posted on March 14, 2003 05:58:21 AM new
Before I start let me say I detest what Ebay has become. They are now a big business, with a few that are sucking the life's blood out of the company. All in the name of progress.
Several years ago I worked in the manufactured housings industry (mobile homes). I had to work with a lot of park owners. Most were fine people others were just plain scum.
Their big play was to fill the park, raise the lot rent and re-mortgage the business. Invest as little as possible, raise the lot rent again and re-mortgage.
Most of these owners would sell the homes the people brought. When they couldn't pay they would repo and resell or rent to fill the park again. This went on over and over till the park was a shamble of non paying renters and abandoned homes. Owners would file bankruptcy and start all over again.
I see the same mind set at Ebay. They don't care for the users. There's many that made the mistake of trying to make a living off them so they Raise the fees. Some will leave new ones will come. kind of like the California Gold Rush. They changed formats in several categories. Cost some of us a ton of lost sales and reprograming. Told us it was to make the system easier for the user. Never was.
I still use them. They are still the biggest game in town. I use them as I would any other tool. I don't paid them the $500 to $1000 a month any more because I've found alternatives.
I believe that one day, in the near future Ebay will stumble and fall. I pity the stock holders. especially the newer ones.
Ditto. The unchanging mind set that Ebay's management has will eventually kill it. It's something along the line of "Let's wring this sucker for all we can get, no holds barred, damn the sellers and buyers", without any apparent thought as to their (business) relationship with those who use the venue to bring Ebay money.
I know many of us would like to see more of an attitude of "How can we create a the best possible online auction venue, and if we build it, they will come". Ebay has clearly that they do not and will not cater to sellers in order to increase income.
The very fact that they allow scam artists to rip off thousands from their buyers shows they care nothing for the buyers as well.
Ebay is only interested in making as much money for as long as they can and covering it's own a$$. Any business does this, and should. But Ebay goes over the line. Ebay is stepping on buyers and sellers alike like a stupid giant trodding on those who feed him. the giant's perceptions are too limited to see both the long and short term consequences of his actions.
I have some grips with eBay too -- namely customer service gripes with respect to sellers. BUT......
Don't you people have anything else better to do than to sit around and pontificate on when eBay will collapse? Despite the fact that the company keeps growing and growing and growing?
Time to be honest with yourselves -- you hate large businesses (Strange Behavior for business owners -- but I digress) you wanted eBay to a small and "quaint" but the owners had other ideas.
Get over it.
There will always be sellers out there who figure out a way to make eBay work for them -- mostly because there will be buyers coming to eBay -- remember, the buyers drive the growth -- not the sellers. -- As long as there are buyers willing to spend, there will be a seller trying to make a buck off of them.
Penny stock options have nothing to do with whether or not eBay will crumble in a few years -- competition does -- at the moment, eBay doesn't have a solid competitor -- and there are buyers lining up to spend money on the web site.
If we're going to discuss whether or not eBay will last, the discussion should center around on which competitor has the ability to put them out of business....not penny stocks.
The fact that you no longer like eBay, its policies or its size or how much money its making -- has no bearing on how long the site can survive.
eBay's survival depends on whether or not buyers still want to spend money on eBay and whether or a competitor can put them out of business.
All that's happening now is bellyaching and the weeding out of weaker sellers.
posted on March 14, 2003 02:07:28 PM new
"the discussion should center around on which competitor has the ability to put them out of business."
It doesn't have to be a competitor. It could be one of many things.
The public is fickle. Take yourself for example. Your say your a buyer. Look at the changes in retail in the last 5 years. Kmart hit the skids. who's next?
Who the hell's talking about penny stocks?
Do you work for Ebay?
Amen,
watch how quickly things change,
Reverend Colin
posted on March 14, 2003 02:29:27 PM new
"the discussion should center around on which competitor has the ability to put them out of business."
>>It doesn't have to be a competitor. It could be one of many things.
The public is fickle. Take yourself for example. Your say your a buyer. Look at the changes in retail in the last 5 years. Kmart hit the skids. who's next? <<
Kmart hit the skids due to ruinous competitionm from Wall Mart & Target. Both companies ran significantly more efficient operations as well as cleaner and brighter stores. In addition to that, they did a FAR better job of locating its stores near people who would be more likely to shop there.
One of Wall Mart's strengths is that its stores are typically located in Blue Collar or Working Class areas, (I've grew up and live in a upper-middle class area -- and didn't see a Wal Mart until I went to college in an area that was low income -- I live in North Jersey and I don't even know where the nearest Wal Mart is, but I can easily find a target --)
One of K-Mart's mistakes was placing its stores in areas where people wouldn't want to admit they shopped there -- at least that has been my experience with taling to people about the local K-Mart.
Whereas as Target is called "Tar-Jay" because they present a more upscale image - and place their stores near more affluent customers.
E.g. Poor Business Strategy in addition to ruinouos competition hurt K-Mart. If Wal-Mart and Target didn't exist -- K-mart wouldn't be having problems.
Its pretty hard for a business to just collapse and fall without a serious competitior.
>Who the hell's talking about penny stocks?
I said Penny Stock Options -- a completely different animal than penny stocks. Furthermore, the initial post to this thread cited as evidence that eBay would collapse discussed said Penny Stock Options.
>Do you work for Ebay?
The above comment shows how misguided these discussions about eBay's pending collapse are (Particularly since they're not about ruinous competition, or poor business strategy) the discussion basically boils down to:
"eBay is a big company and making a lot of money and I don't like it, so that means they're going to fail"
"I don't like eBay -- so that must mean they're going to fail"
"eBay isn't catering to me enough, so that means they're going to fail"
This is a business issue -- your personal feelings have nothing to do with how successful a business is going to be.
Just because someone doesn't agree with you and presents valid arguments, doesn't mean I work for eBay -- which I don't. If you want to talk business -- than by all means, let's talk about BUSINESS -- not go into childish arguments about how our dislike for a company is going to determine whether or they succeed or say that people who disagree with us must work for eBay -- which I don't.
Hmm -- I recall a similar conversation several months ago, from someone starting an auction site who felt that me thinking his business model was flawed meant I worked for eBay.
posted on March 14, 2003 03:27:12 PM new
I don't hate big business. In 1998, I sold my company for six figures. It grossed between half and one quarter million in sales per year. Far from Ebay's size, but larger than the businesses I expect some of the posters here run. I'm sure I still didn't qualify as "big" business.
Despite the size of the company, we provided fast friendly personal service and were on a first name basis with nearly all of our clients. If we made a decision that negatively impacted our customers, such as an increase in service rates, we handled it in an amicable manner with our clients.
My point is that business, no matter the size, can treat their customers with care and concern. I don't mean hand holding. I talking about being real to their public and providing caring, helpful, efficient customer service. The whole attitude one receives from a company's employees overall filters down from the top. When the owner or boss doesn't care, you can bet customer service will be terrible. I've seen it happen every time.
Sony is big business. Last time I went to their factory servcie outlet, I got the best service I'd had anywhere in a long time. The employees were happy, cheeful, efficient, and caring. Same with Igloo. Company practices and policies in relation to the customer vary greatly from company to company.
Forgot to add that in my city, Wal-Mart is building superstores in upscale areas as fast as they can put them up. We have two fairly new ones, and at least one more on the way.
Wal-Marts used to only be built in small towns, then later outside the city limits of larger cities and towns. Now, they build them within the city limits, in the suburbs all over the largest cities, at least here in Texas. I have 5 within 7 miles of my home!
One is 3 miles away, east. They are building another one 3 miles from my house, north. They are both on Interstate 35. There is another about 3 miles further north on I-35, and another 8 miles yet further north on I-35. And I have two west.
Wal-Mart is pouring money into these stores because a lot more than blue-collar shop there. Have you ever priced DVD's, electronics, or small kitchen appliances there? I got a decent HP color printer in an emergency for $38.00. Not high-end certainly, but it does a decent job. Health and beauty items are usually lower than most competitors. If you want to pay more, fine. I'm not blue collar, but love to shop at Wal-Mart. I love saving money, and overall, I find their quality on many things quite good.
All Wal-Marts nationwide will be made into superstores, per management I have chatted with.
posted on March 15, 2003 03:44:33 AM new
pretegra345,
Just how often do you use Ebay? If you were a seller you would certainly see them in a different light.
For all the reasons you've pointed out in your Kmart statement, Ebay could go the same way.
I don't see the fall of Ebay but do think some of the business procedures are flawed.
Sure they have gained 2 for every one that's left, but how long will that last? I think they are on the top of this bell curve right about now. I believe they know it. That maybe one of the reasons for all the TV commercials.
I sell motorcycles and motorcycle parts mainly. When they introduced Ebay motors it was a mess. Cost many of the bigger dealers a ton because of the screw ups. They lost a lot of the big money auto dealers and many of the motorcycle people.
They constantly make major changes in different categories without warning or input from sellers.
I still think you work for or have stock in Ebay.
------------------------------------------
Patty,
I agree with your comments. Customer service is one of the essentials of business.
I still use Ebay but for only a few things a week instead of a 100 or so. I've found other places to list my items for a better price and longer term. Much of what I sell would be brought as needed.
posted on March 15, 2003 04:41:48 AM new
>>>Just how often do you use Ebay? If you were a seller you would certainly see them in a different light.<<<
I'm knocking on the door of being a Titanium Power Seller -- answer your question?
>>For all the reasons you've pointed out in your Kmart statement, Ebay could go the same way. <<
Re-read my previous statement -- eBay isn't in a case of ruinous competition and poor business strategy.
The customer service points are valid --- however, consider this:
Toyota & Honda consistantly rank near the BOTTOM customer service wise when ranking car manufacturer's according to how customers felt about the "dealer experience".
Saab & Infiniti often rank near the top -- meanwhile, Toyota & Honda sell more Accords & Camrys than Saab & Infiniti sell in total cards combined.
Its significantly more complicated than just customer service.
I agree that there are flaws, but I doubt these flaws will cause eBay to fail.
You can believe I work or own stock in eBay all you want -- but seriously, arguing with people on a discussion board wouldn't benefit me if I did.
I simply disagree with you --- don't be so arrogant to believe that the only way someone could disagree with you is if they worked for eBay.
posted on March 15, 2003 04:50:10 AM new
>>I don't hate big business. In 1998, I sold my company for six figures. It grossed between half and one quarter million in sales per year. Far from Ebay's size, but larger than the businesses I expect some of the posters here run. I'm sure I still didn't qualify as "big" business.
Despite the size of the company, we provided fast friendly personal service and were on a first name basis with nearly all of our clients. If we made a decision that negatively impacted our customers, such as an increase in service rates, we handled it in an amicable manner with our clients. <<
I run a larger company revenue wise (not to brag, just saying) and in the end, you can't please everyone and I think that's "part" of the gripes against eBay. I don't think they're perfect and I have some serious "issues" with them -- BUT a lot of the complaints are mostly due to the fact that eBay made billionaires out of a few people and that it isn't the small community it used to be.
>>My point is that business, no matter the size, can treat their customers with care and concern. I don't mean hand holding. I talking about being real to their public and providing caring, helpful, efficient customer service. The whole attitude one receives from a company's employees overall filters down from the top. When the owner or boss doesn't care, you can bet customer service will be terrible. I've seen it happen every time.<<
Yes, but there are people who have unreasonable expectations, for every reasonable complaint I read regarding eBay - I hear dozens of ludicrous ones.
>>Sony is big business. Last time I went to their factory servcie outlet, I got the best service I'd had anywhere in a long time. The employees were happy, cheeful, efficient, and caring. Same with Igloo. Company practices and policies in relation to the customer vary greatly from company to company.
The owners/managers have a definite choice.<<
True, but the customer service experience can vary from person to person, location to location.
Forgot to add that in my city, Wal-Mart is building superstores in upscale areas as fast as they can put them up. We have two fairly new ones, and at least one more on the way.
Wal-Marts used to only be built in small towns, then later outside the city limits of larger cities and towns. Now, they build them within the city limits, in the suburbs all over the largest cities, at least here in Texas. I have 5 within 7 miles of my home!
One is 3 miles away, east. They are building another one 3 miles from my house, north. They are both on Interstate 35. There is another about 3 miles further north on I-35, and another 8 miles yet further north on I-35. And I have two west.
Wal-Mart is pouring money into these stores because a lot more than blue-collar shop there. Have you ever priced DVD's, electronics, or small kitchen appliances there? I got a decent HP color printer in an emergency for $38.00. Not high-end certainly, but it does a decent job. Health and beauty items are usually lower than most competitors. If you want to pay more, fine. I'm not blue collar, but love to shop at Wal-Mart. I love saving money, and overall, I find their quality on many things quite good.
All Wal-Marts nationwide will be made into superstores, per management I have chatted with. <<<
They're not doing that everywhere -- just like in the Philadelphia Suburbs where I used to live -- here in North Jersey, you have to travel 20-30 miles to find one.
There are significant # of Middle & Upper-Middle class people who don't want to shop at Wal-Mart and/or would much rather shop at Target.
Now Wal-Marts have always been more prevelant down south and in the Mid West, so I suspect there would be less reistance to shopping at one in your neck of the woods, but Wal-Mart stores won't be successful everywhere.
posted on March 15, 2003 05:05:00 AM new
lol. I gotta say colin, I like the slogan: "We screw the other guy and pass the saving on to you."
at least you guys are passing the saving on...
I don't know how long ebay will last, but for now there's definitely no strong competition... although things seems to be slowing down, especially in some specific categories that I browse/sell.
I see the same things listed all the time, from the same seller... and I see sell through rates thats less than 25%.. I dont know how they're making money.
Getting quite messy, 50 different sellers selling the same thing. All have almost the same price but different shipping rates... and with TOS that are Bible lenghted...
I'm exaggerating a bit but yeah... I haven't seen any new sellers with new items lately...
as for Wal-Mart.. boy they sure grew. heh.
I shop there occasionally too, just cuz they're cheaper. ie: I went to their automotive section and picked up a hydraulic jack and 2 jackstands for like $40... it would have costed about $80 at Pepboys or Autozone... the price difference scares me.
posted on March 15, 2003 08:18:58 AM new
Just my 2 cents.
wal-mart and ebay are alot alike...
ebay may be there, and wal-mart is well on the way
both are looking down the road, and the goal is to have NO other company to buy from,, so you must buy from them
like ATT years ago...., get my drift
I know for a fact, that some of the stuff that walmart sells is BELOW wholesale cost, and even when they buy in bulk, they are losing money... but they will get you in the store to buy it, and hopefully you will buy other items while you are there.. and there for you will not be buying it from another store.
they put more bussiness out of work, then just big ones like k-mart... they put out all of the small mom and pop'splaces also... does walmart care.. hell no.. they have a goal in mind.. and they will do what it takes to see it threw....
lets see what happens in the next 10, 20, 50 yrs with walmart.... you can bet, that when they reach there goal,
They will NOT have the lower prices in town anymore, but they will have the only price in town, as everyone has has gone out....
posted on March 15, 2003 04:57:18 PM new
The reason MEG is SELLING Stock is easily found by clicking the link on forbes page to stock information on EBAY.
FOR CRYING OUT LOUD ITS AT 98 times price to earnings ratio.
Anyone who owns that stock should be selling it left and right. If you buy stock you should know what a p/e ratio is - otherwise you deserve losing all your money.
Ebay is a great comany. But no company has ever sustained such a large p/e ratio for any amount of time.
Ebays stock will tank but the company will go on as its already cash flow positive.
