posted on December 25, 2002 05:10:52 PM new
I bid on an auction that had a shipping cost of $15.00 and a REQUIRED insurance cost of $3.00. Here's the "rub". The actual amount the seller paid to mail the merchandise was approximately $7.00 and no insurance was paid for.
I had no idea how much the items weighed, so I paid what was asked for. I took the box to the post office to ask if insurance was on it and was told that I was right, none paid for.
I emailed the seller and requested a refund of the $3.00 and he/she (no name or return address on the box, no name given on email replies) responded with don't blame the seller for what the post office says ,I got a good deal and I can send the products back.
This may sound petty, but I sell also and never make my profit from mailing costs and NEVER demand insurance and not give it.
I want to report the seller to Ebay for the insurance demand. What do you think?
posted on December 25, 2002 05:27:26 PM new
he could be doing a "self insured" thing..
its kinda obvious he's overcharging shipping to make a bit more...
this is kinda an old thing isn't? everyone complains about it.
I think a lot of people will be telling you, you bid knowing the shipping charges.
I duno, do you feel like u got ripped off? I mean, you bought that thing for a reason, right? You factored in the shipping charges initially already, right? You didn't mind if that was the actual charges, and you didn't mind paying that much before. So why bother upsetting urself right now?
I say let it go. its too much hassle to demand 3 bucks back for no insurance.
personally I dont make profit out of shipping, I do add in a buck or two if necessary to handle the shipping packaging or any otherthing that may require more time on my part. And if I ever calculate shipping too much, I refund the difference. thats just my own thing.
we all got our own thing, some sellers make profit on shipping, some dont. *shrug* But yeah, its not like he conned that out of you really, it was on the TOS right? You knew how much you were paying for. so again, just let it go.
posted on December 25, 2002 05:34:41 PM new
His shipping price was in the TOS. It's a done deal. You should have asked before you bid if you had any questions. As far as the insurance goes, there is nothing written in stone that a seller has to insure through the USPS when shipping an item Priority Mail. There are at least 3 alternatives to Postal insurance which will never show up on the postage sticker. The probability is that you had much better insurance coverage on your item than what could have been provided by the Postal Service. You are entirely out of line to question the sellers method of insuring his shipments unless there is damage or loss.
The light at the end of the tunnel will turn out to be an oncoming train.
posted on December 25, 2002 05:41:02 PM new
As always if you don't like the TOS don't bid. They stated up front the shipping costs, when you bid you agreeded. Its too late now to say I want a refund.
AS QUESTION BEFORE BIDDING, ONCE YOU DO BID YOU AGREE TO WHATEVER THE TOS IS.
iF YOU DON;T LIKE IT NOW, YOU DON'T HAVE ANYONE TO BLAME BUT YOURSELF.
posted on December 25, 2002 06:49:30 PM new
Follow up to replies.
I never mentioned any complaint to the seller about the shipping cost as I did agree to the $15.00. I am only questioning the insurance thing. I feel if you pay for the insurance, then you should get it.
posted on December 25, 2002 07:34:23 PM new
If you paid for insurance the seller would have most likely given a refund if it was lost or damaged. Why should he return the money just because it made it ok? That is like going to the post office after a package arrives and say you want the insurance fee back because it wasn't needed.
You say you don't know what it weighed, Maybe the seller didn't have a scale and didn't know either and just made up a price when listing it.
posted on December 25, 2002 08:31:10 PM new
If one of my cutomers paid 1.30 for insurance that is what they get USPS insurance self insurance is another way for sellers to make money and hope the item is not lost or damaged
posted on December 25, 2002 09:01:33 PM new
If ya ask me,,,,those who proclaim self insurance should have to post a say,,,let's call it a bond with e bay,,,,,some people self insure their cars too. they have to post a big bond with the D.M.V. I mean where is this self insured money coming from once a $100.00 claim is stated? Are they going to give them the $100.00 out of their pocket???? hahahah.....yeah right....
posted on December 25, 2002 10:18:54 PM new
I will agree, it you pay for insurance you should get USPS insurance. If you don't and the item is lost or damage you are out of luck. Right in the TOS it says insurance cost is $3.00. I suppose we have to email anyone that says that to be sure that that is what they mean. I don't think so. If is says insurance $3.00 I want to see insurance stamped on my package and if it isn't I want a refund or I would like an explination as to why they decided not to insure it. Does it say anything in the TOS about self insurance. I would consider this fee avoidenance. That seller made $11.00 on postage/insurance and he didn't have to pay eBay fees on that.
posted on December 26, 2002 05:31:02 AM new
sparkz "You are entirely out of line to question the sellers method of insuring his shipments unless there is damage or loss".
A buyer has every right to question something they paid for and do not know if the payment went towards what it was supposed to used for. When I sell I don't have any problem with a buyer's asking me any questions about the sale, open or closed auction.
FYI, I rechecked the email the seller sent me and he/she stated it was insured by the USPS. This was NOT a self insure situation.
I guess I will be more careful next time. Maybe I expect too much as I feel sellers should be honest and treat others the same way they want to be treated. When I sell, I never take insurance money and not use it for that purpose, no matter what the amount.
posted on December 26, 2002 05:48:06 AM new
Repeat post [previously posted in the 'self-insured' thread.]
The subject of 'self-insuring' has been the topic of many threads over the years here in AW EO.
I wrote to our state Insurance Commissioner's Office and asked if 'self-insuring' was legal. OUR state Ins. Comm. Office legal department replied that in most states it is required than anyone selling insurance is required to be licensed and bonded by the state they are selling from. They also suggested one contact the USPS website if one was charged for insurance and it was not purchased.
Being fully aware that many sellers do 'self insure', doesn't mean they are doing so legally. Best to check with your own states Ins. Comm. office before doing so. Someone just might report you.
Kellco - If the sellers TOS stated $3.00 for USPS insurance and you did not receive that insurance, your best bet would be to contact the USPS Fraud Website. You can do so online. They might be more able to help than ebay will be.
If it were me, I would have passed on the auction just because it stated the $3.00 ins. fee, or emailed and asked why it was so high. Isn't hind-sight great? Since the package you received was NOT insured, I do believe you have a rightful claim to have your funds refunded. Again, if it were me, I'd email the seller and asked one more time for your ins. refund. I would also ask why insurance was not purchased when paid for.
The only other recourse you have is to put in their FB - Was charged for insurance, but it was not purchased.
posted on December 26, 2002 08:23:52 AM new
I print my postage using Endica. The majority of the items that I ship, where the bidder has requested insurance do not have "insured" stamped on the package. When the label is printed, I have the option of entering a comment like "insured".
My receipt reflects the added cost of insurance, although with the stealth mode, no postage cost is indicated on the lable.
In case the item is lost, I have a valid receipt showing the additional postage for insurace has been paid.
posted on December 26, 2002 08:56:43 AM new
Hi bear - Oh, I do agree that insurance could have been paid for and not show as 'stamped' on the package. I know packages that are insured via U-Pic would be the same way. I did suggest they email and ask the seller. I agree, just because the package doesn't show the 'insured' mark, doesn't mean it wasn't. Hope your holidays were special.
posted on December 28, 2002 07:12:54 AM new
Goodmorning!
I think that if the Seller stated the total cost and said that "Insurance was included", then I would think that either he insured it himself, which would be better for you if there was a problem, rather then claiming your loose with the post office and waiting 30 days or more this seller would refund your money quick and easy.
About the high cost of Shipping.............you placed your bid meaning you agreed to pay 15.00 for shipping.
So now the Seller ships for less well, there is nothing you can do about it except don't bid on any more of His/her Items.
Move on and maybe ask more questions next time before bidding if you feel the cost of shipping to be high. Also you can ask the weight of the item your planning on placing your bid on and check it out yourself in the USPS site, so if your not happy after doing that don't bid.
Also, I would leave a positive feedback if the rest of the transaction went well because your complaint is ...........that you didn't ask questions before bidding so its not right to blame the Seller
posted on December 28, 2002 09:43:12 AM new
Number One:
Self-Insurance is legal. Insuring someone else requires a license. Self-Insurance is actually a misnomer, it is basically an added charge that guarentees a no-questions-asked refund if the item(s) are lost or damaged. It should be renamed as Satisfaction Assurance fee with an explanation. Mine would include shipping refund To and From and a time limit for them and me. Something the Post Office DOESN'T offer for their over-inflated insurance costs.
----------------------------
RECIEVING SHIPMENTS FOR DUMMIES:
1. Just because it says $7.00 on the stamp DOESN'T MEAN IT ONLY COST $7.00 TO SHIP!
2. Just because it doesn't have pretty or cool stylized designs stamped all over the package DOESN'T MEAN IT ISN'T INSURED!
Number Two:
See how hard your car insurance company will laugh if you go to they at the end of the year and ask for your money back because you didn't have any accidents that year. You will go into their end-of-year Christmas Party as one of their parade of idiots stories.
Number Three:
Yeah, contact the USPS website because it wasn't insured through the PO, they also need their parade of idiots stories too.
.................................................
We call them our heroes...but we pay them like chumps
[ edited by mlecher on Dec 28, 2002 09:43 AM ]
[ edited by mlecher on Dec 28, 2002 09:46 AM ]
posted on December 28, 2002 09:57:42 AM new
I read these repelies & see rhat there a lot cheap gyp artists out there. On more than one occasion I have eaten up to a dollar in postage & ins. charges. If I say the item is insured, you can bet it is. LKellco has every right to complain. She paid $3.00 for insurance &Y didn't get it. It makes no difference whether the item was damaged or not, she paid for something of value & didn't receive it. There a lot of you that I would never want do business with because of your cheap ways of doing business. You the ones who give the rest of the honest sellers a black eye.
posted on December 28, 2002 10:14:33 AM new
Fetish,
I disagree with you on the ebay bond thing. I do not insure my packages through myself because it is illegal, in this state, to sell insurance without a license (even though I hate the licenseing concept). I do understand the tendency to want to do it. It is an easy way to make some extra money and is a great way to have excellent customer service (mandatory insurance means everything can be easily handled.)
I don't know if it was already mentioned or not, but I had read months ago here that there are 3rd party insurance carriers that you can buy insurance for you packages through. The insurance wouldn't necessarily be listed on the packaging, (not shipper insurance) but the package would be insured none-the-less.
posted on December 28, 2002 10:43:38 AM new
sanmar....
Where, in the name of God, was the proof the package wasn't insured????? Read the statements in RECEIVING SHIPMENTS FOR DUMMIES! It was insured/assured and you nor the Supreme Court Justices can prove any different.
The lack of pretty stamps is not proof. Even the PO has an insurance method were stamps are not required, you just fill out a form.
And SELF-INSURANCE is not illegal. Repeat this multiple times until it sinks in.
SELF-INSURANCE IS NOT ILLEGAL AND DOES NOT REQUIRE A LICENSE. ONLY WHEN YOU INSURE SOMEBODY ELSE DOES IT REQUIRE A LICENSE
AGAIN
SELF-INSURANCE IS NOT ILLEGAL AND DOES NOT REQUIRE A LICENSE. ONLY WHEN YOU INSURE SOMEBODY ELSE DOES IT REQUIRE A LICENSE
.................................................
We call them our heroes...but we pay them like chumps
[ edited by mlecher on Dec 28, 2002 10:48 AM ]
posted on December 28, 2002 01:42:19 PM new
mlecher WHAT IS YOUR PROBLEM with the reference to dummies and idiots? If you read my info correctly, you will see that I stated I took the box to the post office and was told BY THEM that it was not insured. Where did contacting the USPS website come into this? I never said anything about carrying this further with the post office at their website.
I also did NOT complain about the shipping cost as I agreed to pay the $15.00. Maybe you don't care if you pay for services not given, but I do.
At least I haven't shown ignorance in calling people ignorant names. I'll leave that talent to you.
posted on December 28, 2002 02:02:28 PM newI feel if you pay for the insurance, then you should get it.
What makes you think you didn't get it? The seller would most likely have refunded you your money had it been lost or damaged.
There are sellers that "self-insure" and are ready to accept any losses if they have to pay out. Why do people assume they are being shady?
Like it has already been said, you knew the costs before you bid. Does it really matter who insures it? What's the difference if USPS gets the money or if the seller does, as long as they pay out if anything happens?
posted on December 28, 2002 02:04:08 PM new
Kellco,
I don't think anyone is meaning to call you any names, they just don't put there meaning in a nice way.
Your original question was .....should you contact ebay and let them know what has taken place...............I say no, dont do that also I would suggest since you learned the hard way that in the future you question the seller as to how they will ship, the cost of shipping, and will they insured with the post office. all these are your right to ask the seller and if they are upstanding in there business they will gladly answer all your questions.
But for NOW, let it go, and I would suggest that you don't report him..........just chalk it up to a lesson well learned.
This thread is a learning place for most of us, and it's always helpful to hear how someone else thinks, but don't get offended, because I am sure it was not meant to offend you.
Lets all be nice and helpful, that's why we come here. We all need a helping hand at times, not a stepping on.
posted on December 29, 2002 06:12:59 PM new
No kellco, that reporting fraud to USPS was from several other posters who want you to put the thumbscrews on the seller to get your $3.00 back because the package arrived safely without pretty stamps and things.
Libra63:
I will agree, it you pay for insurance you should get USPS insurance. If you don't and the item is lost or damage you are out of luck. Right in the TOS it says insurance cost is $3.00. I suppose we have to email anyone that says that to be sure that that is what they mean. I don't think so. If is says insurance $3.00 I want to see insurance stamped on my package and if it isn't I want a refund or I would like an explination as to why they decided not to insure it.
Linda_K:
Kellco - If the sellers TOS stated $3.00 for USPS insurance and you did not receive that insurance, your best bet would be to contact the USPS Fraud Website. You can do so online. They might be more able to help than ebay will be.
They want sellers to purchase over-priced and practically worthless insurance for your packages simply because they have stamps.
you will see that I stated I took the box to the post office and was told BY THEM that it was not insured.
CORRECTION! It wasn't insured by THEM. In ither words, they are absolutely clueless if it was insured by someone else.
Maybe you don't care if you pay for services not given, but I do.
Let me guess....since the package arrived safely, it wasn't insured. I suppose if it arrived damaged and the seller immediately refunded everything, you would only then call it insured????? Explain to me what insurance means to YOU. Just because Mutual of Omaha didn't put ink on you package? See statement two in Receiving Shipments for Dummies.
Why Dummies??? It is a series of Guides put out by IDG for those who just don't get it which breaks things down into their most kindergarten and elemantary steps ans information. Unfortunately, many STILL don't get it.
What get me the most is that a thread similar to this comes 2-3 times a week and the participants spend volumes explaining the the original poster how the seller ripped them off and should be taken out and shot because they are they spawn of Saddam Hussein. Simply because in THEIR OPINION based only upon THEIR SITUATION using THEIR PSYCHIC ABILITIES they have determined to the exact penny the actual cost of postage, handling and insurance FOR SOMEBODY ELSE.
Meanwhile, some innocent seller is having his reputation belittled and slammed even though he may have lost money on the S&H. I see Stupid, vindictive people.
.................................................
We call them our heroes...but we pay them like chumps
Since the package you received was NOT insured, I do believe you have a rightful claim to have your funds refunded. Again, if it were me, I'd email the seller and asked one more time for your ins. refund. I would also ask why insurance was not purchased when paid for.