hertson
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posted on January 9, 2003 08:23:23 PM new
PayPal Damon please help. My problem is that I shipped a buyer an item a couple months ago. I shipped to their verified address and got signature confirmation that they received the item. I just got an email from Paypal that they are doing a credit card chargeback on grounds that the "item was not as described", which is completely false, the item was exactly as described. No worries, I shipped to his verified address and had signature proof so I thought I was covered from such fraud, but when I called paypal with this info they said no, their seller protection does not cover this at all even with signature proof of delivery. After reviewing PayPals Seller protection terms for a 5th time, I don't see how this can be true at all. So basicaly even though I shipped an item which was exactly as described to this buyers verified address with signature confirmation I am out over $1,000.
PaypalDamon, or anybody else, please help. Please email me at [email protected] and help me straighten this out.
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sanmar
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posted on January 9, 2003 08:26:06 PM new
P/PDamon is no longer on AW. Go on Ebay & go into Community, look for PayPal, thats where you ewill find him. Just did this last night.
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kozersky
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posted on January 9, 2003 09:10:01 PM new
What has happened to the item you sold? Who has possession? Sounds like a trip to a lawyer's office and then to the police.
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paloma91
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posted on January 9, 2003 09:29:19 PM new
and what happened to damon? he isnt with "the firm" anymore?
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Libra63
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posted on January 9, 2003 09:40:06 PM new
Evidently he is with the firm, but I doubt if the firm comes to this board. We are not important enough....
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paloma91
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posted on January 9, 2003 09:44:35 PM new
He used to come to this board all the time. I wonder what happened??!!?!
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sparkz
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posted on January 9, 2003 09:48:44 PM new
Technically, he is now an employee of Ebay. He goes where they tell him.
The light at the end of the tunnel will turn out to be an oncoming train.
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rarriffle
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posted on January 10, 2003 02:02:48 AM new
this wasn't a car engine by any chance?
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anothertreasure
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posted on January 10, 2003 05:17:37 AM new
I've had a couple of chargebacks from MC/Visa. My B&M store is on the internet and I ship internationally. Items are brand new, proof of delivery is in hand. The statement comes and voila - buyer called MC/Visa, complained and I get the chargeback.
There's no recourse other than small claims court. There's no protection for the seller, I've been told, since there is no signature on the charge slip (I just write "internet purchase" on it). I called our bankcard company and they confirmed my fears.
There must be some recourse for the retailer and I'm trying to find out what it is. There's a lot of small print in those agreements.
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Twelvepole
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posted on January 10, 2003 05:51:27 AM new
What has happened to the item you sold? Who has possession? Sounds like a trip to a lawyer's office and then to the police.
I THINK YOU WILL FIND ALL THE BUYER HAS TO DO IS TELL THE SELLER TO COME AND GET THEIR ITEM AND THAT IS ALL.
CC COMPANIES ARE FOR THEIR CLIENTS/CUSTOMERS AND REALLY COULD CARE LESS FOR SELLERS ( AS IT SHOULD BE) BECAUSE FOR EVERY ONE HORROR STORY THAT COMES HERE WHERE THE SELLER MAYBE THE ONE BEING WRONGED, THERE ARE 100'S OF WHERE THE BUYER IS BEING RIPPED OFF.
ACTUALLY THOUGH, I THOUGHT THERE WAS AN ELECTRONIC SIGNATURE NOW AVAILABLE ON THE INTERNET?
AIN'T LIFE GRAND... 
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stopwhining
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posted on January 10, 2003 06:29:27 AM new
paypal does not cover content/quality issue.
thats why they offer insurance to buyer to cover content/quality,which buyer has to pay.
i do believe he has to return the item .
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hertson
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posted on January 10, 2003 08:05:04 AM new
Thanks for the advice everyone. The buyer still has the product and is ignoring my emails, so I don't think he has any intention of returning it. I do have signature proof that he received it, unfortunately that doesnt help me with his "not as described" complaint. The item is brand new and exactly as described which is making this so frustrating (no its not an engine). Stopwhining, you are correct, Paypal doesn't get involved with content/quality...unless the buyer does a chargeback, then you are pretty much SOL.
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stormypetr
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posted on January 10, 2003 08:09:21 AM new
Damon quit coming here because it became nothing but Paypal bashing. You can still contact him at [email protected] last I heard. He will try to help you.
I don't keep any money in my Paypal account for exactly this reason. I also don't use the same email address as I do for Ebay because I don't want people to be able to send payments to a restricted account, if that were to happen. From what I understand, had the person filed with Paypal they probably would have ruled in your favor but if the person does a chargeback with their credit card, it is tough luck for you. The credit card company has taken the money back and Paypal can either accept that the money is gone or take it, in turn, from you. Which do you think they will do?
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jensmome
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posted on January 10, 2003 08:14:18 AM new
Under both VISA and MasterCard regulations, the buyer must show proof that the item was returned or that a good faith effort to return it was refused. Unfortunately, you are dealing with PayPal and not directly with a bank. It's now your word vs. his word. Try to get in touch with Daemon. It's your only chance.
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shop4shoes
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posted on January 10, 2003 08:36:56 AM new
Hertson: That is really stinky.
If he does a sucessful chargeback, I would contact the police and file a complaint. I'll bet you get your item back then. Good Luck.
My cousin had a sucessful chargeback against him, for an internet purchase. The customer claimed that he had returned the goods and did not get a refund. He gave a copy of a certified mail receipt as proof. It turned out that he had altered the receipt, but the card company never checked to see if it was legit.
The guy was in the same state (Florida) as my cousin. My cousin filed a police report, explained about the altered mail receipt and gave a description of what had not been returned.
A few days later the cops call him. The address that the items had been sent to was a small boutique. Some of the "returned" items were actually in the store. The owner claimed that he had gotten the items from another supplier. My cousin got the items back anyway and the guy paid him for the items that he had already sold.
Okay, Okay, I am getting to the good part...
My cousin has a little stamp made up with his store's initials. He stamps all items with this, using ink that is only visible under black light. When the items were put under black light the mark showed up. He got that tip from you guys and he has never sold anything in an auction.
SEE, this board is a valuble resource to EVERYONE. 
SIDE NOTE: He mentioned what happened to his processor and they contacted Mastercard and Visa. The boutique owner had his merchant account suspended for fraud.
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ok4leather
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posted on January 10, 2003 08:53:40 AM new
Your going to have to sue him or her in small claims in the state where they live - get a judgement and then you can go after their bank accounts or real property thru the court. Also Clarkhoward.com is a great place to look for resources.
Good Luck,
Ed
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Greengate
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posted on January 10, 2003 09:54:22 AM new
Can you issue a "Call Tag" via UPS? Maybe he is just lazy or waiting for verification of the chargeback on his credit card statement. Hopefully this is just a nit picker and not a rip off artist.
I believe you can file a complaint with the credit card company which would need to be through PayPal as they are a 3rd party service. I filed complaints with my Merchant card holder on several charge backs and they were all resolved. They were all charges that the customer forgot they purchased and I did have signatures.
No signature is a real issue with the card services.
The next step is to send a "certified" letter to the buyer requesting that the item be returned and give a specific DATE that is reasonable for the return of the item. Keep it simple, business like and state the facts. This is a document you will need if you have to take this to court.
Wait at least 30 days, no response should initiate another letter "certified" stating the legal action will be taken for theft if the item is not returned by a specific date.
The reason for these letters is to show the court or legal authorities that you made reasonable attempts to collect a debt.
In some states the Sheriff can be enlisted to pay a visit to the home if the value is over a specific amount.
The State Statutes can be looked up on the internet.
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shop4shoes
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posted on January 10, 2003 10:07:23 AM new
In some states the Sheriff can be enlisted to pay a visit to the home if the value is over a specific amount.
In my cousin's case the amount was over a $1000. Apparently they had a detective that was big on solving internet crime. I don't think they would have been so gung-ho it were only $50.
Hertson, I would definately try the police route, since you are out of so much money.
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trai
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posted on January 10, 2003 10:31:43 AM new
hertson
I have to ask you how long after payment did you ship the goods? Was payment made as a single payment or Multiple?
My advice to you is this, anything over a $100.00 dollars I will only take bidpay, or postal money order and bank draft.
Paypal did not start the chargeback, your buyer did by filing a complaint with their bank. Do email damon direct and sent all info to him.
Their so called sellers protection should cover you, just keep at them.
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stormypetr
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posted on January 10, 2003 12:22:27 PM new
What jensmome said is correct. If you had your own merchant account, you would have had a chance to prove that you are the wronged party and gotten the chargeback reversed. Paypal does not want to act as a middle man in these situations. It is easier for them to just take the money from you.
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stopwhining
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posted on January 10, 2003 12:32:30 PM new
having your own merchant account does not guarantee you will win chargeback.
signature delivery is not enough,you need that signature on charge receipt.
but in this case he has admitted he has the item,now the question is why is he still sitting on it??
paypal is good for small amount,with 1000 dollars,ask for money order or bidpay.
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