posted on March 5, 2003 09:34:11 AM new
Ebay is being held up by the full time dealers with something worth selling. The occasional seller is basially out of the picture. When the internet taxes finally hit it will do more damage to the full time seller rather than the occasional seller. Taxes must be collected by estabilished business while the hobby seller will not collect taxes. This will severelly hurt online auctions.
posted on March 5, 2003 09:38:55 AM new
You gotta be kidding!! There is no way on earth that most of the eBay sellers are going to collect taxes. The only ones that will have to, are the big B & M stores i.e. WalMart, Target, etc. No one has the manpower to check the millions of sellers from all over the world.
posted on March 5, 2003 09:49:34 AM new
The software already exists to collect the taxes from US buyers. There are several large B&Ms that are now collecting sales taxes from every buyer regardless of the state they live in on their web sales, whether they have a physical presence in the state or not.
38 States have joined together to align their sales tax rates to make it even easier to collect sales taxes on the net.
The states need the money and they will sooner or later tax sales on eBay. I don't think it will hurt sales, but it is coming.
posted on March 5, 2003 10:10:45 AM new All these predictions of gloom and doom on eBay's horizon. I really hate to break this to dbest, but the sky isn't falling, in fact it doesn't even look overcast on eBay's horizon for many years. Here's an article that isn't too old:
posted on March 5, 2003 10:18:25 AM new
Ebay is king right now. Taxes are not going to destroy. The only thing that will destroy eBay is itself or if another auction sites comes along. The only company that can do that is probably Mictosoft.
Earn extra cash:
http://www.click-4-cash.com/paidmail/site/index.php?refid=2450
posted on March 5, 2003 10:40:22 AM new
I think that only sellers that are already charging sales taxes will be affected... don't see us small hobby sellers being rquired to collect them...
posted on March 5, 2003 01:32:06 PM new
What Im not understanding is how you small hobby sellers get you're merchandise without a license.How do you buy you're merchandise and then sell it for way below wholesale prices? You're not making any profit so why bother? Do you guys highjack trucks take all the merchandise and then start the bidding at .99 cents? That is whats really hurts sellers that are trying to make a living.
Its also what is going to put the companys that manuafacture the merchandise out of business.NOBODY IS MAKING ANY PROFIT.We wind up having to undersell and we wind up paying more for the stocks then what we made.I see a big problem in the future with this issue not the taxes.
posted on March 5, 2003 02:18:48 PM new
bigcity, or should I say bigmouth? you are way wrong...not making a profit? If I can't make at least $5.00 for every $1.00 I spend, I don't bother. and I am a very small time hobby seller....
I don't sell cds or videos or dvds...I sell collectibles and jewelry mostly....things that ebay aren't flooded with...
if you are not making enough money then maybe you need to give the junk your selling to goodwill and buy a product somebody wants
and please...next time save your insults for when your shaving and talking to yourself in the mirror.
I was speeking of hobbysellers in general.I also do make plenty of money I was just saying that if the hobbysellers increase serious sellers wont make as much money as they could be....
posted on March 5, 2003 02:33:39 PM new
Oh yea,their was one question directed at you.If you're not paying or collecting taxes. Then that means you dont have a license.Just out of curiosity,how and where do you get you're stocks?
posted on March 5, 2003 04:02:43 PM new
Here's the deal - I really felt that the huge increases in shipping was going to hurt online sales a lot. Priority mail shipping almost doubled between 2001 and 2003. My sales are not really affected. I've come to the conclusion that people look at the final bid price, and don't really calculate the postage. IF taxes become the norm (and I don't believe that will happen anytime soon, and for a very long time it will only affect very large companies) I think bidders will just pay it, and it is not going to really affect things too much.
posted on March 5, 2003 04:50:15 PM new
There are many full time dealers that has a brick and mortor presence in some state that sell on ebay. On reason they do is because they can sell big ticket items over the internet and not charge taxes to those who buy from them out of state. People buy these big items inorder to save from paying taxes. An internet tax would discourge the seller and the buyer at the same time. If you are going to pay $500 to $1000 for an item I believe you will calculate the tax before you bid. A dealer will think twice before listing such items because they believe nobody will pay such high taxes. think about it.
posted on March 5, 2003 05:02:21 PM new
Bigcity... I only sell to make a profit... of course I don't list 100's of auctions a week, so I don't need a major source for my supply... well lets just say estate sales, local auctions and garage sales do me just fine.
posted on March 5, 2003 05:36:56 PM new
Very good point dbest.Ive never heard of internet taxes till now.Although if their is an internet tax that will take effect then most people will see no reason to buy off the internet from websites.Whats the point in paying shipping fees and taxes.
posted on March 5, 2003 10:24:34 PM new
For all of you sellers who mentioned that you buy items from Goodwill, Salv. Army, etc. and then resell it on eBay, do you need to have a sellers permit to do that?
Does Goodwill & Salv. Army charge you sales tax for the items you buy from them (like they do all their customers), or do you not have to pay the taxes if you show them a sellers permit? I'm just curious as to how it works.
posted on March 5, 2003 11:17:15 PM new
Salvation Army and Goodwill do not charge Sales Tax to anyone "period" in our state because they are a non-profit org.
posted on March 5, 2003 11:36:26 PM new
Here in Oregon we don't pay anyone sales tax (fortunately) but I have gone to Goodwill in California and they do not charge sales tax to anyone since they are nonprofit.
I wonder what would happen if you went to Walmart and tried that though. I never purchased retail to resell on ebay. I know I can technically go to someplace like Sears in other states like California and not pay sales tax if I am taking my purchases back to Oregon. I asked a clerk about it last time I was there, and got a really blank stare. I figured for the few dollars I would have saved, it was not worth the hassle to deal with it.
posted on March 6, 2003 02:41:15 AM new
here in Ohio we pay sales tax on everything we buy..no I do not have a dealers license and I stock in the same way twelvepole does.
posted on March 6, 2003 03:38:25 AM new
>>I wonder what would happen if you went to Walmart and tried that though.
Around here, big stores, particularly if they tend to sell a lot of craft supplies, paper goods, etc. are used to dealing with this situation. There are many church/school groups that have tax-exempt certificates, as well as many small business/craft people who are buying for resale. One store nearby had a special checkout line for these people. If you are interested in doing it, just ask a manager next time.
Eventually, states will finally find a way of getting an internet sales tax or better state use tax enforcement. (This had a lengthy discussion in another thread here a few weeks ago).
Just saw on the news that Massachusetts went to the on-line cigarette sellers and asked them to supply customer info on shipments to Massachusetts. Two of them did, and that state has sent tax bills to the people who bought - they showed one guy with a $400 tax bill.
If they can strong arm someone like ebay into making their information available to revenue departments they have all the information they need for both seller and customer.
posted on March 6, 2003 05:25:53 AM newJust saw on the news that Massachusetts went to the on-line cigarette sellers and asked them to supply customer info on shipments to Massachusetts. Two of them did, and that state has sent tax bills to the people who bought - they showed one guy with a $400 tax bill.
That wasn't a sales tax. The state was collecting a tobacco tax from the people that imported the cigarettes into the state. That's not the same thing as collecting a sales tax from a merchant outside the state. States can't do that. One state tried that in the 60's and the Supreme Court ruled on the side of the merchant.
posted on March 6, 2003 07:18:51 AM new
Whether a sales tax or a tobacco excise tax, the interesting issue is that these companies were under no legal obligation to supply the information (which is why only two of the many out there did so).
Whether these sales taxes will be collected under current law or under laws not yet enacted, states relying on sales tax revenue will not ignore this issue, and neither will the federal government, since they will be hit to make up shortfalls.
Just as with copyright issues, with old technologies, it wasn't as big a problem. You might not bother driving 400 miles to save the sales tax on an item, but if you can do it with your mouse, why not. It's coming some day - only two sure things, you know...
posted on March 6, 2003 07:32:55 AM new
Can someone please educate me on the topic of sellers permit and taxes? Who needs to have a sellers permit in order to sell on eBay, and do you collect taxes from customers within your state and then pay that back to the gov at the end of the year?
posted on March 6, 2003 07:59:42 AM new
Can't speak for other states but in Oklahoma, I have to remit sales tax monthly for any sales made to customers who reside in Oklahoma. Imagine the paperwork if you have to complete tax forms for each state for all sales you made in the past month.
posted on March 6, 2003 08:07:41 AM new
The only way this would really work is if they made it financially rewarding for small merchants, i.e. gave them a couple percent of the sales. I know when I was in California, they gave me something like a quarter of one percent, it really did not make a big difference (even though I did collect sales tax) but if they give me something like 2%, that is a different story.
posted on March 6, 2003 08:10:16 AM new
I don't understand why people call this "Internet tax." It is sales and use tax. The same problem existed with mail order companies long before the Internet became a place of commerce. It's only that because the Internet has become such a market that the original problem became more noticeable.
I was talking about this at least 20 years ago. When the State of NY kept harrassing me for sales taxes I had already paid, I sent a letter to the Commissioner of Taxation explaining that if his office continued to harrass me, I would stop collecting sales tax completely and I could do so legally. All I would have to do was send my local customers to a friend in New Jersey and he would send his local customers to me. All business would be done via mail order. The customers would be happy and the only losers would be the states of NY and NJ. After that letter, I got a phone call from his office and the problem was finally resolved. That letter ended up being printed in several magazines.
The real problem is the greed of the states. This could have been resolved years ago if all the states got together and picked a fair amount like 5% and charged it across the board. I was talking recently to a Washington Post reporter and when I mentioned this, he said that idea had come up at one of the taxation meetings and some states (like NY) rejected it because they were not going to lower their tax rate. I asked him, "Don't they realize that 5% of 100% is better than 8.25% of 10%?" Then again, NY has one of the lowest math scores in the country.
Based on posts here, some people are taking certain things for granted. They are assuming that only the big sellers will have to collect sales tax. If this plan goes into effect (I'm sure it's years away, but since some big companies are pushing for it in addition to the states, it will happen eventually), unless you conduct your business entirely in cash (difficult to do on the Net), there will always be some record of your sales. And if the states can show that you did ANY business and did not send in your tax, they will have the right to go after you. And if you're thinking,
"I'm just a little guy, they won't waste time on me." There are a lot of "little guys" who thought the same thing about the IRS and other government agencies. Sometimes they deliberately pick on the little guy just to set an example. I was a little guy with a brand new business when they picked on me. And even though they were wrong and I proved it repeatedly, they wouldn't let up.
By the way, the states can and will go to a dealer and request records of sales made out of state. And they will send bills to the customers for the tax plus penalties and interest. I have a friend working in a big mail order electronics firm that had this happen. His customers tried to sue the firm, claiming that they weren't told that they had a duty to pay the tax. (It is not voluntary. It is mandatory, just that the seller doesn't collect it.) They lost. A judge ruled that they had to pay the tax plus interest plus penalties and the store was not responsible. Ignorance of the law is no excuse.
Yes, it happens rarely. But just because you weren't caught going through three red lights, doesn't mean you won't pay for it when you go through the fourth.
posted on March 6, 2003 08:22:37 AM new
You are right, it is a sales tax. I still think enforcement is going to be a really tough and probably impossible. Sure, it is easy enough to look at Walmart's or The Gap's records, but a small seller who made $5000 last year, is the state of Wyoming going to take the time to make sure they get their 87 cents in taxes? The cost for enforcement would kill any profit they can make from small sellers. I do see sellers in this scenario collecting all taxes, and only paying some or none of them. It could get interesting. In the long run, it is important to realize that this is NOT an out of pocket expense for the seller, just an extra fee for the buyer. I suspect that if it is universal, it will not impact buying too much. People in Canada pay a tax on everything, from going to an internet cafe to buying stamps at the post office. I suspect they are not happy about it, but just deal with it.
posted on March 6, 2003 08:25:00 AM new
I am guessing that internet taxes will be assessed based on your subscription to an internet provider. I don't see the feds adding a federal sales tax. I do see them adding a federal excise tax for your access to the internet though. This would be very similar to what you pay to use your telephone ($12 a month for phone service + $18 a month in taxes-lol). Opening up a sales tax on the internet is a headache that the US gov't has never wanted to deal with. It would open up tons of lawsuits, and would crumble the entire interstate system. Tax could be then applied to each long distance phone call made, to shipments by freight, etc. Let's not forget that those big corporate giants who do business on the internet will definately lobby against any measure. With a Dip-S**t running the country like we have now, his pockets are being fed by the corporations, and the economy is too unstable to do anything like that.
posted on March 6, 2003 10:33:02 AM new
This is to answer a question RE: sellers permit. #1, You do not need it to sell on eBay. #2, It lets me buy packing supplies & merchandise w/o paying sales tax. #3, I do collect sales tax on items sold in CA, unless the buyer has a sellers permit. I do not have to collect sales tax on transactions out of state.
All these predictions of gloom and doom on eBay's horizon. I really hate to break this to dbest, but the sky isn't falling, in fact it doesn't even look overcast on eBay's horizon for many years. Here's an article that isn't too old:
