
I don't necessarily think this has to do with Powerseller status. eBay lets the MPAA do their own policing of their Site. If it's not reported by the MPAA as an illegal auction, it most likely won't be pulled.
posted on August 29, 2002 09:47:25 AM new
vidpro ... if you're not aware of how the MPAA responds to these, what they call "minor" issues with auction venues like eBay, you may want to think about changing the last 4 letters of your AW username
Right after that, check out the MPAA site under "Anti-Piracy" and see what these guys really spend their time doing.
The odd MPAA member studio does their VeRO thing once in awhile, but that's about it.
I just find it strange that an eBay PowerSeller can blatantly violate almost every eBay copyright rule in his listing descriptions, yet be allowed to remain. For us normal folk, eBay sometimes let an 'iffy' item go because of the way the description is worded. If they can't hold the item in their own hands, they can't pass judgement. This is fair, however in this case, the seller is freely admitting via his description that he is selling illegal items and eBay does zippo!
Go figure eh ...
[ edited by RB on Aug 29, 2002 09:47 AM ]
posted on August 30, 2002 05:40:55 AM new
In my experience, whining to eBay about apparent disparities in rule enforcement never works. If you step back and look at it again, it's not that surprising.
The California Highway Patrol stops some tiny percentage of the people who speed, probably .0001% of the total. If you are the unlucky mark, it will do you no good to complain that 100 other people were speeding even more than you were at the same time. You're nailed, now pay your fine.
It would be prohibitively expensive to staff enough law enforcement officers and equipment to catch even 10% of the speeders on a given day.
So...eBay's going to spend money trying to prove that some random sorehead is right in his assertions? I don't think so.
Life isn't fair, if you haven't figured that out already.
posted on August 30, 2002 07:21:20 AM new
Here's the next report sent to eBay on this PowerSeller:
Hello again ...
On August 27, 2002, you responded to a report that I made several days earlier regarding illegal copyright infringing items being listed and sold on eBay. You advised me that:
"Thank you for reporting these auctions. I am more than happy to assist
you. I have forwarded your email to our Community Watch Team, as they are better suited to help you with this issue. Someone from that team will be in contact with you soon as possible. Have a very pleasant day."
(signed) Scott F. S., eBay PowerSeller Support
To date, nothing had been done to the listings I reported and I see the seller continues to create new listings for similiar material. Today, I note the following newly listed items that violate the same policies as pointed out in my original complaint (copy of my original complaint attached to this email sent to eBay):
(total of 15 new listing numbers follow, one with an asterisk beside it)
(*) this listing includes the phrase: "PROMO/SCREENER- MAY CONTAIN PROMO TRAILERS AND NOTICE FOOTERS DURING FEATURE" This violates yet ANOTHER eBay Policy!!!
What more needs to be done to prove that this seller is being allowed to list and sell illegal, copyright infringing materials that the average eBbay seller is not permitted to do? I have issued a challenge to the seller to respond to my question, but he refuses to do so.
Please respond with an action plan or admit that eBay Powersellers are allowed to violate policy with no consequences.
posted on August 31, 2002 03:55:29 PM new
And now they have the noids to send me a "Customer Satisfaction Survey". Surely these don't get read either, right?
posted on August 31, 2002 04:40:26 PM new
I understand what RB is saying. What is good for one should be good for another, Power Seller or not. I am sure if all of us were sitting here with tapes like that Power Seller we would want to sell them also. If it helps RB to get his tapes sold than more power to him, keep it up. Every one has a delema and at one point in time comes in here to vent. That's fine also. Look how long it took President Jackswebb, power seller that he is to get zip codes on the auction slip. I don't consider what he is doing is whinning but trying to make a more level playing field.
posted on August 31, 2002 08:47:09 PM new
Libra63: Jack requested a feature that would be helpful to many eBayers.
RB the Canadian wants eBay to drop the hammer on this particular PowerSeller because he has a hate on for PowerSellers. In my opinion it was a mistake to single out a single seller, a PowerSeller, and whine (yes, whine) to eBay about him. His statement:
[i]...it now appears that eBay PowerSellers, in addition to receiving special priviledges by eBay, also get
special treatment by eBay when listing and selling infringing and illegal items on their venue[/i]
...makes it sound like he's envious of PowerSellers and perhaps ticked off that he doesn't qualify.
A better, less-whiny approach would have been to cite numerous examples of what he believes is illegal infringement.
The way he went about it, though, makes it look like a vendetta.
posted on August 31, 2002 08:59:21 PM newRB the Canadian wants eBay to drop the hammer on this particular PowerSeller
This is just one of many. The thing that makes this particualar seller unique is that he actually uses the same words in his descriptions that eBay uses to describe items that CANNOT be sold on their venue. He's got huge balls and you have to know that he knows he can sell anything he wants and get away with it. His listings are still running and more are being added daily!
...makes it sound like he's envious of PowerSellers and perhaps ticked off that he doesn't qualify.
Wrong.
A better, less-whiny approach would have been to cite numerous examples of what he believes is illegal infringement.
All you have to do is check out the eBay page where it describes what cannot be sold, then this seller's listings. It's almost a perfect match! This isn't rocket science ... really.
I don't think I am allowed to post specific references to listings on AW ... the smart ones here already know exactly who I am referring to.
As to a vendetta, I don't know this seller and have naver had any dealings with him. He is just the example I am using. There are several more that get away with the same stuff on eBay ... and, the smart ones here know that too.
posted on August 31, 2002 09:21:59 PM new
RB, a couple of points. I think you're taking the wrong approach. Anyone can see through your pretext of "conducting a study." I would read your email and think, "Well, here's a guy who got his auctions ended, and now he's on a vendetta." From my experience (yes I have been there) that rarely works.
Even if you got the results you desire, you still wouldn't be able to sell your own "screener" copies as I think you'll agree that is a copyright infringement. The tapes themselves sport a disclaimer that says "not legal for resale" or whatever.
What you seem to be saying is that eBay has an unstated, company-wide policy that PowerSellers auctiosn are hands-off. I do not believe that is true. Do you really think that eBay is going to tell 150 pimply-faced college drop-out support reps that "we're going to ignore violations by PowerSellers? " That would leave eBay wide open for litigation, etc.
As a PowerSeller, I've had auctions shut down. One of my competitors got a week suspension, followed by a month suspension, for repeatedly violating the "no links" policy. (Ironically, that competitor was featured in "eBay for Dummies" and a couple other publications.) OneCentCDs, one of eBay's highest rated sellers, was also threatened with suspension for listing violations. I just do not believe that eBay lets PowerSellers get away with everything.
If you're concerned about your sales, contact other video sellers and do an email campaign. Tell eBay that sales of illegal videos is hurting your eBay businesses. Since eBay has probably labelled you as a crackpot, get a bunch of other sellers involved. Right now, your complaints are probably going directly to "Helen Waite" because of your past status.
Also, eBay may have already warned the other seller. If they did, they probably (usually) wouldn't tell you. PowerSellers may get a couple extra warnings, but eventually they have to toe the line. JMHO.
P.S. Yes, I agree, the seller is obviously violating eBay's rules.
posted on September 1, 2002 05:07:16 AM new
Thanks twin.
I need to make one thing clear in all of this. I have never attempted to list or sell any of my studio review tapes on eBay or any other venue. This includes the "black box" type, the review type, the not-for-review type, the for background purposes only type, the illusive screeners, and anything else that includes a warning on the shell, tape, or on screen.
I have listed and sold Emmy Consideration tapes though, and I will continue to do so.
posted on September 1, 2002 07:17:08 AM new
So if I am following the logic here. This seller built a reputation through their sales, slogging it out until they finally attained Powerseller status, maintaining something like at least $3000 each month in sales, then suddenly, once they achieved that, a light bulb went on (burnt out?) and they jumped for joy because they could finally unload their illegal stuff without any consequences?
I don't think so...perhaps the original poster is on some kind of witch-hunt or is just ticked off for whatever reasons, I would suggest though that its time to move on to greener pastures.
I'm a Powerseller, too, and am not aware of any special treatment I've had on the few auctions that were shut down WITHOUT WARNING when occasionally I've listed something that violated some eBay prohibition I was either not aware of or had forgotten.
posted on September 1, 2002 04:19:17 PM new
upriver ... I think you need to carefully read what I have said. In short form, you as a powerseller can get away with a lot more than me as an average seller, and I have proven this with the above.
That's the point here ...
It's not about a vendetta or me picking on any specific seller.
If I listed some of my review tapes, they would be pulled ... immediately.
If I listed them again, I would be suspended ... immediately.
If I had the balls to openly admit in my listings that the items are illegal and in direct violation to eBay written policy (as this particular seller has), I would deserve everything I get.
Problem is, I and my fellow non-powersellers would get it ... you and your powerseller buddies wouldn't.
twin ... I believe you have had items pulled, but you are still a registered user held in high esteeem by eBay. Again, for the majority of us, if we had listings pulled time and again as you have, we would be eBay history, NARU, gone, out of there.
That's the point here
If anyone cares to dispute these facts (IOW a powerseller who has actually been suspended for continually relisting items that violate eBay policy and the law), let's here from you.
posted on September 2, 2002 01:40:40 PM newIn short form, you as a powerseller can get away with a lot more than me as an average seller, and I have proven this with the above
RB, you haven't proven jack squat.
8 out of 10 AW readers agree: It sure sounds, smells and looks like you're on a vendetta.
posted on September 2, 2002 01:44:22 PM new
[i]As a PowerSeller, I've had auctions shut down. One of my competitors got a week suspension, followed by a month suspension,
for repeatedly violating the "no links" policy. (Ironically, that competitor was featured in "eBay for Dummies" and a couple other
publications.) OneCentCDs, one of eBay's highest rated sellers, was also threatened with suspension for listing violations. [/i]
So was I, and I'm a PowerSeller several times over.
I had an auction ended for keyword spamming; the use of "Gucci" in the title when it wasn't a Gucci product. Unfortunately, it was the term "Gucci link" (referring to the G-shape links in the bracelet) and that's what the manufacturer's tag on the piece reads. You win some, you lose some. You don't devote all your spare time to trying to prove eBay has double standards.
posted on September 2, 2002 05:12:54 PM new
fluffy ... I had an auction ended for keyword spamming; the use of "Gucci" in the title when it wasn't a Gucci product. Unfortunately, it was the term "Gucci link" (referring to the G-shape links in the bracelet) and that's what the manufacturer's tag on the piece reads. You win some, you lose some.
Are you still a registered eBay member after this? If you answer "yes", that's more than a non-powerseller would be able to claim for "losing" the same type of "some".
As to the "squat" I have proven in this thread, how about a legit argument against my proof. For example, can anyone tell me how the seller I have referenced in my original post can continue to be an eBay member in good standing when he continually lists and relists illegal items? If I knew how to post a link I would add the one here that points directly to the eBay page that specifically bans the items this seller is selling, and even uses the same phrases! These are the same type of items that several non-powersellers have attempted to sell and who were subsequently NARU'd when reported.
How much more proof do you need?
edited to add on the "vendetta" thing ... I can name at least 4 eBay Powersellers who get away with selling the same illegal items, but only one of them (the one referenced here) actually states in his listings that his items violate eBay written policy.
posted on September 2, 2002 08:00:09 PM new
Sounds like sour grapes to me.... It seems RB is unable to reach the PS $$ goal and wants to whine about the injustice of it all...
If RB is so fascinated by Powersellers, maybe he should step up his listings and reach that goal himself. Then he too can enjoy all these "benefits" power sellers seem to have (in his mind).
Most of us did not become Powersellers by chance, we worked very hard to earn it, and we work even harder to keep at that level.
We do not maintain PS "status" by cheating, bad service, theft, etc. We pay for the "honor" with all our blood, sweat and tears.
Maybe we do get some perks, if so I am not aware of them. But if we do, we also pay hefty fees, bring return business and tend to teach newbies how to Ebay.
Most of us work hard to maintain our logo (whether we use it or not), and I am sick of hearing folks whine about us. We work as hard, if not harder than RB or anyone else. Why can't we get a break?
posted on September 2, 2002 09:01:07 PM new
The only thing I see is RB is crying about his own mis-behavior. He gets people booted off of these boards when in fact he is the biggest violator of any terms you can imagine. He has been suspended from most auction sites including ebay, Yahoo and others. So in turn, it has become his agenda to term as many auctions as illegal as possible without basis or merit. It has become time for Brenda to do something about this guy here as well. Please Brenda, put a muzzle on this guy. Personally, I have also had auctions pulled because of honest mistakes, but yet they did violate the terms. I was never suspended and am not a powerseller. I did fix the auctions and list them correctly in all of the cases and all was solved. Now I am not suggesting that powersellers are the best thing since sliced bread as I think my views on them have been stated in the past, but what RB does is simply slanderous.
bp
posted on September 2, 2002 11:16:13 PM new
KYMS-I pay the same hefty fees as the power sellers do, I just don't list as much. I know what Jack did and I commend him for that but wouldn't you like to see all sellers play by the same rules no matter if they are power sellers or not. I would. I have not had a bit of trouble with eBay and I don't intend to have any. I abide by the rules set down by eBay so therefore I have no problems. In my estimation rules were not made to be broken. But some people think they aren't being treated fairly and then they have the right to object. I don't know RB or in fact anyone on this board but I am sure we all like a level playing field. When reading that auction it certainly is in violation of eBays rules so why should that seller have his listings stay and others not. Does eBay turn the other cheek and not want to see because of the money he makes, well that is wrong and it should be righted.(is that a word? I hope so)
